Leyrann

The problem here is that the Nahel bond has only come into existence after humans arrived on Roshar, as the Nahel bond is an imitation of Honorblades, and the Honorblades (and Heralds) were called into existence by Honor because of the Desolations.

This is what I figured too. I thought he somehow forced (part of) the Stormfather to manifest as a Shardblade.

Good thing we're talking about her, not with her.

@PeterAhlstrom That's an amazing new avatar.

You're right. I totally messed up the Lashings. And that while I've been working with them so much recently lol... I still believe the Full Lashing is related to Air Pressure though. How else is something related to Pressure going to stick to something else? Pressure is, after all, a very blunt force compared to molecular scale. On a molecular level, pressure doesn't even matter. At all. If you would want to bind objects together on a molecular level, you'd need to create molecular bonds (this is what adhesion does in real life, by the way, but Brandon seems to have ignored real life chemistry when naming the Surges). If you want to use pressure, you can only do it through the pressure of the air in between (or not in between) the objects. That's simply the only way you're getting a solid to do anything special using pressure. My objection is two-fold. First, do we actually know, as in, have we seen on-screen, that Growth and Regrowth are not actually the same? And second, we know that healing in the Cosmere is filtered through how an object or person views it/him/herself (what the WoB is about), which means you cannot use it to make someone what that person is not, even if it is what that person could be. Having said that, I could see Growth being quite literally that - stimulating the growth of plants. I think the difference there, however, is that a plant sees itself as it's full-grown self, while a human does not, as humans tend to stop growing, contrary to plants. This would mean that Growth is plant-related, and Regrowth healing-related. I think that the things Shallan occasionally draws have more to do with her Memories, where the Memory she takes includes the Cognitive Realm as well as the Physical Realm. If it had been a more directly Surgebinding related ability, I think we'd have gotten a hint somewhere in the form of a drained sphere. I'll give you Transportation, that indeed looks like what you mentioned. I'd forgotten about that part of the book. However, I do think that there is another way to explain it than creating two different abilities. We know for a fact that the Cosmere is based in string theory, and it is not that much of a stretch to theorize that the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms are additional dimensions. Transportation might simply be "moving something or someone across certain dimensions", which could then be the three physical dimensions, but could also include a fourth dimension, bringing the target into a different Realm.

Cousin and step-brother. (also I actually forgot that they were step-brother and -sister now or I'd have mentioned that immediately; I was just confused)

You are right, we do not know when he lived, my bad on that. However, the whole idea behind writing The Way of Kings was that he walked to Urithiru, and I simply do not see Urithiru being older than the Knights Radiant, as Urithiru seems to have been built as home of the Knights Radiant.

No, no, NO! It is a Spiritual mechanic. It is in the same level as Connection, Investiture and Identity, and it seems to be related to a way to predict the future. Which also make sense with the name, as being able to predict the future would be "luck".

Uhhh..... -------------------------Random parents-------------------------------- Evi+Dalinar-------------------^----------------------Gavilar+Navani ---- | ------------------------------------------------------------ | ---------- Adolin and Renarin------------------------------------Jasnah and Elhokar

Guys... We know from the Feruchemcial chart that Fortune is a Spiritual thing on the same level as Connection, Identity and Investiture, three things we know are something everyone has some degree of and we know can be used for certain stuff. It appears to me, from how Fortune is used in this book and from knowing that Hoid uses something similar to Feruchemical Fortune to know where to go, that Fortune is related to predicting the future.

Fortune is... a thing in the Cosmere. It's a Feruchemical Spiritual ability, and from this I think that it is related to predicting the future. We also know Hoid uses something similar to Feruchemical Fortune to know where he's supposed to go. Edit: Ninja'd by not realizing there was a page 2.

Well... She didn't, in the end. And that probably makes her the first (after Renarin himself) to believe that, even though Glys is corrupted, it's all right. Edit: What makes him her brother-in-law by the way? Is she married to Adolin? Or is Adolin married to Elhokar?

I like the idea, but I don't think it would hold up. I would argue that the Full Lashing is actually a reduction in pressure between two objects, creating a vacuum to force two objects to stay attached to one another, which would mean that the core of a pull and a push would be the same. Similarly, I would argue that a Basic Lashing changes the user's gravity, while a Reverse Lashing changes someone else's gravity (hence why it's called a Reverse Lashing). As for Progression, we know by WoB that healing is filtered through the Cognitive Realm by how one sees him/herself, which makes it hard to "make the target what it could be". With Illumination, we haven't actually seen your proposal for the pull, and the same holds for Transportation (your example would make Transportation's pull the same as Gravitation's pull, by the way). If you look at it that way, each Surge actually has only one way in which it works. I do want to say though, that I really believe there are ways to categorize the Surges, and it is something I am very much working on myself. I just don't think that this is the way.

Maybe it's better to just discuss this in the Mayalaran thread? Interesting idea, though.

He said "I am Unity", but I felt like that referred more to the moment and combining the Three Realms to form the Perpendicularity than anything else.

According to certain theories, that's all magic...

I... don't think he's at shard-level of power. Yet. Yet.

I wouldn't truly call Dalinar "something different", but I do think he indeed kind-of sorta ascended on a much smaller scale than what happens in Mistborn. I also touched upon it in this thread, and honestly it's my fault for creating two threads that are so similar... I'd argue we're still looking at Dalinar here, but he's gotten a bit of a powerup.

Yup, that's me! And I figured Guidance would be a good name, also considering that Odium seems to be more about Passion than just hate.

Agreed. This feels like a clear case of Occam's Razor to me. I don't believe Adolin would say his oaths off-screen, he's too important a character for that, and additionally the reviving of Maya (which I would assume is a part of it) would be an extremely important event, worthy of being a part of a climax of one of the parts of a book if not the full book's climax. I think that Maya got kind of a little bit alive because Adolin truly started seeing her as a being in Shadesmar, and also because they were together for a while in Shadesmar.

Remember that the Recreance happened before the Shattering though. Additionally, Nohadon lived during the very last Desolation, so if the Heralds were wary of the Knights Radiant until they said oaths they would always have been wary of the Knights Radiant, simple as that, so that doesn't make sense. Oh and one last thing, close to the end Desolations happened extremely fast - we have confirmation that the last Desolation happened within a year after the one before that. I don't believe there were wars with other Surgebinders in between - the Desolations would be too fresh on everyone's minds.

I believe the only case we have on that is Scadrial, though.

I disagree that LGBT and age difference are in any way similar problems. LGBT is "is it acceptable to go against biological sex?" while age difference is simple squick of "you're having a relationship with someone who could be your child/parent". But as I said before, I don't think that it is even possible to get people to agree on wheter or not the age difference is too much, and in my opinion it should not play a role in this discussion, as it will undoubtly take over the thread and keep doing so, while it does not actually look at the characters as characters, and therefore doesn't actually discuss them as a couple; it only discusses what age difference is appropriate and what age difference isn't.

Let me expand on that: It appears like every single Order has an easier time learning their "first" Surge than they do their "second" Surge, in the order that we know the Surges. I think that, so far, only Dalinar doesn't hold to this rule.

My question after this part: But is he?