Archer

I have been beguiled niel Can someone check my math here (I didn't read the last game) Three elims Informant tells Contact identity of an elim (50% chance they're the Insider) Contact blabs, then we exe the elim. But holdup, now there's only two elims, so the bad one submits the NK on the remaining one and wins under the altered rules. So actually the Insider should blab and sacrifice themselves to take out... Why can't they just reveal all the identities? I could probably figure this out by reading the other game hey drake, you're evil, tell me how this works royalbee

Surprise! It's me, Ylath of Wyllion! I'm going to vote for neil

I volunteer to take Alv's spot in a re-run, @|TJ|

Cue villagers walking in and blue texting the fact that they were busy all weekend :P. I do feel that losing to action economy is part of the punishment for losing so many teammates, but that's more of a roles thing than an activity thing. Hm My personal preference would be a combination of enhanced filtering in the later stages (lower the threshold to a single cycle) plus the ability to submit the NK in advance during the preceding Day turn (possibly with conditions in case their target is exed). I understand if an elim can't get on in a 24 hour round, but I feel that they should be obligated to log in during the 72 hour cycle. If they don't, they die, as would any villager who does the same. The idea of an elim lurking doesn't sit right with me. I'll also bring back my suggestion that I big games, the game should end if just one elim remains versus a sizable village contingent, to compel more teamwork from the elims. 90%* of the time, deepwolfing results in a lengthy finish but a predictable loss, but it's usually their best shot, so they still do it. (Ignore the fact that Beagle played both approaches well this game.) It'd make the end game more exciting by making votes have meaning, since they have to actually contest them. Elims just sitting back and letting the villagers control the thread in the late game and hoping they choose wrongly is unfun. And the grounding principle of that is if an elim comes up with a plausible lie for why they won't be NKed and proceeds to bus the entire game, they shouldn't be rewarded for it. Not saying that's ever happened, but theoretically, it would suck. *90% of the time, it works every time

I think you mean Obi-Wan's Laser

Game pitch: QF comprised of two groups in separate PMs. Each round, the groups vote to steal one person from the other PM. Probably make fresh PMs each time. Probably need a rule about not being able to vote someone twice in a row, otherwise they'll swap the same people indefinitely. Elim goal: get all their members to the same PM. Don't have a shared doc or kill. Village goal: survive X rounds. Distro would be something like A 4v;2e : B 4v;2e. A 3;2 ratio is too easy for the elims to hammer.

:(. Allow me to introduce you to graduate studies, the best way to keep your schedule open for SEing before life gets in the way No wonder I couldn't guess anyone else's convention game challenge, those are tricky to spot! I need to read the Bondsmiths' and Lightweavers' posts to see what they said. I enjoyed the beginning. Thanks for running this, GM, IM! Edit: And good job, Neil. I look forward to seeing you apply your skills for good instead of evil

To be fair to you, your claim timing was probably NAI. Your mistake was trying to pocket me, tripping my paranoia defences. :P. Then throw in the contrast between how you and JNV approached poisoning, and the relationship Devo established with you by saving you D1, in the context of some villagey play by everyone else. And you weren't super interested in finding the Forsaken. I could have made a case based on tone reads, but I hate debating those so I took the lazy out. My other gambit plan was to claim Dragon, but Raven's veteran claim meant we had a way of checking Dragon claimants. Forsaken claiming Dragon is, unfortunately, a great way to win the game imo Thank you for not unleashing your quokka army on me :3.

That was fun! -The vote for everyone strategy to weed out Dragon claims early is effective. I'd rather save us the trouble by making the rule that the Dragon must claim before Rollovet. -Wisdom set up a nice collab with V!Poisoner to get a trustworthy Forsaken scan. I did not expect that I was drunk... Or that JNV was drunk and couldn't poison me... Glad that never mattered or I might have been very confused! -Aeoryi's role switch claim was a solid indication of them not being Forsaken. Hard to counter claim that. -I know you said it might have been either alignment, but E!Poisoner/Innkeeper felt predictable. Also predictable was giving the Forsaken a 'tidy' role: one that wasn't too complicated, lest they mess up their fakeclaims when they don't know they've been poisoned etc. Perhaps giving them multiple role options to choose from when fake claiming would have given them more control over their fate. -I don't know why the Forsaken didn't bus. When I saw Devo's EOD post D1, everything clicked into place for me. -I was actively ignoring mech analysis past D1 because Hael's results didn't match my reads (kudos to Mat for lying from the start to confound mech analysis). How people interacted with the roles they had was really telling of their alignment. I think the unfamiliar environment helped us more than the scan results did. It's possible that'll be reduced the next time around, or by a different elim team composition. The team having a good understanding of the rules might have prevented them from being easily village read. Aeoryi publicly discussing their rules confusion felt pretty genuine. -Lying about having scanned Devo did what I wanted it to. I got Raven to attempt to demonstrate their role, checking them and forcing Mat's hand to check he wasn't actually the Forsaken. After the D1 no votes, I wasn't confident in the village's killer instinct. It was a controlled risk because if I'd been wrong, I'd get a v!Devo flip that confirms their scan on me was valid. My apologies for misleading y'all. I probably wouldn't have done it in a longer game. Time crunch was weighing on me. -I'm against having PMs. I feel like the spirit of the game is to force public claims and collaboration about that info, and I enjoyed that part. Good job, team. Thanks for running this, Kas, Drake!

More importantly, if you're certain they blocked you, you're certain they aren't the Forsaken. Exing e!JNV harms the village by cutting our opportunities to hit the Forsaken from two to one. I won't hound the point too hard, but Mat not searching for the Forsaken isn't a great look.

Yeah I have no indication of whether JNV really poisoned me or not, but I'm sticking with my reads from earlier. The only world where we exe JNV or Mat after Raven's kill was blocked is if we decide on e!Raven. Otherwise, e!poisoner/drunkifier is certainly not the Forsaken. Exing the Forsaken is our only priority. Anyway, I'm pretty committed to the idea that e!Mat (wow that name looks weird seeing it for the first time, but I approve of the change!) lied about who they made drunk N0, and all subsequent scans that say e!Devo are trustworthy. Devo

There's an imposter / apostrophe joke that needs to be made out of this :P.

You can do me and assume the risk I'm lying and still have a testable action. I'd rather that than nothing or messing with Aeoryi tbh. Hitting Devo doesn't do anything for us, so I'd at least like the IKYK conundrum (no offence, just covering bases). Well I guess we'll see based on whether Raven is successful in firing off a kill tonight.

No, it's a literal request to do it publicly. Anyone want to be hit by JNV?

If you believe in either e!JNV, which Mat says must be true, or e!Mat, which I think is true, either way, you're going to be poisoned both Nights that are left. If you attempt a kill and it fails, Mat will blame JNV. But look at our posts at the start of this thread. I said (and btw Mat ostensibly trusts me) I found the Forsaken! Mat didn't even entertain it. They just talked about e!JNV. E!JNV doesn't matter if we have the Forsaken. Maybe Mat thinks JNV's the Forsaken though. Well then if your kill fails, it can't have been JNV, because he's not really a poisoner. So you'll know Mat is evil, for either blocking your kill, or not considering forsaken!Devo. And that pretty strongly helps the f!Devo case If people who were poisoned by Mat repeat their scans, they should get the same results, right?

Mat definitely will if you wait until next Cycle, assuming they're evil. They will this Cycle too, in all likelihood. But it's better to find out now that they're committed to blocking you from getting a Devo flip than to wait on that information. There's no world where V!Mat blocks you, so either you flip Devo or you get an answer on Mat's alignment. To articulate the case the old fashioned way, we're looking for someone faking their role. -Raven will demonstrate their role, and was an early claimant of a demonstrable role. -Raveness / Wiz was publicly confused about their scan results, spending a lot of time figuring out how they work. -Hael's been downright useful, and I imagine the elims are smart enough not to claim last. Pushed the Mat wagon early, building a great case for it. -Aeoryi made a meme out of their results. If I was patterned (which is what, 6% chance it hit me?), they'd be my guess for the Forsaken. But otherwise, I don't feel like you make a meme out of fakeclaim results. -JNV saying they didn't poison anyone reads as very villagey. -Devo scanned me as village. I discussed earlier why I think May's play has seemed off. Devo's post at end of day yesterday didn't read as reasonable, hence why I pulled the trigger on scanning them. Today, Mat started pushing a e!JNV theory, which e!him needs to do to get the momentum off him. But he didn't even do it that hard. I'll return to my assessment of him as being fairly passive so far. It comes across in the way he articulates his points. Anyway, he's locked in on e!JNV because it makes sense for the elims to have a poisoner. Eg. Either Mat or JNV is evil. But there was zero consideration of e!Devo. He dismisses it immediately, which I'll argue points to him being protective of her. Mat, if you wanted us to follow your results onto someone like e!JNV, we needed your flip yesterday, but you voted against that. All this buttresses the validity of my scan. So I think you should shoot Devo, Raven, while expecting Mat will prevent you from doing that for the rest of the game. Either we get your and Devon's flip (and probably end the game) or we determine Mat is evil. Mat will argue e!JNV blocked you instead, as he's setting up now in advance, but perhaps we can have @JNV poison someone else to prove they didn't hit Raven? Everyone is tainted by Mat though, the only options in a vacuum that make sense are me and Devo. At least if you do Devo, it sets up a dichotomy. Hael post from earlier, for roles reference:

You have established they are not the evil Dragon, making them more exable!

I made an impulsive decision Devo is the Forsaken. Which means we never get to exe Mat, but that's okay :P.

A little redundant given that Devo scanned me, but ok Suppose you green scan Mat and we don't waste our exe because of that. That means we get to try one other person with our exe. Or you can exe Mat now, and try one other person with your scan. Same result to you, but exing Mat publicly establishes the reliability of his scans, which are more directly useful. Or shows he's evil, which is also good to determine with certainty. We wouldn't bother exing Mat next cycle anyway since he's probably not the Forsaken. We'd just probably know he's evil. Whereas exing him now definitely shows he's evil as we take our two shots at the Forsaken.

My initial preference for a No Vote C1 gives way to the upside of a Mat flip specifically. If we get an elim flip, we still have C2 when we can exe with impunity. If we skip this exe, we guarantee we can vote C2, but who were we going to vote for anyway besides Mat? He can poison two of us I'm not going to force you to claim, but there is reputational costs to delaying. There's no reason for the Forsaken not to bus, so I'm not easily clearing you. Might have been more willing if you'd claimed earlier. This game is designed in a way that makes mass claiming a great village strat (balanced by the e!Innkeeper probably). If you can reasonably claim a role, I'll be more inclined to revisit existing claims. Until then, you're the obvious choice. It's probably for the best that I hold my question anyway. If its accuracy can be guaranteed, and our suspect pool has narrowed, I'll probably use it to guess at Forsaken candidates to inform the C3 exe. That can be affected by poison and relies on your word. A public flip is way more reliable, and then unlocks his alignment clears as trustworthy. Or more likely shows he's evil Do you have someone you'd inclined to exe C2 besides Mat? Otherwise, let's do it now.

Had a similar read. JNV not claiming initially tripped my Spidey senses. Mat made the two points I was going to as I read the most recent discussion: JNV late claiming is huh, and what they said about Resolute. Mind meld is real, which is why I'm reconsidering my initial e!read of them. Fair point that this is what Mat should have done. What poisoner messes with our info roles? Mat would say he got two scans out of it. But he wasn't in a rush to present that info. He offered to role claim because he's gotten burned being the last person to claim before, and he has the luxury of having an unaffiliated role. But even then he wasn't jumping to claim it, he had to be asked. If you have two villagers, do you not just blow your cover and mention that? Doing some distro speculation, his role messes with everyone else, but he gets 4 alignments before exlo. That means there's only 3 people he won't know the alignment of. If he flips green, that's pretty powerful. In a small game, that doesn't feel balanced in village hands. (Mat alluded to his dislike of distro speculation, which has also burnt him in the past when evil.) I think the ability to make villagers drunk to counter the hefty info advantage they'll develop unchecked (with conservative play from people like JNV) makes sense in evil hands. Mat started off the game saying he trusted me for the mind meld, and I don't believe Mat gives me trust for just good observations. He'll trust me for doing something brazen, but not just for good points that early. Mat also deferred to me at one point, and it felt uncharacteristicly passive. I've talked myself back into a Mat exe. I strongly believe he's evil, which means we still get two shots at the Forsaken. No-claim Hael is probably my Forsaken suspect right now, followed by maybe Devo. They tripped some alarms I need to explore later. @JNV would you be willing to poison me? If I know the answer to my yes/no question is false, it's a better tool.

Nifty. And as Mat said, I'll be asking today or next Day. Trying to decide if I want to intentionally be poisoned to guarantee results accuracy. I understand it from your POV, although I think I would have hit Raven instead. They don't need their role right now This seems villagey Thank you for your service Roles, for reference:

Unfortunately that fits with my e!poisoner theory. Who'd you scan last Night? I am Wisdom. The broken role. :D. Who else wants to claim? And Devo, you mentioned a role that knows what role isn't in the distro. I remember that being a thing but can't find the role. Can you help me nail down who knows that?

I think you must hit the Forsaken, which is a specific Darkfriend. Even if you hit the other elim, you die instead. Oh you figured that out. Basically it's most useful as a threat to deal with a Dragon claimant who is making us scared to exe them. Let's roleclaim now and live with the consequences. It's our best way to make the exe a meaningful process. I specifically want to see what Mat claims because they seem too trusting of me I flagged this in the committee process as a likely issue, you can't say you weren't warned :P.

Nice edit :P. I am not claiming dragon. Do we have an Aeoryi