Alderant

The only thing I see definitive from that quote is that magic is involved, somehow, and that it's something we've seen before, but not soulstamping. Brandon even explicitly states its not like a soulstamp, so what’s going on isnt some “magical overwriting“ like the soulcasting idea I mostly agree with your theory this time. I really do! I promise! My point is just that those changes start in a perceptual place, from organic desires, not from a magical, abstract imposition. I very much agree that the process those changes are made could very much be magical, I just think that the source isnt. Thank you for the praise! I work very hard to make sure my posts and arguments are well thought out. Glad I could lead you into a new idea! EDIT: Had to make some changes because my phone FREAKED and reverted to an earlier version.

You go up to the part that you want to quote, specifically, and highlight it with your mouse. It will pop up with a little black box that says "Quote this". Click it, and you get the above. Interesting. Tag me in it when you post it so I can read it without having to look for it. This is exactly what I'm talking about. It's too convoluted to make sense. Magical conflicts get messy, very quickly, because a magical conflict usually requires magic to solve. And that can leave readers with a very "Deus ex Machina" feel to it that makes the entire novel sour. Like I said, this isn't Brandon's style of writing. However, he does frequently use the magic systems as a conduit whereby the real "organic" conflict can take place, such as Kaladin's internal conflict in WoR over Elhokar. EDIT: Nice! Way to be adaptable. The difference is just whether you believe that change is magical or mental in nature... This confuses me a little bit. What do you mean?

Interesting idea, though from what you've presented there are some holes you'll need to work through. Specifically, the stick. If Shallan could simply "force" a change by feeding it enough stormlight, then why didn't the stick change to fire? In seriousness, however, your proposal hinges on the speculation that Shallan is actually using Soulcasting when she is Lightweaving. Granted, Fifth makes some compelling arguments that she may be, subconsciously, however there is not enough definitive proof within the text to declare that she is, as the text in question can be interpreted in many ways. We haven't seen, to date, any evidence of Soulcasting being a temporary process, which your theory would also have to account for, since the changes Shallan undergoes are temporary in nature. Also, Fifth's theory involves a being deliberately altering how their cognitive entity perceives itself, which is the point I made earlier about how Soulcasting works. You are missing out, my friend. As I mentioned above, fascinating magical systems often results in people ascribing everything to magic. This isn't Brandon's style of writing. His conflicts are organic in nature--they are about mundane, real-world things, not magical conflicts and feats (War of the Spider Queen, I'm looking at you right now). While magic is often the field, tool, and/or conduit whereby those conflicts take place, it's really important to keep in mind that the real conflict at hand is Shallan's mental struggle and identity crisis--not how she's using Lightweaving or Soulcasting. I'm sorry if I come off as harsh. I don't mean to be, but sometimes I can be a bit brusque--nearly every person who knows me has told me that at one point. If I ruffled some feathers...I'm sorry. Really, it is an interesting theory. Have a cookie.

Ahaha. I hate it when that happens. Can we just phrase it like this instead?

Oh don't worry on my account, I deal with a form of it as well. And I'm actually agreeing with you. This is a point I make frequently--a lot of people are quick to ascribe a magical explanation for the problems a character goes through because the magic systems are just so fascinating. I tend to think the other way--that these stories would play out much the same way without the magic system, and that the magic system is augmentative to the problems at hand, rather than the cause of those problems. Take Shallan for example--is her identity crisis the result of her use of the magic system, or is it the result of something already present that the magic system is magnifying? I look at it as the latter, some look at it as the former. From the sounds of it, you think of it as the latter as well.

Ehhh....it's not that she's losing her mind, per se, as much as it is she's losing her sense of self. Grief and trauma do funny things to people. Some run from it (like Shallan), some drown in it (like Kaladin), some become hard because of it (like Kelsier), others become soft because of it (like Vivenna). Note I don't mean soft as in "weak", but rather soft as in "pliable". And here is some ground here for a cosmere-aware explanation--considering the nature of how the magic systems are granted involves someone's soul developing "cracks". But I usually choose to ascribe it as effectation, rather than causation.

I think you hit the nail on the head. Soulcasting involves how an object identifies/sees itself, and affects a change on that object's Identity. The changes in the physical realm (as we've seen with Shai) are merely reflectation of that change in the cognitive realm. I think the refinements you've made to this theory are quite in line with what I was saying. My point wasn't that the combination of the magic was impossible, but rather that the magic was not the source of the changes. And I think, given the recent additions to Shallan's dialogue, your theory has merit. I don't actually disagree with a lot of this. Thank you for posting this, by the way. You gave me an inlet for a of thoughts I had when reading the chapters: I can see how you could argue that Shallan/Veil is referring to two people, rather than to herself. However, this isn't actually outside the realm of "method acting" (which you referenced). Method acting (which is a different technique to achieve the same goal to what I was talking about in the other thread) is actually very similar to what Shallan is doing by "going deeper". Method actors don't just debate how a character would think and perceive in their mind, they wholeheartedly jump into the role and for a time actually live as if they were that person. Which is exactly what Shallan has started doing since the "going deeper" comment. What I see going on here is that Veil is comparing "personas" at this point--kind of like weighing the pros and cons of who she is. We actually see her do the same with Radiant, but I just don't read this as being two separate people. I read this as comparing her personas, which she's done since she started adopting them. Lies and truth. Truth and lies. How these personas are her, and aren't. However, I will submit that stormlight is perhaps augmenting that effort in a rather unexpected way, and combined with her mental avoidance issues (running to these personas to avoid dealing with the pain), she is losing herself--which is a point I've made: that she's trying to destroy "Shallan" in her efforts to avoid the pain. That's partially indicated in the text: The above quoted text is split as it is because it reinforces a point I've made before: That "Shallan the bright-eyed lady" is a persona meant to guard against the pain of Shallan, the child. I will go into this more upon request, but it's a tangent to the main topic here. What's interesting to me here is that the reversion to Shallan doesn't seem to be intentional. If you notice, she actually switches between Veil and Shallan three times once things start going down, before switching to Radiant: Now, up until Shallan began using stormlight, she was maintaining the Veil persona pretty deeply. Indeed, all of your mention about persona analysis (my term) occurs prior to this. However, what is interesting here is that once she starts using stormlight, her personas become harder to maintain a hold on. Radiant's use came after she discovered the thing dive into a hole in the stone--which means Shardblade, and that means Radiant. And if "Shallan the light-eyes" is indeed a persona, and not Shallan's core, then our previous debate regarding stormlight and the personas takes on a new light, and might actually reinforce your theory. Once she enters the fight with Re-Shephir, she seems to become more grounded, and actually addresses her pain (which is a huge step!): This calls to a later passage during the cognitive battle with Re-Shephir: Notice in this segment that for the first time Shallan takes the aspects of both Veil and Radiant, but uses them as herself. So I respectfully submit this idea that runs alongside your theory (again, if anyone wants a more fully analysed theory, ask and I'll get it up on the forums at a later date): Child-Shallan, after murdering her mother, created a persona to avoid all of the trauma and mental anguish. This persona eventually became the "Shallan" that everyone met and interacted with. As Shallan begins to dive into more personas, augmented through a combination of the illumination and transformation surges, she begins to lose her sense of self, as she is not grounded in who she really is, but the fight with Re-Shephir causes her to become more grounded. (I'm sorry if my thoughts are disjunct. I'm tired and not at my best.) Finally, @Fifth of Daybreak, @Leyrann have some cookies! Edit: @Fifth of Daybreak Could you put the beginning text inside a quote to more easily differentiate what is from Oathbringer, what's from a Fifth of Daybreak fanfic , and what's from your theory?

Bad choice of words on my part. Your statement is correct—nonetheless the point still stands that Shallan refers to Radiant while under the persona of Radiant. I used act as in “pretense”, to describe what Shallan was doing, but I can see how my choice of words could lead to that misunderstanding. Hey, if Im getting a concession here, Ill take it. Good debate usually involves some give and take. Youve certainly presented some interesting ideas for me to chew on. Good enough for me. At this point, Im feeling the same way about your arguments. I guess we’ll just have to see where Brandon takes this and come back to it when there’s more information. Thanks.

That is a solid argument, and honestly the best one I've been presented with. I will concede your point on the magically induced nature of the personas. I definitely agree that she is able to dive deeper into them because of the Lightweaving. But this interpretation doesn't fully take into account all of the non-magical mental side-stepping and avoidance behavior she has exhibited. I'll explain more why in a minute (again, you'll have to wait for any textual quotes from WoR or WoK if I mention them). But first this: This isn't entirely true. They don't carry on conversations with each other, and in quoting what you did following this, you neglected a crucial line that follows: This is, while under the Radiant persona, Shallan referring to Radiant as an act. Now for analysis on what's going on with Shallan (from my point of view). Shallan has a lot of trauma. I think we can agree without the need for quoted text that Shallan's truths prohibit her from burying the subject matter of those Truths and hiding it from her consciousness. I'm sure there's some element involving her Surgebinding at work that allows her to so totally compartmentalize her memories and "lock them away." We've seen her doing that almost since her introduction. In your working backwards, it seems you're using the assumption that Radiant's usage is for external use, as with Veil. I've always taken it to be that Radiant's usage is primarily internal--it's a mental sidestep around one of her Truths. She hasn't come to the acceptance of her most recent Truth regarding her mother and the Patternblade. Numerous examples for that in the text, so I'm not going to quote it. Let's look at the entire text of Radiant's creation here, because I feel like you're picking a specific piece of the narrative that fits your point, while ignoring the larger goings on. I'm going to spoiler it to help condense the vertical space, 'cause it's long. So we start out here with Shallan coming to the realization that Adolin wants to teach her how to use a Blade. After this revelation, Shallan begins to panic. Like, full-blown panic attack, tunnel vision, hyperventilation, cold sweat, the full mile. She isn't ready to face the use of her Patternblade--the tool that killed her mother. Doing so causes her emotional anguish, and she's just thinking about summoning it. She doesn't want to summon the Patternblade, she wants to bury the memory deep and forget about it again, but her Truth won't let her. And even worse, she's terrified of breaking down in front of Adolin, so rather than face this situation. Now Shallan has proven quite capable of mentally sidestepping what she doesn't want to think about. And there may be something to do with her bond to Pattern in this, I won't discount that. But the text says first that she wants to "Be away", then she follows that up with "No, no you can be someone else instead, Shallan." Her first thought is to jump into the Veil persona, but that's a terrible idea. Not only would that clue Adolin that something's up, but it would make masquerading as Veil more difficult. So she does the next best thing. She begins sketching out a version of herself without the trauma. A version of herself a little more like Jasnah. (I know I'm being very tedious with summarizing what's going on, but I am getting to my point. You have your ways to help people arrive at conclusions, I have mine.) So Shallan draws out this alternative version of herself, and when she breathes out the Stormlight and becomes Radiant, she is able to mentally sidestep her trauma. She can set it aside, because the role she has adopted doesn't have that trauma. She's escaped. She's good. Now she has to figure out how this role would act, so she adopts a weird, more formal speech pattern ("shan't"?) and summons Pattern. This is very akin to what Tyn taught her to do in WoR--in order to make a believable lie, you have to "become" the lie. It's not just about the accent, it's about the posture, the attitude, the persona. After Adolin re-enters the room, Shallan's under the guise of Radiant, but the very first thing that is said is this: Later on, she says "Shallan drew you" as Radiant, but this is part of the mental sidestepping. She's both trying to figure out this persona while at the same time attempting to distance herself from the trauma--Radiant doesn't have Shallan's trauma. So my point through all of this, is that Radiant, unlike Veil, is a persona created for the purpose of dealing with her Patternblade. Shallan can't do that, but with a bit of mental jiggery-pokery, she can as Radiant. Over the next bit of the chapter, we see that Shallan freely switches in and out of Radiant without any problems or drawbacks, and even Pattern comments later on: Later on after that: Here she's under the guise of Veil and she still thinks of herself as Shallan. So we have two points here: 1. Radiant was created to deal with the Patternblade. 2. Shallan still thinks as herself while under the persona of Veil or Radiant. My third point of this is what you brought up: Shallan referring to the personas in the third person. To address this, I'm going to point to acting. When a person is learning how to play a character, one thing they often do is refer to that character as though they were a real person. They try to get inside that character's head, think of how they would act in different situations, all to thereby create a more authentic and believable performance. I believe this is what Shallan's doing. Under this line of thought, comments like this, while in persona, make more sense: Shallan does this with both Radiant and Veil. There is no evidence apart from feeling chased by the stormlight to support that these are proto-personas at work. And it's quite plausible, though your argument is good on this chasing point, that in the heat of the moment she feels like that stormlight is propelling her forward through her chase. And just to show I'm not ignoring this comment, the reasoning is internal--it's part of that shoving away of her traumatic thoughts. For Shallan, that's reason enough. I have to go now. Feel free to reply to what I've said and if further explanation is necessary, I'll give it.

Um...there's a WoB specifically stating Vivenna's in Oathbringer.

Oh, you just made me very happy. Thanks!

THANK YOU FOR THE FAIR TREATMENT!!! I tend to be along the lines of your post, Nebty. Would you mind linking that WoB? @Nebty, @HarbourThank you for putting my thoughts on browser. Have some cookies.

Same... I've read them five or six times each on audio and I'll probably do so again before I tackle Oathbringer. 17th Shard is the only place that gets as into this stuff as me...

I do tend to get heated in confrontational situations (such as debate). That's on me, so I'm sorry for coming across as abrasive. It's a flaw of mine. I didn't mean to come across that way. I really enjoy this debate as well, and it's fun to have someone that can counter my arguments well with examples from the text and not just supposition and inference. So if I get heated, just let me know. Just so you know, most of this paragraph flies over my head. I'm not familiar with debate structures or methods. I was never in debate (probably because I have a hard time keeping a cool head, lol), so when I say it's your best argument, it's because I take each point individually and address it. I don't have the book near me at the moment (I'm not home) but I will look it up tonight and give you a better, more concrete argument, but until then let me address what I can without text. You're right. That's a misread on my part, so I will have to change my argument to match. Here's the text that tells me it's conscious: She consciously pulls her hair back. That's sign number 1 she's getting ready to switch over to Radiant. Sign number 2, she actively summons her Patternblade. Contextually to then say that her use of stormlight in this situation is involuntary doesn't make sense, as she is "gearing up" per se for battle. I read this as she is letting the Light escape, actively forming the image for Radiant in her head. So you were right. This was not an attempt at distraction, since she is chasing, not being chased. And after rereading this segment carefully, I came to the conclusion that we might both be reading this incorrectly. So the sequence of events was: 1. She became Radiant. 2. She entered a small round chamber. 3. She split a dozen illusions from herself and had them run through the room. Presumably, since this is a circular chamber, they ran through the middle and then around the circumference, or vice versa. 4. As they passed her they disappeared. Combine these facts together and I think we can deduce, logically, that she was using them for light, to possibly reveal where in the room it was hiding, because the very next line was: So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Radiant and Veil are fully formed personas, not personalities. There is a very big difference between the two. A persona is an act--it is a fully realized identity that a person assumes for a given role. From Merriam-Webster: 1:a character assumed by an author in a written work 2a: plural personas an individual's social facade or front that especially in the analytic psychology of C. G. Jung reflects the role in life the individual is playing 2b :the personality that a person (such as an actor or politician) projects in public 3plural personae :a character in a fictional presentation (such as a novel or play) —usually used in plural Shallan isn't having trouble separating the two. She knows full well when Veil or Radiant are called for. The problem is that she is using them to run from her problems. And because they are personas, acts, they by definition cannot gain control, because they are still Shallan. I read on your profile that you were an actor? If so, you should understand what the implications of what I am saying without me having to go into detail, but if you need me to, I will take the time later to type out what's going on--to my view, and it's not DID. When an idea or procedure becomes so engrained in the minds of a populace, its use frequently becomes a metaphor for other things. Yes, recasting obviously comes from soulcasting, and yes, it has its roots with people who knew how to soulcast. However, the concept of soulcasting is so perpetual throughout the Vorin people (there are Soulcasters, soulcasters, soulcasting, etc.), means that the act of changing can be easily metaphorized with "re-casting", especially considering that the Alethi soulcast their dead (which was an interesting point in your first theory about the Shamans). I've always read this segment from Pai as religious fervor, in much the same way that people in Born-Again cultures use the same term. They haven't been "born" a second time, but the phrased is used as a metaphor for a monumental change in their lives. Pai isn't lamenting that the people aren't soul-casting their lives into better ones, since that is the exclusive purview of the Church, she's lamenting the wickedness and baseness of the Alethi and the fact that the Ardents, rather than encouraging the Alethi to be better (Do they transform, recasting their souls into something greater, something better?) are accepting bribes and allowing the Alethi (especially the Queen) to live as they please with minimal punishment from the Ardentia. Does that make a little more sense? Finally, it's my turn to be confused. Are we talking about Soulcasting or Lightweaving? The original argument was that the drawings were a prerequisite to Soulcasting, and in your paragraph here you reiterated and proved my point, then went on to contradict your own statement. Can you clarify so I have a better understanding of what you're getting at? 'Cause I'm not opposed to the idea that the two can be mixed. I believe I've said that already. So until I can lay my hands on WoR, I think that's all I can address at this moment.

Okay. I will concede on that point. Let me point out, again, that I'm not saying the powers are 100% separated, though your last line here I would like to point out my thoughts. "Kaladin's desire/ability to protect, Shallan's desire/ability to transform" I don't think it's Shallan's desire/ability to transform that makes her a Lightweaver. Or at least, that's not the way I would phrase it. I think it's the desire and ability to better those around her. That's a little different to me, but you might see it as just semantics. In which case, that's fine. I appreciate your patience and willingness to debate. Ultimately, I think the Lightweavers were paragons of spiritual sustenance because out of all the orders, a fully realized Lightweaver was the most grounded in who they were. War is trying times, and many men's hearts falter. Lightweavers could help others from getting lost in the conflict. I think, if Shallan can come to grips with her own trauma and acknowledge it, she could do the same for the many struggling characters in the series. Finally, have a cookie. Great arguments.

Yes, several. But your arguments are well-thought out so I'll bite. You're misinterpreting my statement. When a person burns gold, that person thinks as both individuals simultaneously. We saw this with Vin and Miles. When Shallan "split," she had already adopted the Radiant persona, which she "became more fully" using Stormlight, meaning she adopted the Radiant appearance as well as the mental persona. If Shallan had truly split in the matter of Allomantic Gold, a you're implying, each and everyone of those images would have had a viewpoint in the text, as well as Radiant and Shallan, but that's not the case. It's Radiant only, because Radiant is still Shallan, and all the others are illusions. Um. Creating a distraction is exactly what she is doing. It's actively conscious. She's in a situation where she is being chased and so she is using her powers to create multiple, temporary images of herself to misdirect the enemy long enough for her not to be caught by surprise and meet the enemy head-on. It's called tactics, and it's really smart on Shallan's part. Again. Shallan is an artist. She doesn't simply draw people, she invests in them, imagines who they are, how they feel. Most importantly, these are all things Shallan imagines about herself, so she doesn't just draw them, she invests a little piece of her soul (non-cosmerically) into them. I do the same thing when I work on my art. It's just something you do as an artist. If I were doing what Shallan was doing, I would probably describe them the same way. Except it's not. The ship? Also, Jasnah doesn't draw to Soulcast. If he wasn't interested, why did he steal the drawing? Again...by this point he already has stolen the drawing, so he's not suddenly incredibly interested in it by her holding the Stormlight. He takes her orders because he believes that what Tvlakv is ordering is wrong and she's appealing to his sense of honor. Honestly, this is your best argument. And I'm not denying that Soulcasting and Lightweaving could be used together in ways we don't realize. But I am arguing that this is simply not the case here. You quoted Pai--also remember here that "re-casting" and "soulcasting" are likely common Vorin expressions, and the use of "re-casting" does not necessarily imply surgebinding. It's a metaphor for changing yourself to the Almighty's desires, and Pai is very, very religious. More so than most ardents. As I said in the other thread, I refuse to ascribe magic as the source of all a character is able to accomplish. To say that the changes Shallan effects here is due purely to magic is do undermine the arc of her character here--she is trying to change and become a more confident person, and more self-sure person, using Jasnah's words and example. Jasnah said in WoR that it was not power or station that made others respect her, it was how she carried herself and how she presented herself. That was the lesson Shallan was exercising here, and the stormlight and Lightweaving was augmentation to that effort. Finally, here's the link to the thread: But seriously. Have a cookie. You're making me work for this.

This is mincing words. It’s more than inferrable at the least from the text spread between WoR and OB. And if you’re going there than you have to give short shrift to Adolin as well, since neither if them in that pair has said “love” to my knowledge. Intent to marry and even the act of courting are not definitive acts of love—especially in a series that has made repeated use of arranged marriages.

I...don't know that I necessarily agree. What are you defining as "romantic aspect?" Because other than the whole "Shallan is physically attracted to Adolin" head-dialogue, I haven't seen much and a lot of their interactions look like the "friend-like but not specifically romantic" sort to me, and I certainly haven't seen anything significant since their kiss in WoR. Don't get me wrong--I'm not saying Kal and Shallan are romantic. I think you're on the right track with your analysis here so far, in that Shallan's feelings for Kal--if any--are buried deep and she's focused on Adolin. Though I think Kal's feelings are stronger than he's admitting to Syl in the text in question. Her profession of wanting to kiss Adolin during the chasm scene in WoR was a bit of a set-down to him, if I recall, but Kal also likes Adolin so he's willing to step aside to let their romance bloom, which I think is the honorable thing to do in his situation. I don't know that I'd say Kaladin "loves" her yet, but he's certainly attracted to her on an emotional and physical level, more than you let on in your text. If I recall, Syl's comments leading up to the part you quoted had to do with Kal being in a relationship, and then she turns around and suggests Shallan. And Shallan has demonstrated some of that return in text, to my view, though I've heard the counter argument often enough that I'm not going to press that point....and @SLNC just ninja'd me. I'm really confused by this segment. How would this impact Adolin and Shallan's relationship, as you're implying it does for Kaladin and Shallan's?

Evi is still described as sweet and quite the opposite of cunning. We know that Dalinar suppressed his feelings toward Navani the whole time but playing the loving, matching couple for years is something I don't think Dalinar could have pulled off. Also, his outward behaviour must have changed significantly to be called "matched in temperament" with Evi. I don't see any match in the flashback chapters. In those, I get the feeling that they don't match at all. On the other hand, Dalinar could have bundled his true feelings and his true temperament into a tight knot, playing the outside for years. Then that knot burst, with consequences to speculate about. Evi's resulting death would not be too farfetched in this case. Thank you! I've been trying to figure out how to say exactly what you did. Have a cookie!

Nice. You have concisely made the point I've been trying to make for weeks. Have a cookie.

I think it's important to point out here that Shallan's Lightweaving in the situation in question is quite different from Electrum and Gold's effects. Electrum spreads out phantom images of what you might do through a brief glimpse into the future. Gold uses Connection and Identity to view what might have been. The source for these comes externally from the mistborn or misting using them--they are not a fabrication of the mistborn or misting's imagination, but an actual difference that they might have been, a Realmatic effect, as Yata put it. It's also important to note that while burning gold, the mistborn or misting's cognition is split--they are both people simultaneously. When Shallan used her Lightweaving to split apart, it was a more advanced form of what she had done in the chasm to save Kaladin from the chasmfiend. Note the text in question (I've bolded for emphasis): This is a pretty clear indication that while Shallan's results might be similar to the results of Electrum or Gold, the actual magical process itself is wholly different. These other versions of Shallan are from her imagination. They are different versions of Shallan as to who she imagined she could be/have been, and her cognition and awareness does not travel with the phantom Shallans--because they are just illusions. I've talked about this at length in another thread, but I don't think what's going on here with Bluth and Gaz and the other men is purely magic. Shallan is an artist. Her drawings were popular even far before she started utilizing them for Lightweaving. What Shallan did with Bluth was she told him a lie that was also a truth--Bluth wasn't the enamored with the idea of being a spearman, he was enamored with the idea of being a good and honorable man and a hero, rather than a tough who beat helpless slaves. What she did was inspire Bluth with her drawing of him--she showed him a man he could be, a man he wanted to be. And in the end, he was, but that was not because Shallan worked some mystical mind-changing magic on him--it's because she inspired him and then presented him with the opportunity to be that man. If you recall, when she and Bluth encounter the deserters and she convinces them to fight to save the caravan, Bluth whoops for joy because he can finally be the good man he has always wanted to be. And also, remember that all surgebinding-related magic requires stormlight for effect. Each magic system has a triggering mechanism. There was no stormlight usage when Shallan sketched Bluth. As for the rest of your theory, I think you have some interesting ideas. There are some holes in it that have been pointed out, but there's also some solid speculation that, if you combine with the story in "The Girl Who Looked Up", the mentions of the Shin invasions, etc. might point to the Shin having a relation to Odium, but that is purely speculation on my part.

Neat quote! I haven't heard that one before. Have a cookie! I've thought for a while that the two were related in some way. The powers were too similar in that they effected a cognitive change on how an object perceives itself. I have no problems with this idea. What I oppose is that Shallan's Lightweaving is affecting permanent changes on the people around her, and that's why people are "changing". Which I just don't believe is what's happening. I believe that the powers are augmenting an aspect of Shallan, but they are not the cause of the changes in those around her--Shallan herself is. Certainly that augmentation could be through the result of a combination of Lightweaving and subconscious Soulcasting, though every example of Soulcasting we've had so far has been quite specific in its requirements and actualization, so I don't know if it's something that can be done subconsciously at this point in time. I think we'll just have to wait and see--hopefully the coming Jasnah sequences will give us more insight into what Soulcasting is capable of, utilization-wise.

I agree—this is a very important event that we can’t overlook. I also don’t think it’s significant enough, compared with the myriad of deeper tragedies in Shallan’s life to be a deal-breaker. I’m not saying it will be easy for her to work through—at this point in time I don’t even know if she will try to—but I think there’s enough comraderie between them at least (though I think there’s more than that) to allow the relationship to pull through if she works through it. It is important to note that, while Shallan may idolize Helaran to an extent in the same way younger siblings often do, she was more distant to Helaran than her other brothers, and seeing as she fully knows what Kaladin was forced to go through at the same time, I think that will carry some weight...if she ever allows herself to sit and think on it. I know.... T_T

I concur! Have a cookie.

@Calderis Thanks. @hoidhunter I think I just misread your comment. I read it as “one of the creations of the unmade (which was) known as the midnight mother” As in Re-shephir was the creation. It makes more sense now, haha.