Archer

I really thought you'd end up on TUA. Are you just trusting Illwei's read on this one? *water begins pooling out from beneath the kitchen's swingy double doors* EVERYTHING IS FINE! I got it in my head that they get to choose anyone they want to kill with them, not just from people that voted for them, so excellent catch. My opinion is unchanged, but that's very likely because it takes a hot minute for information to settle in my brain before I properly internalize it. I'll keep you posted. Either way, I am not the Messenger and I am not afraid of the Messenger. But you've reminded me that it probably terrifies the elims, so sus on everyone who doesn't end up on a viable wagon.

Wait what why. There's no reason for a three vote wagon on a non poster. Chameeeeeeleooooooon You're right, I hate RNG. I was just placing and retracting votes in rough order of when people were on or were about to be on. Striker conveniently told us when they'd arrive in the signups, and I was banking on you showing up overnight. Karnatheon hasn't said much, but in light of the LG, I'm not willing to clear based on that. TUA's assassin question stands out to me. TJ and Striker have a lot of emojis, but I didn't mind their responses. I'm watching who is willing to blatantly self pres as a sign they're a Ghostblood, and TJ's response felt more game solvely. I respect that Jungle was willing to vote, kudos to you. Plus how to red text is a question better posed in the elim doc. I dislike Dannex's vote enough that I'd be willing to exe them. Danex TJ They also don't reveal their identity when they share info. The worst that can happen is an elim lies about the result of a scan, but they risk exposing their alignment when we discover the ruse. * I genuinely don't think the Messenger exists. The village will take guaranteed GB flip over possible mix C1, and there's no Deceptions C1, so they have no reason not to open wolf and explicitly ask to be exed.

*more pots clatter to the ground, possibly dropped, possibly thrown* YES! POSSIBLY! RULLLLLLES the problem with a game with a rollover of 11.20 is that's just early enough I might miss it, but not early enough that I'll set an alarm. Good luck, night owls. And send in your actions! Striker, it's Absolutely TJ .

Any particular reason for that read? I'm going to keep making fun of it until you reveal that the distro made every villager a jailor king These first two paragraphs read like a Lightweaver soft to me. Care to make that official? Disagree on the Squire speculation. Better to evaluate future threats than to check old ones unless we're stuck. I kinda doubt this role exists though. No one ever does nothing when that's the best thing to do. But I admire the optimism.

Pfft, taking the GM's side huh. Thoughts on giving up roles via Will? Or claiming in general? Interesting reasoning. Isn't the jailer king village anyway? (honestly can't remember)

*muffled noise of pots and pans hitting the floor in the kitchen* *pokes my head of the swingy double doors and points aggressively at you with a cleaver* RIGHT. *somewhere behind me, meat begins to burn* my basic literacy skills are not good. Interesting that TUO and you caught that, if only because people tend to more knowledge about their own roles. But my ego isn't big enough that I'm going to vote somewhere for correcting me. :D. If that's the case, I fear this distro is heavily banking on the NK being at least partially ineffective because of our roles and the rules about only certain people being able to use the NK. But you know what. There's maybe 5 non-villagers out there. If I choose someone at random, there's a 5/11 chance they'll be a good kill target. So I am genuinely going to RNG this here vote, and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Experience STRIKEREZ Edit: moooooom, you never let us have any fun :((((((

Not existing, but if you'd like to counter-claim, I'll include it. :P. I think the GM is banking on us blocking/scanning half of the NKs. So in a 3e:3n:6v game, it might go: C1 result: 3e:3n:4v, C2: 3e:3n:3v (Ghostbloods claim and work with elims, game over). How about 3e:2n:7v? C1 result: 3e:2n:5v. C2: 3e:2n:4v. C3: 3e:2n:2v (Being outnumbered by the elims by C3 seems quick.) So I'm looking at 2e:2n:8v. C1 result: 2e:2n:6v. C2: 2e:2n:5v. C3: 2e:2n:3v. C4: 2e:2n:2v. This still isn't great, but at least we make it to C4 before arriving at parity with the elims, which is when I deem the game to be out of our control. I probably shouldn't have crossed them out because people will get confused, but that's my thinking. Keep the fun roles, suggest a few plain ones are possible to keep things interesting, but really focus on keeping the game competitive. Reason (singular) Experience, you don't have to answer this until Mat says how serious his vote on me is EDIT: good distancing

We love the refresh button. Okay, for my own sanity: That's twelve possible roles for a game with twelve players. There's no way half aren't village, right? I was predicting closer to two elims and two Ghostbloods. Drop the Assassin because that's a boring role, cut the Messenger because that's confusing in a game with no PMs and suicide roles aren't fun to play, and that's closer to what seems reasonable to me. I imagine one of almost every listed village role exists, except maybe Windrunner, because it's the anti-Dustbringer role. That allows for some overlap to mess up mass claiming. I'm guessing the lack of PMs makes it easier to stomach a role scanner in the distro, so I'm optimistically thinking we have that role. If not, the lite version is Skybreaker. The ultra-lite version is a lucky Truthless. Looking at it all, there's a lot of kill blocking and scanning in the roles we might have... That's a big red flag. I projected and read that as I'm going to explode have fun Interesting. Are you softing Ghostblood? Copy-paste is my go to on mobile.

Really. You decided not to include PMs, but you did included the jailer role (Judging by the clarification in the OP). My only planned gambit was to guess who was evil based on who wanted PMs. :(. Mild sus on Experience, by the way. Elims like PMs. So do Ghostbloods. Which one are you, Experience? If you're one of the 3 types of Ghostbloods we can work with, I promise not to kill you if you tell. :3. Or I will, if you're the Messenger. Also, where the flippity flap is everyone finding these 0-3 thingies Jufiend

Good idea. People should give a shout if they want PMs, or if they don't. I'm cool with getting one. My gut says Tani included multiples of some roles so the elims can lie realistically. But if you soft clear everyone who claims a unique role and exe from there, odds are we'd probably do okay. Well my backup plan was to suggest that people write their roles into well constructed poems so that you can tell if the role's name has been switched. :P. Another general discussion question is whether or not we should accuse people of being Deceived. It Silences someone who is probably not evil if we're right. It also makes it harder for the elims to use it as leverage, being able to call Silence someone mid-round if they don't like what they start saying. doitdoitdoitdoit

Lies, I clearly wrote that up in 30 seconds. :P. My understanding of Deceive is that the elims have to target you with it for it to affect you, so in theory no one should have it C1. But this is the kind of game we should definitely ask rather than assume. GM? There's probably some Sketchy Distro stuff going on that it would be nice to know about, but the rebuttal to that is the threat of the role-swapper. Also, hi new players! How're ya doing, JungleFriend? * “Welcome to McDaggers, what can I get for you today?” I liked to keep my dealings business-like. Luckily, the client seated across the desk from me knew my lingo. “Filet O’Fish.” I’d heard the name before. O’Fish was a guard, and it didn’t take much imagination to guess why someone would want one of those taken out. “Anything else?” “Can I get a vanilla con?” “Sorry, that’s broken.” “That likely it’s role madness, huh? Oh well, how about a soft dr-” “Closest I can claim is an Edgedancer, but they can heal. Sometimes.” “That will be fine.” “Would you like to super size that?” “Okay. That will be fine.” “Pleasure doing business with you then. Please pull through.” I hoped he’d pull through. Clients like these had a bad habit of dying before they paid me what they owed.

DID SOMEONE SAY FREE BROWNIES I like Illwei’s approach of treating this as a vanilla game until roles become relevant to you. Focus on what you can control. Now here’s some rule analysis. Wills We should discuss whether revealing our roles when we die is a good idea, but assuming it is, we have two good options: 1. I suggest we all submit two Wills. The first contains our true alignment and role. The second is our Deception Will, and it just contains our alignment. Whenever we see a Will with just an alignment, we will know to take it with a grain of salt. Remember that if we assume each role only appear once, the elims risk a counter-claim exposing their ruse if they try to fakeclaim in their Will. This approach forces them to write Wills that have the same amount of information as our Deception Wills will, and we’re resolving to treat those with skepticism. 2. Alternatively, we can abuse that rule that elims must submit Wills and all request that only our alignment and role be revealed when we die. The elims have to write fully flavored Wills, so it’ll be obvious when they die. This all assumes that we are unable to tell when someone is under the Deceive condition. It may be obvious enough in retrospect that this conversation becomes moot. I imagine the elims will target their own players if they’re due to be exed, because they can subtly weather the condition and make us think we mixed at the end of it. Village Role Suggestions -Bondsmith: Stick to 2-person PMs. Worst thing that can happen is you make a massive PM and find out it’s been compromised and we have no backups. -Edgedancer: Protect people. -Edgedancer Squire: Can’t exist without an Edgedancer, unless our GM uses it as a vanilla role. Try every round anyway. -Lightweaver Squire: Determining the alignments of the living is more important than finding the dead’s, so find a trust and work with them. Don’t bother scanning yourself for someone because roles are factions specific, unless you haven’t made contact with them privately yet. But if you have to claim, you can use your knowledge of who was targeted as proof of your innocence, so don’t worry about it too much. Checking out the alignments of the dead is a good second option, but you should only do it if you have a strong suspicion that they were Deceiving. -Skybreaker: “Jails one person per cycle if there’s not an exile.” Submit your action on the off-chance we all agree to forgo the exe, but you’re basically a vanilla. Hope to get role swapped with someone. -Skybreaker Squire: Be a nark. -Stoneward: Try to get NKed or force the elims to commit votes to your exe. -Willshaper: The GM included you to cause chaos. You want to move NKs, but you can also mess up scans, so be thoughtful and wary of acting needlessly because “there is a possibility of there being up to four willshapers in any given cycles.” That’s a lot. You should reveal your targets in your Will. -Windrunner: Because non-villagers are hard to kill, the trade of one villager for one Ghostblood is a good one. Try to get killed doing your duty. -Elsecaller: You might kill the Windrunner by accident, but otherwise, your goal is to kill baddies. -Truthless: Good luck. Hey Ghostbloods We don’t have to fight. The Lightweaver needs to find an elim to switch the role of, and we’re hunting them too, so let’s work together to apply pressure and reveal intentions. If the Truthwatcher claims, the elims get no benefit from killing them and neither do we. You can essentially act as a Soother for our team. We don’t want to exe the Messenger because they’ll kill us in retribution, so we’re happy to ignore you. The Dustbringer might cause problems for us, but hey, you know elims usually live for longer than villagers, so why not focus on burning their houses down first? Think of it this way. You can try and avoid the exe by acting very villagery, but then the elims will NK you. You can try and act sus, but then the reverse will happen. So instead of trying to walk that tightrope, why don’t you just help us out?

In as McDaggers the Sneak. How seriously does the claim have to be made? If I jokingly say I'm a Lightweaver and TJ is a Ghostblood, but don't seriously stick to that statement, does that get entered into the record? What if I just say that to one person in a PM, does it get recorded? What if there's conflicting statements? Is elims being used as a catchall term for not village, or does it just mean Rebels? Some GMs issue public reminders about impending filter kills. I assume you won't do that so people can pretend to be Silenced? Can I make small helpful contributions in the service of a larger Deception? Ngl, this amount of actions scares me The Shardbearer pool will get reduced pretty quickly if there's problems with inactivity. Any chance you'll allow their team to put in the action on their behalf? Are the Betrothed told in their shared PM or their personal ones of this?

I would like a MR slot please!

Huzzah! That was terrifying! Yup! Worst read I've ever made. :D. For those who are interested, here's the C1 PM where I admitted to being evil. Shouout to that coin for letting me survive the first exe, then another exe, and roles for letting me tank two more kills. That's gotta be some kind of a record, right? Four deaths averted is really hard to beat if you're on the other team, so I chalk this one up to a healthy amount of luck. It happens. Revealing too much hurt both teams at times. :P. I hope you play again soon! You're a big enough problem when you're on the other team that I might take you up on that. :P. Every read starting at I was trying to imply I was a teammate of Szeth was fairly spot on. Sorry for killing the Alliance. It was an accident, I swear! Were you trying to signal something in our PM? I was unsure. Thank you. But before you give me too much praise, this game made me realize that power wolfing can sometimes go very wrong and blindside your teammates, so I'm going to try and reign it in a bit going forward. Thanks for running this, Elandera, Araris! I think it's been my favorite game so far. Only suggestion is to fix the confusion about what's said for a blocked attack/conversion etc. It all made sense, but I don't think anyone predicted them correctly. Good game, all. And thanks for being a level headed teammate, Devo, and a surprise ace in the hole, Mat! Edit: Oh and shoutout to @Karnatheon for being a devoted spectator! I saw you lurking a few times :P.

I can see the Reavers and Crew both having a Thug, so I see no reason to doubt Teia's claim. One of Teia or Mat is lying. I guess Mat is fairly confirmed good after being attacked twice, so that points to e!Teia. Devo and Steel are also good, so that leaves Walin as the only possibile teammate for them. If we exe Thug!Teia and there's an NK, we'll still have a 3:2 edge in player count, but I'm wary of the possibility of inactive or converted players allowing the elims to get back into it. Better to make it 4:1, especially if Mat survives the round so he'll have only one person to block instead of two options going forward. I hate not going after the confirmed evil player, but maybe it's a one man team and Mat is doing what Illwei did last game. This seems like the best move: Walin.

Illwei why On a gut level, Walin coming in with minutes to go in the round to vote on me makes me suspicious. I was village reading them for not casting a vote in the round where they missed most of the action, but this one counteracts that. How do we know it's not a Walin-you team, Mat? Walin, what's your take on things now? Aside from that kind of a setup, it looks a lot like Mat really did confirm an elim with that block, so while I'm sure you were happy just to save yourself, thank you very much. :D. The only alternative explanation I can think of is there's another Shepherd or doctor in the mix.

Here’s where I’m at. I think that the Reavers likely started as a two man team, then may have converted someone C1. It’d be odd for the a!Merc not to take a shot, unless they were affected by an unclaimed block. That’d put the ratio at 4v:3e, which is exlo. For meta reasons, I doubt the elim team shot at Walin or Teia on C1, so for them to be evil, I’m assuming they were from that start. I think Steel is confirmed village for blocking a kill that, from a three-man elim team’s perspective that doesn’t know I’m a Thug, would have won them the game. Steel, did Devo know you were going to use your ability? I imagine they would have held their fire if so, to avoid confirming Mat as village. There’s a chance of a Mat-Devo team pulling a WGG though. If they didn’t know, Devo could still be evil. Mat, who’d you tell about your Shepherd ability before today? It doesn’t really matter since if Mat is evil, I’m going to die. So I’m just gonna discount that team and move on. The remaining suspects are Illwei, Teia, and Walin. That’s a problem because of my no-targeting-Walin-or-Teia-C1 theory. Walin is a total null read. I find it weird that Teia stuck to vanity votes the first two cycles and they had a weird line about sheeping the consensus earlier. I’d actually talked myself into voting Teia if that was the only option, but if you’re willing to go for Illwei Mat, that’s the one I feel better about. I can’t see the team being Walin-Teia, and it’s also unlikely that it was entirely village action last cycle before the extension. Maybe the Reavers started off with just one person? Conversion odds seem low for that though. Also, remember to submit your Search actions y'all.

Maybe I'm misusing the term. What's it called when the elims vote in cohort and create a three vote wagon to start the round, then its the one that wins? It's like an early hammer. Nah. I'll figure out what's happening there later. For now, let me enjoy the fact that I got to tank that kill.

I feel like I made it very clear that exing me was a bad idea. :P. Not sure why you think I'd have changed my mind after all that. I got hammered, it's exlo, the rest is window dressing. Illwei

To be fair, the way I was going, had the round ended at the usual time, I would have been killed. At least this worked to get your attention. :D. There's probably not any Alliance left, ya. They had a coinshot, and the Reavers have growth potential. So the night kill is almost definitely going to kill a Crew member anyway. Secrecy isn't fooling the elims. Whereas telling us publicly reduces the risk that we mis-exe you, and allows for better coordination since we know someone who can be trusted. It's kind of a moot point now, but that was the theory. I'll tell you it's just Illwei-Steel+/-someone who got converted C1. But you-Illwei-Steel makes a lot of sense to me, based on the votes of today.

Don't bother overplaying your hand, my team won't communicate regardless of any discouragement you want to throw at them. It's a free village read. No one's going to fake counter claim it, so why wouldn't we want to know who got it. I'd rather hoped it would tell me whether I'm being hammered by two elims or three, but as soon as I post this I know you're going to come out and say you did in fact find it because that mires the whole approach. Illwei's two main points against me are 1/ the kills seem like my style. That's subjective and we don't know which team made any of them. 2/ my C2 vote made it look like I was e-e with Szeth. Perhaps when Szeth voted on me, that bad read should have been corrected. Illwei had an opportunistic vote on Ash C1 and a willingness to vote Lotus C2 that conveniently got distracted by a desire to vote for me once the Lotus train solidified as the likely mix. This post shouts e-e with Steel, so on the off chance that switching to that vote makes this thread less stagnant or convinces a v!Mat to move, I'll change my vote to there. Both their votes have been bandwagony, and I'm convinced the elim team shot TUA and Steel missed clocking Szeth's death, and blundered by thinking they were still alive when the thread read they said they did would have indicated otherwise. Illwei Steel

Hey @Illwei, can you shoot me a PM please and thanks? EDIT: @Walin, @Teia, which of you found the Secret piece? I assume anyone who posted would have claimed it if they had.

I figured you'd clocked it. But when Steel made their post saying they read the thread and came out thinking that Szeth seemed village, you voted for them, but you didn't point out the flaw in their analysis. I'd have expected you to say something more along the lines of, hey, it looks like you elim killed TUA then pretended to do a thread skim to justify your vote, but forgot the other kill that happened from a Merc which gave us a flip that makes your take redundant. It looks like you just saw an easy side wagon you could park a vote on, but didn't want to deeply engage with it at the moment. Ignore the fact that I'm suspecting you both even though it's unlikely you're teammates. It'll work out somehow

Lies! I see that Steel vote. :P. The beauty of this argument is if you were converted C1 and Danex was the victim of a Mercenary, we have no way of knowing. But if they were elim killed, they were my top suspect initially, so I would have undercut myself by doing it. I feel like Illwei's been pushing me as killbait for most of this game, so that's still where my votes going. Illwei Szeth was killed and flipped village. Why couldn't we both be Crew? How come you didn't point out the v!Szeth flip? Also, the tinfoil in me says you're just saying that so you can lurk near end of day tommorow.