Dreamstorm

The cliffhangers thing is new, right? One of the things I liked about WoK is that even though it took a while for me to get into the book, each chapter felt like a "story" unto itself where you weren't left hanging at the end. It made it easier to read (well, listen to for me) in small chunks and not get lost due to needing to remember exactly how a prior chapter ended. Chapters feel less complete in this book so far. I hope this isn't foreshadowing for how OB will end On the phrases of modern dialect, I don't personally notice them, but in reading WoR amazon review lately (because what else does one do in one's spare time), this was a really common complaint. I have to imagine it's a stylistic choice to make the interpersonal interactions more relatable?

@Stark so the way you see it, there is no possibility of a happy ending for Roshar at the end of the full series?? Even #2 seems like an ending which would just put the planet back to where it was pre-book 1. (Odium fairly contained and biding his time.) I might like my HEA too much

I think whether or not Rlain is/becomes a Kaladin squire will be a big clue regarding whether or not Parshendi/Parshman Radiants are possible. (I personally think they are possible, and more specifically think Eshonai will become a Radiant. I'm guessing this has been discussed somewhere on here before though!)

I believe it's actually "I am terrified" after Pattern (presume this is Pattern, we haven't been introduced to him yet though) asks "What are you?". He then says "This is true," and she can access Shadesmar. WoK Ch. 45, Shadesmar

Whoa, whoa, so Rhyshadium might be the Knights Radiant of horses (horses with spren??) I was assuming they were a different species altogether, but wow I love this. Do we have more info (WoB?) on this topic? More horses!!!

Oh - I forgot Taravangian knew! This almost seems a little too cut and dry that the shardbearer was Heleran though... I have no trust, haha. I'm hoping we see this play out a bit more, as we have a lot to learn about Heleran and his backstory before his (supposed, most likely) death. Spoilered because it mentions forbidden things:

Adolin can attest to that - smiling, satisfied, a man #kadolinforever

I was loving @Harry the Heir's theory until you mentioned this... Sanderson has promised no more death fake outs for a while, right? I did read a WoB that said Amaram definitively knew the identity of the shardbearer Kaladin killed (edit: now copied below), but if it WAS Heleran, do we see anything odd in how Amaram acts about Shallan? That shardbearer's name has to be something Amaram remembers well (due to the shards themselves, the way Amaram acquired them, and Amaram's own secret society connections), so I can't imagine he wouldn't have put two and two together about Dalinar's soon-to-be daughter-in-law. INTERVIEW: Sep, 2012 Cosmere Q&A - 17th Shard (Verbatim) CHEESE NINJA Did Amaram ever find out who the Shardbearer that Kaladin killed was? BRANDON SANDERSON Yes. TAGS amaram, kaladin, stormlight archive,

Hey - I don't want this to get personal, but it really feels like you are deliberately misinterpreting me. I included my own quotes below to show I am in NO WAY saying Adolin "doesn't like" or have "real feelings" towards Shallan (those sections of your post bolded above). In fact I have explicitly said the opposite. I provided evidence that there is no textual support that Adolin is desperately in love with Shallan and she is "the one". It feels like you don't like the fairly objective fact of this (lack of textual support) so you are twisting it around to something you CAN easily defend - that Adolin does like Shallan and has real feelings for her. Maybe there are others debating that Adolin does not have romantic feelings toward Shallan, but I certainly, and explicitly, am not. I am discussing the intensity of Adolin's feelings, not that they exist. On the Dalinar/Navani point, also as I mentioned previously, that came from someone else saying Dalinar doesn't think about Navani when she isn't present. He does in fact do so. Yes, their relationship is at a VERY different stage. That is in fact my exact point... Adolin's feelings towards Shallan as presented to us by Sanderson are not as intense as Daliner's feelings towards Navani as presented to us by Sanderson, which (to me) makes sense given the stage of their relationship. Please take note of the "presented to us by Sanderson" language above; I do not know how Adolin feels about Shallan beyond what he's said and his thoughts in his POVs. But, Sanderson knows full well how to emphasize (sometimes painfully, i.e. Mistborn era 1 beginning of WoA) extreme romantic feelings. So far he hasn't done so with Adolin's feelings towards Shallan. I would note that you seem to now concede (maybe unintentionally) a point you tried to make earlier that Shallan is Adolin's Navani. Shallan could develop into someone whom Adolin is portrayed as feeling about the way Dalinar is portrayed as feeling about Navani, but at this moment in the story "neither is seen thinking about the other as often as Dalinar thinks about Navani". I am very happy with "giving [Adolin and Shallan] a bit of time to built up their relationship" - but are you?

He thinks about her even when she's not present in both of the flashback chapters so far. His love and obsession with Navani is a huge part of his character as presented by the author. So far, the author has not made the effort to present Adolin's feelings for Shallan in the same manner. That doesn't mean those feelings aren't there, just that we as the reader haven't been shown them in an explicit manner. I'm not saying Adolin and Shallan should be at the same stage feelings-wise as Dalinar is with Navani, but whereas we have been very explicitly shown Dalinar's feelings, and thus no one doubts Dalinar feels incredibly intensely and it's not a subject of debate, we have not been given even close to this same level of clarity with regard to Adolin's feelings for Shallan.

I was responding to someone else who said that Dalinar isn't portrayed as thinking about Navani when she isn't present (and thus that it was not illustrative of anything that Adolin isn't portrayed as thinking about Shallan), which I didn't think was true

I don't think we have much support for Shallan being in love with/obsessed with Adolin either. (Once again I caveat that they are both interested in each other romantically so as to not be misunderstood.) On the other hand, I DO think Dalinar thinks about Navani a lot, even when she's not around, and this helps make it explicitly clear that Dalinar is in love/obsessed with Navani. I would argue that thinking about someone when you're doing something that has nothing to do with them (i.e. fighting in battle, young Dalinar as an example) is one of the hallmarks of love/obsession. That person is simply always on your mind.

One of the things I find interesting about this debate is that many people say they hate love triangles and even that they will not or may not enjoy the book should a love triangle emerge here. And I get it. I actually hate love triangles too; I read a lot of YA, and I don't enjoy and will even avoid series' which have a love triangle. I realized very early on in WoR we were headed down this road (as soon as the Adolin/Kaladin antagonism started - so I want to say Chapter 4) and texted my friend who recommend SA to me (and knows my love triangle hatred) all, ughhhhh whyyyyy. She assured me it wasn't bad and didn't overwhelm the story. And I've found I really enjoyed the storyline! I read Mistborn Era 1 after SA and found love triangle to be annoying (not enough to put me off the series, but I could have done without), so I can see why readers don't have faith in Sanderson to execute correctly though.

I know we don't have as many POVs of Adolin, but we do have some. I actually looked through them all since he met Shallan, and I see very little support for the idea that Adolin is in love with or obsessed with Shallan such that he would perceive her as "the one". Of course, he could be and not telling us in the those POVs, but I think the fact we DO see him think things, and they aren't about the fact he's in love/obsessed with Shalln, means that the author isn't explicitly trying to make this point. Please let me know if I missed any of these: WOR Ch. 37, Matter of Perspective: First time he sees Shalln; he thinks she's hot when she walks by. WOR Ch. 50, Uncut Gems: Immediately after wine/highstorm date. Most of this is about Sadeas and brooding on that. He thinks about Shallan, mentioning she is marvelous, exotic, witty, not smothered in Alethi propriety, smart and doesn't make him feel stupid. WOR Ch. 51, Heirs: Eshonai meeting, no mention of Shallan. WOR Ch. 53, Perfection: Elit duel and aftermath, this is the only time I found where we see a Shallan/Adolin interaction from Adolin's perspective, he thinks he's not unhappy to see her and that their relationship is awkward due to not knowing where they stand. WOR Ch. 56, Whitespine Uncaged: Four on one duel, burns Shallan's glyph and tells Navani she is quite marvelous. WOR Ch. 81, The Last Day: Start of Battle of Narak, no mention of Shallan. WOR Ch. 82, For Glory Lit: Battle of Narak, mentions Shallan as telling him rock formations are building. WOR Ch. 83, Time's Illusion: Battle of Narak, tells Skar Shallan is a clever woman. WOR Ch. 84, The One Who Saves: Battle of Narak, no mention of Shallan. WOR Ch. 85, Swallowed by the Sky: Szeth meeting/fight, no mention of Shallan. WOR Ch. 89, The Four: Killing Sadeas, notes Shallan may be the most important woman in the world because she is a Radiant and wonders how he fits in. OB, Ch. 2, One Problem Solved: Wandering Urithiru, no mention of Shallan. OB, Ch. 10, Distractions: Introspection with Gallant, no mention of Shallan. I feel like I need to emphasize so this isn't taken the wrong way, I'm not saying AT ALL that Adolin doesn't like Shallan in a romantic sense. That seems pretty clear. I'm just saying that from the text it's very much a matter of personal interpretation (and to me, a bit of a stretch) to say he is in love with her and she is to him "the one".

I would squeal in utter delight. #kadolinforever

Kaldolin I'm taking beasties to mean romance

I think we're talking past each other... I certainly don't think I know (even a fraction) of all discussion which had ever happened on SA. I certainly didn't mean to give that impression. And as far as I know, there is no theory that Kaladin should die to make way for Adolin. That wasn't what I was saying. I was saying I got the impression (my impression!, based on my admittedly imperfect knowledge!) from reading this forum that Adolin is better liked than Kaladin.

For clarification, I'm not saying posters seem to be advocating killing off Kaladin! I'm saying the sense I personally get in reading this forum is that if there was a poll which was based on the assumption that either Kaladin or Adolin HAD to die, Kaladin would be the one chosen to be offed. But this is just my perception! I see those polls linked a few pages back tell a different story. I don't keep track of who posts what (though I do know you are one of the most vocal Adolin-ites), so it's possible it is the same people disliking the idea of Kaladin being with Shallan repeatedly that led to my impression. I didn't quote it, but I found your historical summary of Adolin among the fan base to be really interesting. I very recently read WoK and WoR (finishing the latter in late July), and first came upon this forum trying to see if anyone else sensed the Kaladin-Adolin romantic connection (Now after knowing more of Sanderson's background and having read some of his other books, I realize Kadolin is highly, highly unlikely to become reality ) As I stated in my first post on this thread, I didn't expect to find such antagonism towards the Kaladin-Shallan match, but given the history noted, I can understand why the pro-Adolin posters became so entrenched in their position.

I have no idea Shallan's deep, inner feelings for Kaladin. (Though I tend to agree they are currently either non-existent or far below the surface as we don't hear her give much thought to them.) But, I don't think you can accurately state Shallan didn't change and grow in the chasm scenes. Our author, through placing the character in trying situations and through her spontaneous admission, had Shallan do several things which were extraordinary for her character, namely admit she (1) "collects faces" (Shallan is herself shocked at this admission), (2) has a perfect memory and can translate that into drawing, (3) has a shardblade and (4) killed her father. Whether or not these huge (for Shallan's character) admissions/truths mean anything vis a vis her feelings for Kaladin remains to be seen, but I don't think you can argue they are not significant in Shallan's personal growth and development as our author very pointedly chose for it to happen during one event and in front of one other character. (Keep in mind she hasn't even admitted (4) to anyone else, and of the above, that was the one which was objectively not required to be disclosed by the stressful situation.) Btw, if I have a ship, it's Kaldolin, so I'm neutral in who end up with Shallan (if either of them), if that matters

I agree with you and get it makes complete sense in-world, but I'm still sad Adolin hasn't progressed from the point where he's objectifying Kaladin to where he can actually see Kaladin as his equal. I'm just now realizing that those two haven't interacted "on screen" since right before the bridges assassination attempt (I don't count Kaladin coming into the Szeth battle as that wasn't an interpersonal interaction), so I think I expected developments in their relationship equality which weren't warranted from the text. I KNOW. But, I'm not 100% convinced we won't go there. (99% convinced, but that 1% holds out hope )

I'm surprised as well, but I completely understand the desire to anthropomorphize characters in any fiction. Some people analyze by looking at what the author actually shows on the page in the scenes he chooses to present to the reader and the thoughts and words the characters say and think, and some people like to search for the meaning behind those scenes, thoughts and words and what they could or may mean and how that will cause the action to play out in the future. This seems to add to the vastly different viewpoints about the same scene! Looking at our "love triangle" based on what is shown on the page (in Oathbringer only): Shallan and Adolin: They spend time together, Shallan is enjoying it, Shallan thinks she likes Adolin quite a bit. We don't have an Adolin viewpoint on this in OB (right?) Shallan and Kaladin: Kaladin thinks about Shallan (once that we are shown, alludes to more than that), he doesn't like that he does, he states not a possibility because she is engaged to Adolin and a light eyes. Shallan rarely thinks about Kaladin, when she does it's pretty schizophrenic (Brightlord once, peasant the other time.) Kaladin and Adolin: Kaladin thinks fondly about how Adolin cares about clothes. Adolin says how shocking it is Kaladin (i.e. bridgeboy since he doesn't say his name) has a shardblade. (Digression but this bit makes me SO sad (as a member of Team Kaldolin) that Adolin is reducing Kaladin to the object of "bridgeboy" and "darkeye" versus acknowledging he is a person with a name - I was fine with the derisive "bridgeboy" name when A and K were in their "hatred" stage or later when the "bridgeboy" moniker seemed to be an inside joke between the two, but the use here in not in jest; it seems to be just how Adolin sees Kaladin - an unnamed darkeyed, bridgeboy object who shouldn't have a shardblade except that times have changed, and this after Adolin spent all that time trying to prove to Kaladin he wasn't awful! Here I go with reading so much into a simple bit of prose )

Oh man, I dread doing this too, but.... one of my thoughts about the potential importance of May Aladar is that Adolin will be "influenced" to marry her in order to tie the Kholin princedom tighter to the Aladar princedom. Or that Adolin will become close to her in investigating his murder/confessing it to her and thus progress into a relationship with her that will be politically "encouraged". (Please don't eviscerate me!)

I find the hatred towards the Shallan-Kaladin pairing fascinating, especially when I don't sense the vehement dislike of the love triangle in Mistborn (I posted a Q&A about this actually), which is my mind was never as emotionally developed as this one already is. (Apparently there is one in Elantris too, but I haven't read that.) I see a couple things at play: People on this forum generally like Adolin better than Kaladin (my guess is if there was a poll about who posters would rather have killed off, Kaladin would win easily), so as a love triangle is often posed as some sort of "competition", the general sentiment is that posters (or maybe the most vocal posters) would like to see Adolin "win". Oddly, I don't get the sense people generally like Shallan much, but winning an undesirable prize is better than losing I guess The fact many people (most people?) becomes more entrenched in their views the more they have to defend them (i.e. our current political climate ). As a new SA reader, I've read older threads on this love triangle fairly recently, and the views were way more balanced immediately after WoR came out (and even the viewpoints of some posters who have current strong views were more balanced then.) I agree with someone in the main thread who said the slow rollout of chapters isn't helping this! Fantasy fans aren't big on romance in general, and the worry is that the romance will consume the entire plot if two of your headline characters have one. This one is pretty self-explanatory, and I don't find in the past Brandon has developed romances all that well (i.e. Mistborn book 1, some utterly adorable moments, but a massive logical leap from infatuation to sudden "love" in my mind), so I get it. So that's just my take - I find it interesting, and a bit baffling, that half of the "scenes I'd never want to see" posts are about not wanting the Shallan-Kaladin romance - it's such a small part of the overall scope of the books!

I first found this board while googling about the romances in Stormlight (specifically the possibility of Adolin-Kaladin romance, but that's another story ), and obviously found lots of threads about possible Kaladin/Adolin/Shallan love triangle, and primarily about how the idea was hated and (at least from my reading at the time) something Brandon was unlikely to do... Imagine my surprise when Mistborn has a love triangle! And a pretty classic one at that (girl protagonist who falls for the good guy (and prince to boot!) but is distracted from the romance by bad boy love interest.) Why the shock that Brandon would do this again? Or did everyone hate it and it's just hope he won't? If anything, at least the outcome in the Stormlight triangle isn't predetermined; I'm not even finished with Well of Ascension, and I'm 99.9% sure Elend is the winner.

(Sorry if this is re-post - it disappeared.) I completely agree with this. As a late comer, I read WoR immediately after WoK and remember being annoyed/bored by the first few chapters. (There was one titled Bridge Four which basically just reintroduced the crew and explained what they did in WoK.) Classic telling versus showing, which is not good writing, but also necessary for a series. (You already showed the character arcs in the prior book(s).) I think you lose the more casual reader in a series which doesn't do this (it has happened to me.) I'm readying Mistborn first trilogy now and am having this problem with the beginning of the second book... I've heard mixed reviews of it in general, so hoping it will improve once the expository phase is over! (I don't know how many times I can listen to )