wotbibliophile

@The One Who Connects I really hate Szeth. I do not want to attribute any positive characteristic to him. To be honorable sounds like a positive so I categorically refuse to attribute it to him. In my defense, Szeth fails to honor his orders to kill Dalinar, both times he either runs away or gives up. He does not fulfill this obligation therefore he is not honorable.

I think Jasnah is still on topic because she is a romantic interest of Shallan. I have been thinking that Veil might still flirt with Kaladin because she will claim Shallan is married but she is not. But maybe Shallan will avoid Kaladin altogether like she sort of implied she would to Adolin. Instead she suddenly gets super flirty with Jasnah and Jasnah just won't get it because Jasnah does not pick up on some cues.

I had to pick other. Neither of my choices was an option. I cannot decide between Dalinar and Szeth. I hate them both. If their chapters were removed from all the books I would be very happy. I think it is silly to say Szeth is honorable. He knew what he was doing was wrong and he still did it and then he whined that no one was able to stop him. He goes around complaining that his victims keep dying. Dalinar is arrogant, power hungry, self righteous, patronizing, a hypocrite, an alcoholic, and a monster. The worst part for me is that he is patronizing. Well the worst part before OB. Now, after OB, the worst part is that he is a monster and he will never have to pay for his crimes. He and Szeth belong together. Neither will ever pay for their crimes. ETA: I thought of more stuff to hate about Dalinar. He is a bad husband and a very bad father. He is the worse father imaginable without actively beating his children.

@SLNC Ah I didn't know you were saying prostitution doesn't count as a seduction. I read it as you were not counting prostitution as extra-marital sex. I don't know how frowned upon extra-marital sex actually is. Everyone seems to take prostitutes in stride and I think Sadeas routinely raped women. It may be only lighteyed women are truly discouraged to have extra-marital sex.

How does prostitution not count as extra-marital sex? lol Are all these people married to all these prostitutes? I can't stop laughing. ETA: I agree here. I also see Adolin as very middling. He reminds me of Ivan Vorpatril (everyone should read Lois McMaster Bujold's Vorkosigan series). I was afraid to comment on Adolin's emotional sensitivity. I think we have seen some scenes where he is surprisingly perceptive. My first thought was that Kaladin is more emotionally sensitive, but then I remembered how dense he is when there is a lighteyes involved and sometimes he misses the obvious even among Bridge 4.

I gave you an up vote for this. If there is a Dalinar bashing thread please point it out to me. I really dislike him.

I do not have strong feelings about Adolin. Other readers read a lot more into him than I do. I agree that he does not have strong feelings for Shallan. He cares about her but he is not in love with her. If he thinks he is in love with her than he is in love with the prettied up face she lets him see and not the real Shallan. I am frustrated at how unequal their relationship is. Adolin seems to be more thoughtful and honest and Shallan does not seem to trust Adolin or respect him or be honest with him ever. I disagree here. I believe @Dreamstorm listed three separate occasions when Adolin does not realize Shallan is seriously upset. I do not agree that Adolin was emotionally perturbed in two of the three occasions and possibly not in any of the three. The time in Kholinar when Shallan returns from her break down Adolin feels relief and believes she is just fine. I consider all three occasions to be very significant and Adolin does not see that Shallan is upset at any of those times. (I think it is possible that Kaladin would not have noticed either) I think Adolin does not see it because Shallan is a great liar. The more important it is to her, the better she is at hiding it, even from herself. The possible exception is when Shallan does not want to practice with her shardblade. This moment, it seems obvious she is trying to tell him she is upset, but he is tone deaf and ignores her. Or he thinks she is objecting on the grounds that it is too masculine which is also tone deaf. She is in distress and he dismisses this or does not see it. I think @Dreamstorm also brought up a fourth occasion earlier in the thread where Adolin does not see that Shallan is exhausted until she collapses in front of him. This is another reason I do not like their relationship; there is a serious and ongoing discrepancy between the Shallan Adolin sees/knows and the real Shallan.

@Llarimar On the one hand I agree that Dalinar and Evi had a good marriage in some respects. (On the good side, I think they were faithful to each other, but that is about it.) On the other hand I am shocked you list Dalinar and Evi as having a good marriage. Evi was crying and miserable the entire time. Sadeas and Ialai also surprisingly have a good marriage. However, I think Sadeas was married when he was raping women. The timeline confuses me so maybe his rapes happened before he was married? That Roshone and Laral have a good marriage is surprising and I find it icky. This was an arranged marriage that Sanderson could have shown did not end well for one or the other of the people involved. ETA: Also it seems obvious that Dalinar never loved Evi.

There is also the fact that Shallan is sitting and feeling weak and disoriented, but when she sees Kaladin that is when she stands up. Suddenly she is feeling strong. This happens earlier in OB as well. Shallan is on Honor's Path and thinks that she can't retreat to Veil right now because Veil is feeling broken. But when talking to Kaladin Veil peaks out and is super involved in helping him figure out a way to escape the honorspren. (This happens just before Shallan thinks Veil is too broken.) Veil's feelings for Kaladin are so strong that even the pain she feels about her failure in Kholinar can't keep her from drooling over him. Shallan stuff's Veil away because Veil starts drooling.

I feel like you are making my point for me. I agree with all of this. I think all of Veil and Radiant's feelings and capabilities are Shallan's (not their backstory of course. Shallan needed that to be different so that she could pretend she did not kill her mother.) Shallan pretends Veil is infatuated with Kaladin but she (Shallan) is not and she pretends Radiant can hold her shardblade but she (Shallan) cannot. That is all her. She is the one with those feelings and she is the one who is capable of holding her shardblade and learning to wield it. These are Shallan's attributes. The point is Shallan is not functioning right now without her alters. Like you said she made them because she thinks she can't. I want to her to realize that yes she can because that is what she has been doing. But she is pretending so fiercely that she cannot do these things; that only Veil and Radiant can. This is where she is stuck. This is why I do not see her progressing. She is pretending that she is three people when she is one person with complex feelings and various abilities. She is lying to herself and she believes the lie. Like Pattern says "your lies wrap other lies." (This is when he calls her Shallan and she says call me Veil.) This moment is straight to the point. I am invested in the love story but dang I agree it is not well developed. The love story doesn't have to be central but Sanderson has packed emotional weight into just a few pages in OB itself and in his other books. That this love story does not have emotional weight is disappointing.

@Isilel I agree that Dalinar is super optimistic about Sadeas because he is missing memories. I have been thinking of the Thrill (and Odium's influence) as being like being under the influence of drugs. It is a little different in that Odium has a malevolent bent. When you end up doing something you would not have done without his influence it is always a really horrible thing. I think you and @Greywatch are right that people choose to fall under his influence, but for some reason I think there are people who choose consciously (which should be condemned) and people who choose unconsciously. If they are choosing unconsciously, I feel like they are being used and are more likely to regret their actions under the influence. Did anyone get the idea that people can fall unconsciously? I agree with your first paragraph. I also wish Shallan had discussed any of her many secrets with Adolin before marrying him. She has a built in excuse to not talk to Adolin about anything whenever she does not want to i.e. she got Adolin to agree secrets were good. While Adolin says this, in practice, I do not think he believes it. The first chance he gets he tells Shallan his one and only secret (that he killed Sadeas). Shallan does not return the favor. She does not reveal any of her secrets. Examples, Ghostbloods (supposedly she'll tell him after they are married. Why? Why after?), Grund, stealing Jasnah's soulcaster, Tyn, killing her parents, her abusive childhood. I'll focus on Grund (I think I've already made clear I think it was manipulation that made Shallan keep her childhood a secret. She's not willing to risk that Adolin will stop wanting her if she tells him.) So Shallan had two golden opportunities to tell Adolin about Grund. The first is when she comes back from her night out. She had a complete breakdown, but when she gets back, Adolin "Mr. He Knows Me" Kholin thinks she is fine. This is typical. Shallan is a great liar. That she appears to be fine is a lie that Adolin swallows whole. I think it was @Greywatch who thought it was a positive that Shallan considers masking herself but always chooses not to. While I think it can be taken as a positive, I do not take it that way. I think Shallan has just enough common sense to realize she could not maintain a lightweaving permanently with Adolin. Lightweavings break on contact. And Shallan the cheerful scholar is a mask. One she has had since around 6 months after killing her mother. Before that she was mute and stared at walls. She creates a version of herself to please her father and brothers that masks how broken she still is. This is what Adolin believes is the real her. Back to Grund. She returns from her night out and Adolin thinks she is fine. She does not take the opportunity to correct him. She doesn't hint at what a horrible place she is in. She hides. Shallan's second golden opportunity to talk about Grund is I think her better option. Perhaps she was too raw to talk about Grund within hours of his death. I can believe that. This is when she and Adolin have their conversation on Honor's Path. She says Veil is broken right now aaaaand stop. Why stop there? This is her perfect time to reveal that she tried to help a boy and he died. He probably would have lived if she had never interfered. She doesn't tell Adolin this. Whereas Adolin reveals his one and only secret. And after he reveals his secret Shallan still doesn't tell him about Grund or any of her secrets. She keeps her secrets and she is comforted by Adolin. It is a win-win in Shallan's mind. I just do not see Shallan giving up her personalities. I also see her continuing to repress her memories. She says to Kaladin that it is getting harder but she can still do it. OB ends with Shallan, Veil, and Radiant. They are still there and Shallan is still relying on them. She casually mentions Veil and Adolin hanging out. Veil pretends she and Shallan have separate childhoods. So she doesn't have to acknowledge that she killed her mother. As for Lifts comment that Shallan was hugging herself, I cannot agree that this means Shallan loves herself. I thought it was a joke. Veil, Radiant, and Shallan are in a ring and holding hands and their faces are flickering between all three. I thought this was because only whole Shallan could do that complex lightweaving at the end of OB. It took all three of them working together because all three make a whole Shallan.

Well I don't have much to say right now. I'm still thinking about it, but I was originally responding to this: I know it says I wrote this but I was quoting you @Greywatch and I don't know how to fix this. Bolding is mine. I was just saying that I think the text does support that Adolin killing Sadeas is a bad thing. It gives Odium his opening. That is canon.

With Amaram yes it was quite clear that he chose to side with Odium. With Sadeas soldiers it seemed less clear. I think they were driven farther than they would have gone without Odium's influence. Like with the Jah Keved soldiers they destroyed themselves and they were miserable but they didn't? couldn't? stop. And when Dalinar killed his own soldiers during a battle. I assume he would not have done that without the Thrill. And during the rift scene. Dalinar regrets burning the rift even as it is happening but he also feels from the Thrill that the Thrill is not satisfied it wants more and more death. So I consider these people Odium controlled or Odium influenced and therefore doing things they would not have done without Odium. Adolin killing Sadeas created an opening that Odium used. This is the way the text shows Adolin's murder was a bad thing. ETA: Right back to the focus of the thread. Where do you see Shallan coming to have compassion for herself? I would love to read that. Shallan's extremely low self worth is why I wish she had not gotten married. I think I wrote before that Shallan likes herself as long as Adolin likes her. That is not good enough for me. I want to see Shallan forgive herself. I want the book to be really blunt about it.

I was a bit confused by this part of the book. I thought Odium rather forcefully co-opted Sadeas's men. I thought they didn't have a choice. Did you read it differently? @Kogiopsis I think as readers we have a lot of sympathy for Shallan and know she didn't have better options. We also know Shallan does not have a lot of sympathy for herself. I interpret Shallan keeping her murders from Adolin as fear that he will think she is a monster just as she thinks of herself. She calls herself a monster, worthless, and says she doesn't matter. These are all things I think prevent her from having a successful marriage. (I wrote in another post that a person who hates themselves can't love another person romantically because they have nothing to give.) I think Shallan wants to continue living a lie and she finds it easy to lie to Adolin.

Dalinar is the only person to express regret that Sadeas was killed (this is when they find Sadeas's body). Dalinar expresses a not really realistic hope that he and Sadeas could have managed to work together to fight the desolation. Then Odium uses Sadeas's men's anger at Sadeas's murder to turn them to his side. This is a terrible consequence for the Coalition. To say the text doesn't support Adolin's murder being a bad thing is not quite right. I agree that Adolin never wanted to be king.

I agree here and this is part of the reason that I hate that she just got married. I am surprised you think a monster would end up having a good marriage. Didn't we read about Dalinar and Evi. It did not end well. Another thing that I think OB lacked consistency in is that Shallan is just another mask. We start off with Shallan in WOK, we learn a little more and in WOR we learn Shallan thinks her cheerful scholarship self is a mask over her true self which is a sobbing mess. We learn why at the end of WOR. This stays consistent through the first part of OB. In OB Shallan says Veil and Shallan are equally false. Shallan says at least two more times that her real self is a sobbing mess. One time she specifically says that she masks who she is for Adolin. We get Wit insisting Shallan has always been the girl who stood up. Then Shallan marries Adolin without talking through any of her issues and this is presented as a good thing. This does not address the consistent problem that the real Shallan is a sobbing mess. Because it is presented as a good thing, it is inconsistent. See my previous post where I compare the end of OB to the end of WOR.

I have tried to read it as a joke. Actually my first thought was that it was a meta joke. "Hey Adolin you get three wives" Adolin replies "No thanks I just want you" I thought it was a knock against Rand and his three women. Not surprisingly, I think about WOT a lot. I did read it as kind of humorous, but I took it literally since Shallan does have a problem of pretending to be other people. We the reader are very aware of this problem and I would have preferred to see Shallan address this problem before committing to marriage. Since she still has this problem as she is talking to Adolin in this scene I find it very concerning. You have really given me a lot to think about. Your interpretation is very sweet. I tend to be very literal and I will miss things, especially jokes. Shallan asking for help is great. I just really wish she could get that help and not think she has to get married right now.

I love this thread. What I am looking for in a book is consistency and I thought the end of OB was inconsistent. That is why I disliked it so much. Shallan says some things that make it seem that she wants to be herself. She says "He knows me", and that Veil and Radiant are not her, and that Adolin encourages her to not hide, but then she says to Adolin I can be anyone you want which seems to say she absolutely does not want to be herself. Then Adolin says he just wants the real her so Shallan says alright I'll do that even though it will be hard. So Shallan wanting to be herself is not consistent what is consistent is that she wants Adolin and she'll do anything to keep him including being other people if that is what he wants. The way I read this was Shallan says "I have a role to play and you Adolin have the script." It is really gross. That Shallan suppressing things is bad is something that is consistent. Like @Dreamstorm has said there has always been the implication that Shallan needs to confront her issues in order to be healthier mentally and to progress as a Radiant. The end of OB has Shallan suppressing Veil and Radiant and then marrying Adolin and this is presented as a good thing. Suddenly suppression is good. This is inconsistent and very frustrating. Shallan says Veil and Radiant are not her. But earlier in OB Veil is walking around chatting with Pattern. Pattern calls her Shallan and she says call me Veil so Pattern says your lies wrap other lies. To me this means Veil is Shallan according to Pattern. I expect Pattern to know what the truth is and I find it believable that Shallan would believe her own lies. So Shallan says Veil and Radiant are not her and then she marries Adolin and this seems to be good and right. It is presented as a happy ending and fits the classic fairy tale "And they lived happily ever after." I am baffled. It seems to me bad and wrong. OB has lost consistency. Compare this to the end of WOR. Kaladin hating lighteyes is consistent throughout the book as well as Syl's concern whenever he starts ranting about evil lighteyes. This is resolved at the end of the book by Kaladin admitting he was wrong to try to assassinate Elhokar and swearing an oath to protect even those he hates. His bond is restored and he saves the day. Syl is the one who points out that Kaladin hating lighteyes is a bad thing. Now image Kaladin goes through with assassinating Elhokar and the book ends in celebration. Dalinar is crowned king. This is a triumph. It turns out Kaladin was right all along to hate lighteyes. I think some people would feel the confusion I feel at the end of OB. ETA: I have seen elsewhere in this thread that Shallan (realShallan) has broken into pieces. Those pieces are Shallan=3, Veil=2, and Radiant=1. I think we can all agree that Radiant is really thin and there is not much to her. So realShallan would be all three together. 3 + 2 +1 = 6. realShallan comes out to 6. Shallan is a stronger personality than Veil but she is still not whole. If she was whole than she would be more like she was in WOK and WOR i.e. able to handle periods of stress. Aslo remember that within OB Shallan says Veil is vital and that it would be easier to discard Shallan than Veil. Then there is a WOB where he says he wrote the romance to show Shallan was splitting into different people who each loved different people. It is Sanderson himself who seems to be making an equivalency between Shallan's feelings for Adolin and Veil's feelings for Kaladin.

@FeatherWriter Thanks for that quote. I haven't read that scene since I finished OB. Adolin is much more emotional than I remembered. I think I forgot because Shallan is immediately side tracked by the "prize" discussion. Now I am conflicted because we still don't get much of a reaction in Adolin's POV. His reaction when he breaks up with Shallan could have as much to do with another failed relationship as with Shallan herself. I am still mostly frustrated by this scene, not satisfied. We start with Veil and Radiant wanting to be with Kaladin then Shallan stopping them because she wants to be with Adolin because "He knows me." Then we get the scene where Adolin believes Shallan has made her choice (and her choice was Kaladin.) But Shallan immediately refutes that idea. This is one of the only things we have an Adolin POV about; that Shallan is making eyes at Kaladin so much that Adolin believes she prefers Kaladin. If Adolin is wrong about this and Shallan insists he is then what is he right about? What does he know about Shallan that makes her decide she should be with him? If it is just that he knows what she looks like then Shallan could say that about anyone. If it is that he listens to her then that is a little better but I think it is more that Shallan can get away with lying to him. I think this is an outright lie. Shallan compares Adolin to a sculpture multiple times. She compares Kaladin to the wind (duh - maybe she's not as creative as she thinks she is.) In the chasm scene Kaladin calls her out for her lie about why she wanted to be out on the Shattered Plains. Shallan is relieved that Adolin had not thought of this. She is relieved she was able to manipulate him. I think this is still the case at the end of OB. @DeployParachute said it well.

I did think about this but still decided Adolin does not have strong feelings for Shallan. While I agree the best reaction is not pitching a fit we are in Adolin's head when he starts thinking Shallan would rather be with Kaladin. He has zero emotional reaction to this. Forget pitching a fit, he should feel something even if he refrains from punching people. We are in his head and he is not Shallan whatever he is feeling is something I think we the reader would be aware of. I can get behind this. My dream ships in order of preference. 1st place: Kaladin and Shallan (I have just about lost hope here) 2nd place: Kaladin and Adolin (wow they would be great together. I think it was this thread that made me think of it but they would be even better than Kaladin and Shallan. At the very least you wouldn't have to worry about multiple personalities.) 3rd place: (I don't mean this very seriously but as the title suggests) Adolin-Shallan-Kaladin (these crazy kids would be wild. I think they could make it work. They are all such caring individuals.)

This quote from Sanderson has bothered me a lot for some time. I'll try to explain why. Just focus on "life goals." I thought Shallan's entire arc in OB was that she could not figure out what her life goals were. We were told repeatedly that Shallan did not know what she wanted; she wasn't even interested in scholarship anymore. So how am I supposed to believe Adolin is a choice for Shallan in line with her life goals when she doesn't have any? If Sanderson had established Shallan's life goals and shown how Adolin matched her goals that would have been meaningful, that would have shown impressive maturity. But the ending was so rushed. We didn't get any internal reflection from Shallan just boom married. We also got Shallan being relieved that she was not queen. I believe this is the first time this has ever crossed her mind despite knowing Adolin was in line for the throne. We also got Shallan suddenly willing to be Jasnah's ward. Last we knew, Shallan was desperately unhappy as Jasnah's ward. Then, with no warning, Shallan is desperate for Jasnah to take her back. Why? Sanderson reverses Shallan's every decision so she ends OB in the same place as the end of WOR and he doesn't justify it. Also, how is Kaladin brooding a match for Veil's life goals? Both Veil and Shallan seem aimless. They both lack focus. This quote from Sanderson implies a maturity in Shallan that we have not seen. ETA What is Kalarin?

I have been convinced that Adolin does not have strong feelings for Shallan. There were two things that convinced me (they are sort of the same thing though). 1. We get Adolin's POV where Shallan stands up straight when she sees Kaladin. Adolin admits he has noticed her looking at Kaladin before and that she seems to be interested in Kaladin and maybe has feelings for him. Adolin does not have a strong reaction to this realization he is just resigned. I expect he would have a more emotional reaction if he was more invested in Shallan and his relationship with her. 2. Adolin breaks up with Shallan (well he tries) and again we don't see that he is having an emotional reaction to their separation. He is just matter of fact. He is just matter of fact in both of these scenes. lol. Yes completely agree. P.S. Yeah I learned how to quote someone!

@Rainier I do think Veil has feelings for Kaladin but they are ultimately Shallan's feelings because Shallan, Veil, and Radiant are all Shallan. She has broken into pieces but those pieces fit together to make a whole. None of them work well as individuals for long. At the end of OB Shallan light weaves as Veil, Radiant, and Shallan they all work together because together they are whole. I think all the feelings and capabilities of all three belong to Shallan; she is responsible for all of it. There is a line in OB (can't remember where) that says why do you have to be just one why can't you be all? That's how I see it. Shallan is all three even with all the contradictions. She's not one thing but she tries to simplify herself she tries to not have contradictions. So Shallan pretends it is someone else who has feelings for Kaladin (i.e. Veil) but it is Shallan who has these feelings. @Humming I think this has been mentioned before. I don't remember when. I like it; it is a good description of Shallan. Shallan is a liar and a thief. I don't think Adolin really gets this about her. My favorite description of Shallan comes from Kaladin. In the chasm scene Kaladin says "The only time you seem to be honest is when you are insulting someone." (I did that from memory I may have it a little wrong.) I love it. I think it fits Shallan perfectly. She is not nice. Another thing I don't think Adolin gets about her. She is nice to him and maybe only him. I don't see this as a good thing though maybe I should. (In a relationship of course you want your partner to be nice to you.) There is a line in OB (I think this comes from Veil) where Veil says she can't or doesn't tease Adolin and I thought you really should be able to tease your partner. It really should be fun.

Kaladin’s 4th ideal I am sure will be covered in a future book and I expect he will reach it. Helaran I am hopeful will be covered in a future book. Really really hopeful. Shallan seems to have to no reaction to the news but we know from her POV that she was forcefully repressing her reaction. We have Shallan being a douche to Kaladin which is probably related to the Helaran news she got. I hope we haven’t seen the last of this (I secretly hope Shallan tries to kill Kaladin. That line from the chasms about one of them feeling better if Shallan tries made me hope we would see it happen and Kaladin killing Shallan’s brother gives Shallan the perfect excuse.) @MonsterMetroid thanks for those quotes. Now I am sure the Helaran story is not done. I remembered Shallan saying Kaladin was only protecting his highlord but I didn't remember she specifically represses her feelings just before giving that lame excuse. It's lame because we see how she hates Amaram and that was when she thought he was defending his own life from an assassin. Defending your own life has to trump defending your highlord. Shallan's feelings of grief? betrayal? anger? hatred? whatever those feelings are in whatever combination they have to come out sometime. I am trying not to hope about the romance because I was so disappointed by OB. I think there are hints it is not over though. This thread covers many but the one that convinces me is Veil. Shallan is pretending Veil has feelings for Kaladin but she does not. (To be clear I think she does have feelings for Kaladin but is pretending she does not.) This is like the forceful suppression of Helaran, this has to come up again. @MonsterMetroid and @Dreamstorm (Another sex digression) Both of your points are persuasive. @Dreamstorm this struck me because I immediately thought of Komarr by Lois McMaster Bujold SPOILER!!! Ekaterine is married to a man she wants to leave. She feels obligated to have sex with him and then waits for him to fall asleep and goes to the bathroom to cry. It was horrible to read. Props to Sanderson if he is avoiding this. @analyticaposteriori Props for comparing Shallan to Kvothe. I love it. @Mistbornwithakitty You said you thought she was on her way to thinking better of herself. Maybe Sanderson was going for this, but I am too much a pessimist to see it. I saw her collapse and flickering faces at the end of OB as the same collapse she had in Kholinar. She doesn't know who she is or who she wants to be. She thinks she is worthless. She is lost. Then she lets Adolin decide who she is (very frustrating). I don't believe she chose for herself I think she let Adolin choose for her. If Adolin likes her then she can like herself. I see this as very negative.

@MonsterMetroid I am not sure I agree. It is an interesting thought that you can infer as much or as little as you want, but look at what is written. Just in SA: Navani pursues Dalinar. In OB Navani wants to have sex Dalinar wants to get married. Shallan is the one who kisses Adolin every time. Syl points out the ardent has a crush on Kaladin so Kaladin says they can't get married and Syl says the ardent is not thinking of marriage. (lol I thought that was funny). That's two women the ardent and Syl that think about sex while Kaladin does not. Then Shallan gets the line about getting married to have sex. Not getting too physical without oaths. Something like that. In Elantris: I can't remember their names but the main characters get to know each other and like each other and get married then the female gets the line about having sex. In Warbreaker: Well this one is a little creepy since one of them is mentally developed enough to think about sex and the other is not, still the divide is female and male, respectively. In the first mistborn trilogy: It's possible Elend thinks about sex more than Vin, but since it is almost completely absent from both of them it is a hard call. This one I will grant you the sex is absent because of Sanderson's religious background. In the Wax/Wayne series: I'd say Wax/Marasi/Steris are all interested in sex. However, Wax is grieving through most of the books so this is the only time I think it is legit that the man is thinking about sex less than the women. Those are all the Sanderson books I've read. Sorry for talking about sex so much. It does bother me just a bit though. ETA: I feel really ridiculous that I wrote this. I do not want to read explicit sex scenes at all. They almost always make me uncomfortable. It is just that Sanderson's male characters seem a bit inhuman to me. I just need one line really that the men are interested.