Archer
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I took away that they're useful ways to smack the thread with a stick to get some bees to come out. Or actually this one was more targeted at a single individual. One bee. But I'm okay with multiple bees. There's a lot going on here. -It's a big assumption to think my role is what's keeping the alignments concealed. -Exing me for not having a provable role is poor strategy. And I did help prove it C1 by sharing the alignment info. -I never claimed to be super important, you just projected that. Regardless of what I can do, as a villager with no reason to believe my death would help things, I have no reason to mix myself. There's not even a case to be made about removing myself as a distraction because of the alignment issues. And there's not someone more villagery on the chopping block right now that I feel less useful than. Shifting the target of the exe from the elims to the game itself feels like an evil way of justifying a mix. So I'm comfortable with my vote and will now go write an essay * Also, important update. I misrelayed the information I got from Mat. The last response was actually yes, proving he COULD lie. I would have noted that if it'd been the other way around, I just mistyped while making the RP (thanks, dad :P)
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Why not, they worked for Meerkat. And it froze the elim team (aka me) in a previous game when Illwei did it because they (I) didn't want to jump on a bad wagon then have to retract. Only problem then was Illwei forgot to retract it, whereas I did in a timely fashion. Not my fault y'all decide to write two pages about it in that time. :P. Again, me giving more details won't help us make better decisions. I'm sure some of the interest is villager driven, but it looks to me like the elims want to know too so. Guess they'll have to kill me and find out if they really wanna know. They were in my polar bear RP. I thought Mat got chucked in the river, didn't TJ say that to someone? Anyway, they were clarification questions about what Mat knows about my role, and nothing stood out. Good question! I don't know! Thanks for the village read. :D. But I am genuinely busy with school, so please don't use that for your reads in this game or the LG.
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I think yours is. :P. I'll be honest, I'd hoped to get Thaid to jump, but I'll take the scummy read I got on Aman after all this. I'm the one who said that yes.
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Skmurph lay on an iceburg, arm lazily dangled in the water. Small fish flitted by between his claws, but he let them pass. He was after bigger- “RAWWRUhuh?” He pulled in what he’d thought was a penguin, but it was larger. Clammier. Dead? No, the Knighthawk Scientist he’d hooked had the faintest of heartbeat. Shame Skmurph’s claws had just punctured his lungs. He watched with interest as the man’s form began to faintly shimmer. He wished others were able to understand the phenomenon, but the polar bear knew only he could see when souls left a body. It made life as a carnivore difficult. He called out to it. “SKKruuuugh?” That meant: do you now have more information about the rules [of life] than when you died? There was no response. He took that as a no. “Grrruup.” Would someone in your position normally be able to communicate with other people, alive or dead? “No,” it finally whispered. “Igsgsgsrump.” Is your name Frank? The spirit began to fade. “No.” He solemnly lowered the now limp body back into the water. Human meat tasted terrible when wet. * Well that escalated quickly! I have some clarifications to issue: -The scan on Thaid was fake. I have no items or special knowledge of their alignment. It was a conversation starter to see if e!Thaid would claim to be neutral (that was tainted by the thread calling it out before he got on) and so thread analysis people could repeat the type of analysis done after the Meerkat Gambit (Stick waffled the most (bad), Aman committed to a read (good), and Ashbringer I won’t evaluate because he was on the AG elim team and should know how to respond). -I don’t actually get email notifications for pings, so I apologize for the ones I’ve missed. Some I’ve been ignoring though, to avoid giving away too much about my role and to give me time to get on desktop and RP. I am an Epic with funeral flavored powers, but I’ve ignored that and made it a polar bear. If someone dies and their alignment is not revealed, I may submit up to three yes or no questions to TJ during the following cycle. I can’t change the questions once they’ve been submitted. This isn’t an action. My recipient has until the end of the cycle to answer yes, no, or nothing. Their responses are given to me during the next rollover. My guess is TJ holds off on sending people the link to the dead doc until after the cycle is over, so I appreciate people checking in the cycle after they’re killed. There’s an additional ability available to me that does take an action, but I’m not going to discuss it. Not sorry. :P. I have yet to submit any actions. (Questions don't count, based on my understanding of the role.) -I feel like Aman has been opportunistic in response to my gambit. It feels like they’ve leaning into frustration about the lack of information and using it to push a (bad) infoexe. Killing me isn’t going to help reveal anything, as far as I know. -I know there’s stuff I’ve missed, but I’m typing this in class and want to get it in before I go back and try and respond to pings and quotes later. I made mental notes as I skimmed through and then... forgot them. I am sorry about that. EDIT: Just remembered. I did mean Illwei is a one women wrecking ball. She had referenced the recent game where she crushed it as a villager with the analysis, and I was talking about that.
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The secret is not having time to worry. Interesting approach. I can understand wanting to kill them if you suspect they're lying, but I didn't mind the possibility of a few extra kills going around, if only because people having their lies about their roles revealed is probably going to be our most reliable alignment flip. Speaking of which. * @Thaidakar the Ghostblood you had a good run. But I scanned you yesterday with my Villager Alignment Scanner item and you tested negative. So are you a neutral or are you an elim? Thaid
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Looks like y'all had fun without me, huh. Not quoting because it's too early in the morning for that stuff. Sorry. -Kas, Dannex, who I see added another n, very fun, has gone the inactive elim route before, but they're probably not the most catchable elim right now if they are evil, so. -I believe Devo is a neutral. Personally I wonder if TJ chose neutrals based on who is running the LG, but more importantly, it makes little sense to claim a kill ability if that's the team's only NK. Also I suspect Devo wouldn't have stood out enough to be noticed C1 if they were evil, unless e!Mat is involved. -I'll flag though that Devo's role sounds a little too villagery. The possibility of Illwei being a one woman wrecking ball aside, they can safely assume we'll mix at some point, so if they're being straight with us, they basically just need to play as a villager and solve the game as normal. Confused why they're bothering to scan rather than just shoot suspects, given all the Epic claims. Also wonder whether that implies Elims have a Regular who would avoid being targeted. -Devo's Arsonist theory makes sense to me, and I'm surprised Ashbringer got to the possibility of an Arsonist Conversion game before they considered Arson Kills. My first game, the last Reckoners game, was arson NK, but i think it was a different GM. -Other possibility is the elims may either NK or conceal the alignments of those who die each cycle. Or do both but they lacked the actions for it and wanted to demoralize or hide an elim death. My role implies alignment flips are possible, so if it's not a setting we need to activate, I think we just need to keep our cool. Although it is fun watching Kas reevaluate his life choices. :P. (Personally, I appreciate TJ deadpan trolling bro, turnabout is fair play.) -Genuinely have no thoughts on Karn. I didn't feel their vote on me was well thought out, but I wasn't going to kill them for it. Didn't know they were married. Claims be wildin. *screams* -Speaking of bad votes on me, Thaiiiiiiid? What're you dooooooooing???? Consider yourself my default vote if I don't get around to a proper read through today. If you're a Jester or something, congrats, you're succeeding. -Tani coped Stick's powers and Armageddon didn't happen. What's up with that? Let me know if you decide to target me. -If anyone's bored/reeling from lack of alignment flips, we've probably got enough claims to try doing theoretical distro guesses. Bonus points if you assume PM items are the only way we're getting those. -Kas, I just assumed items existed and went to the Regulars, by the way. Seemed fair. -Next person who claims neutral is evil.
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1. I think I remember you trusting me fairly vocally C1. so I'm going to slide my theory that you tried to sus the Epics to set up a mix of me into the corner for now. 2. Items are a thing, and Regulars are more likely to get them, so it's possible he's got protection. Checkmate, elims! 3. Yeah, they had enough time to plan for Mat dying to figure stuff out. But part of me wonders if I'd have thought to check that... 4. That is indeed more complicated than I'd assumed A lot of my suspicion centers around this post: The timing of it was fairly early for Devo, which makes me wonder if it's a reflection of the two main wagons being large enough that they felt comfortable committing their vote while taking advantage of the opportunity to not look like they're holding it in reserve suspiciously. Or they wanted to make sure their distancing on Ashbringer didn't turn into anything serious, hence the last line. The 'what has Stick said' opener presents it like they're drawing in a peripheral candidate to add pressure, except they were the subject of four votes by then so that doesn't make sense. The stated desire to see how they react to being in the lead is in a similar vein. I dislike when votes like that stick, which Devo's did, ignoring the baiting and other fun that went on near EoD. They checked in near the end and said "Enough push for Matrim that I'm still going to keep my vote on Stick," which is a weird way of saying they don't want Mat to die. Overall, my impression was that this is how elims park votes, either on v/v wagons, or in defense of Mat. Do you have anyway of self-targeting to see if other neutrals exist? Would that even work It only works on one person. That would be an usual enough setup that I don't think it would have been approved. bold of you to assume we didn't all ignore obvious warnings in our excitement to use our newfound power :P. Based on the source material, I really like this guess. But Striker got a pass for claiming neutral, so I believe n!Mat would have followed his lead and made a similar claim near the end of the day to save himself. EDIT: ninja'd by Kas. Let us know how it goes! Go Riots, woooo
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TJ please make PMs... this thread is six pages already (I'm kidding. This is great. Yaaay. I'm so happy.) You're starting to develop a credibility problem with those naked accusations. If you do happen to remember, I'd love to hear your thought process. Helps us to read ya. Right but the most helpful vote analysis is when you have an elim flip and can assume the elims tried to protect their teammate. Voting for elims is exclusively a villager activity*, whereas voting for villagers is something done by either side. Stick and Mat weren't diametrically opposed, so it's not a great info flip. Also I just realized that you're Stick. Hello! :D. Skmurph ate squids too. He made it fun, turning it into a game. He hoped that one day, Netflix would shoot a show about the experience. Kas is an Epic whose weakness is conversion games. :P. That second sentence pings me. I think you did a lengthy look at whether Epics would be elim-specific C1. That's implies you aren't one, which can be a scummy thing to do, especially if they're unsure if Epics exist in the village or not. It can also be a villagery move to maintain an air of secrecy - but you claim you entirely forgot you were an Epic. But you also said you softed your name during C1. So you did remember you were an Epic. So that doesn't add up. This feels like a villagery mistake to make. wow that feels like a personal question, I barely know you bro My description mentions something I dislike, but I don't think it's a weakness. But I'm not going to get into that. To clarify what I've discussed, after someone whose alignment is not revealed dies, during the subsequent cycle, I submit three yes/no questions to the GM who returns a response during the next rollover. I think it makes sense that that's when alignments will be revealed as well, but that's just speculation. I noticed this thread doesn't have a 'please dont game break' tag', so now would be a fine time to mention that if items exist, we should be using Striker as an alignment scanner by handing him things and checking who ends up with them. If you think Striker might be a Thief whose playing us into that exact scenario, at least pass something directly to someone else and then we know you didn't submit the NK. That suggestion assumes an NK will at some point exist. My approach to conversion games is to act as normal and take out the original elims first, then hope you get more info later. So I'm hoping this round was a one-off. It's not unheard of for games to not have an elim kill C1 if the team is a little overpowered even. Annnd that's my problem with yesterday's exe. Besides the part where Mat almost didn't die, it felt a lot like the game where outed e!Thug me just spent like four IRL days arguing my innocence until people started doubting themselves enough to switch. Formatting aside, I appreciated the reads list, but I feel like if Mat knew his alignment would be hidden, he's capable of faking one. But here's where I get confused. Dying e!Mat would have for sure submitted the NK. He asked who was in the lead at one point, which I thought might have been him having some kind of vote manip, but his role flip disproved that. So he likely had a free action, unless it was a Soothe item or he passed an item. My gut doesn't think the fact that he died means it's possible for him to be evil, but I'm conflicted. And my gut about you, Kas, is that it'd be a mistake to so strongly push a mix C1 and use your vote manip you might have to claim and expose. But I believe your own argument that e!you would be forced into a slugfest because of your playstyle. :P. So if you could confirm your alignment with some vote manip on Striker, that'd be fabulous. guys you don't need to claim vote manip, we know it exists Speaking of vote manip, there was a weird exchange where Arman decided to 'keep their vote in reserve', faced with a split between Mat and Stick. Except they'd greened out Stick's name on their reads list so they should have wanted to protect them, so I was wondering if it was a ruse to hide the fact they're a Rioter. But they've claimed Regular. Why do you think Regs will be the first target of the elims, whoever said that? Wouldn't they hit the power roles? I've been meaning to ask, is your wincon compatible with ours? Will you be yeeted out of the game if you win?
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I know that voice... Striker, does your role let you swap people's accounts!? Out of curiosity, what were you going to bring up?
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I think I figured out what the catch is! :D. Why? The side of this job no one talks is about is immediately after you vote someone off, you then have to go say heyy, would you mind answering some questions now? If you're village, @Matrim's Dice if you're allowed to selectively provide no response, could you please give no answer to the first question you would otherwise answer no to? And please answer yes to question three if you're capable of lying. Double tap makes sense mechanically, although unless they knew about the vote manipulation or had reason to suspect Mat was a Thug, I'm not sure why they would unless they submitted the order very early in the round and forgot about it. Could have been redirected to Mat too. Or straight roleblocked. Or this was the product of an inactive/inexperienced elim team. My bet is TJ gave you an identical role description to the one you had in the game you were a neutral in and he made it impossible for you to win. :P. Why'd ya claim? Normally, this is when I'd say Stick and Mat are cleared because they were the two leading wagons by a long shot and the elims would have used their votes to better protect their own if they'd cared about their survival. But then a random Karnatheon wagon popped up. And five votes were moved. So my instinct is to believe we didn't get that lucky, but I'm hesitant. Off the cuff, unordered reads list: Annnd that's the extent of my brain power right now. I'll check back after essay writing is done for the day. EDIT: Devo
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See? Now we know this is an items game! :D. The reason my vote was on Illwei was because I didn't like how aggressively they were pushing the Stick exe. The easy explanation was that it helped e!Mat, but e!Illwei wouldn't be questioning it so hard right now unless they are distancing from a v-v trainwreck. This is my mental note to go back and check if that wagon helped anyone else avoid votes. I dislike the argument that we should decide our kill based on the information it might provide. That only really works if we kill an elim, in which case, there's better reasons to kill elims. :P. Ashbringer doing vote analysis pre flip to try and direct traffic pings me as being all sorts of odd. But the conclusion that the Stick train seems less organic is a good point. This post reads like how elims justify their votes. Is that vote a wristwatch, because it looks like a role-exe. Actually I'm more pinged by the core reason that they want to see how they handle being in the lead, because the vote has stuck. And PM Saftey!Devo expresses an uncharacteristic desire for a claim, but then talks themselves out of it, which could be them making an argument on behalf of teammate!Mat. Mat I see that I've been @ ed, but I'm probably not going to get to those for a while.
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@Thaidakar the Ghostblood, if you haven't already, in your GM PM, you should ask TJ to give you an example of how your role works and when and how you need to submit your actions. I've played more than a few games where I messed up because I misunderstood my role, so learn from my mistakes. :D. The line Thaid asking 'what's an elim?' felt genuine to me. Ashbringer, my stance on the discussion of me is that I'm tentatively going to support the people who think I'm village. Just a hunch. :P. Kas missed the point of me making distro prompts entirely. Since when does STINK do ISOs? I'll note that Mat brings up his meta a lot regardless of alignment and Aman calling his post possible tunneling when it seemed quite well reasoned to me strikes me as odd. On the other hand, just as I started thinking the Mat train caught on too easily, a number of other votes wandered in. Current theory is e!Illwei is protecting e!Mat by pushing a Stick mix. Stick's post about their voting hesitance felt villagery. It feels early to be roleclaiming, Mat, but I think you already know my stance on whether you should do it or not. :P.
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Hey. Hey Karnatheon. I really like the flavor of this game. It's a shame Death by Pizza go reworked, because this might have fit well into it. Brandon has plenty of sentient objects throughout his work though, you could try and shoehorn something in. Or as TUA said, just time it right. I feel like this game is vulnerable to game breaking from well timed claims. The elims could lie to confuse things, but they get one shot at that each, so if the village chooses the other person, they can't retract their claim and continue being effective. And if they hammer, it'll be obvious who is on that team. The village wouldn't even need to mass claim all at once, although if they did and there's multiples of roles, they might be able to stay ahead of the NKs. They'd just have to say everyone who is role X, claim and we'll add one of you today. I suppose that opens them up to the possibility of the elims crippling them at some point with systematic NKing of key roles, but it feels like people are going to have to claim at some point if they want to be exed anyway, so my gut says it'll be a claimfest so that needs to be hashed out.
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Skmurph wanted them all to take more salt. It made them taste better.
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Would you like to be sent a PM from a PM person? I have a very specific theory that you didn't want to say 'TJ is evil because he's in the elim doc' because then we'd think you're in the elim doc too, so you said that instead. And it wasn't a knock on your game. Technically both sides had the same abilities. But because they were all identical, there was potential for some clearing based on even general descriptions and people claiming their kills. This game is probably different, but that begs the question: what did TJ do that made this need to be blackout? If you want to RP, go ahead and post it. Preferably in italics. People keep it going as a side activity for when they're bored, or want to respond to the writeup or other RP. But since it has little impact on the game, I'd say it makes up less than 20% of the posted content? Some people get more into it than others and will convey suspicions and comments through RP, but it's really up to you how much you want to embrace it.
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I'm waffling between this being e!you doubling down or this being the type of guess a vanillager would make. Since it's a blackout game, I believe we need some level of claiming to get a sense of what the catch is (coughalsoMat'sgamewasverymechanicallysolvablecough). My initial assumption was that it was everyone had Epic powers, but TUA's defence of Devo was so indirect that it felt genuine. (Village points to them, by the way.) If the elims want to kill me, go right ahead, but I was treating my role as basically an over-glorified vanilla. There's not much practical use for it besides keeping everyone honest in PMs and checking actions. I was going to have to reveal it eventually anyway if I was told something important.
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Weren't you the one who said during Mat's game that the secrecy of blackout distros usually favor the elims? Kas Illwei XD. I use Vanilla and Regular interchangeably. But thank you.
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I do. What I'm trying to figure out is if we all have them, or if there's vanillas like Devo is claiming to be. Basically I get to ask dead people questions, but only if their alignment hasn't been officially confirmed. Which implies that that's a possibility. Also, it's unclear if they're allowed to lie. Is anyone else not an Epic?
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Mist on Wharf actually makes more sense! I like it! But your original name is great, no need to cave to pier pressure. Are you saying you're not an Epic of any kind? hiss no, I despise puns interesting take
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don't mind me mixing names up... it was JungleFiend, my PM buddy. In my defense, I also keep reading the thread title as Frog of War, so.
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wow. He was your best friend and you don't even know. A few days ago: "Okay, we're almost at the base! Let's do a role call. Enpecee?" "Here." "Duncan Wendy McDonalds, whose full name I know because I'm a good friend?" "Hurgraaaaachmphgrii." "Wow, your morning voice sure is deep! Thanks for the verbal acknowledgement of your continued survival!" "Grnoprobbgrlem." (His name is Duncan. Feel free to embellish characters/events.) * Last game, e!JNV was asking questions like that and I told them it's cool to roleclaim, but if he's evil he should check with the elim doc about it first. And then he went silent for a bit. But he didn't actually claim after that, so I didn't suspect them when I really should have. :P. Point is, non-partisan assistance is probably the way to go. This implies we make informed decisions later in the game, which I would like to dispute. :P. Speaking of ominous feelings, did anyone else get a weirdly specific role that TJ is PAFOing all questions about? what's your plan then?
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Huh. That's a weird way of putting it if, as I was assuming, someone's got a PM making role. Kas * Earlier in the week: No one was sure where the 1930s-era typewriter had come from, but it lay in front of the group, having just come smashing into the ground at a very high speed, as if someone strong and nearby had just heaved it into the air to get everyone’s attention. “I say, you don’t see that every day. Blimey, someone’s even gone and typed on it.” The page read: PLKEASER ERAT MOORE SALKT As if just propelled in a similar manner, a large cloth bag smashed down next to it and split open to reveal a granular white substance. “Did someone… well it’s all on the ground now, innit. We can’t eat that! Sorry lads, no more salt for us.” From the back of the group came a sorrowful moan. It was probably just the sound of the wind. Probably.
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>.> Inactivity is how you get band from the game. That said, I'm in midterm season, so my activity might also be sporadic.
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Nice to see JNV among us. Gaining experience is good. I'm also not going to read the rules for a while, but I'm in. Signing up as Ivory Tavish. Centuries ago, their ancestor signed an exclusivity contract with a budding merchant company that guaranteed him and his descendants perpetual right of first refusal to be the Head Carpenter of any ship they sailed. After a series of mergers and technological developments over hundreds of years, that company now flies starships without a speck of wood on board, but the contract stands. A freeloader from a long line of freeloaders, Survivor Head Carpenter Ivory is the worst person to have on deck in an emergency, but they're technically a Senior Officer, so the Captain is stuck with them. :P.
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I did a just for fun version of word sneak in QF51 if you want to read through that to see how it plays out. Everyone had a short sentence or word they had to sneak into their posts three times during the game for a bonus prize. If I recall correctly, about half were guessed by the end of it, but some people snuck them in quite cleverly. The phrases are listed in the GM spreadsheet. https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/96341-quick-fix-51-i-love-dragons/?do=findComment&comment=1204787
