Telcontar

Hej guys. I've been away from this site for a very long time, now hopefully coming back in force when I'll have read WoR. I'll go to the signing tonight. I have no experience at all, though I'll try to get the most information possible out of it. Don't have an audio recorder, just a camera though. Don't know if filming is ok, probably not

She doesn't bother now. Who says that she always felt that way?

Aside from all your discussion that I read only furtively. I for one, agree with the OP in that some ardents do have access to the surgebinding form of Soulcasting. to them those super-soulcasters are only sources of stormlight, like for Jasnah. (btw, we'll probably learn about it, when we get Jasnah's book) Jasnah probably is in the fifth order, whose primary attribute is "learned". She is one of the most renowned scholars and it thusly makes sense that she attracted one of the spren that are attracted to learned persons. Ardents on the other hand are the only men that are allowed to do research and they do so. It would only make sense that those, like Jasnah would be able to attract a spren, when being learned enough. Jasnah, being the heretic she is, probably did some research about vorinism, and discovered their secrets, including the soulcasting thing.

Did anyone else wonder why there seem only to be ten kinds of gemstone on Roshar? I mean, on our world there are so much more than that. Maybe Rosharian animals are the only source for gemstones. We know there is mining on Roshar from one of Szeth's POV in the Interludes. But those could very well be only for metal and coal and such things. I always wondered how gemstones could have such extraordinary abilities. If all of those are indeed gemhearts, that would make it easier. As, after all, gemhearts in animals supposedly have some real function.

Well, if SeekinRage refers to the Herald's Blades (which are often reffered to as Honorblades) than they're not the same. In the Prelude those Herald's Blades are described like this:

Thanks, that was probably the quote I referred to. Isn't inferring what we do most of the time here? ;-) What we know about Splinters, is that BS refuses to give us the precise definition. It is my believe of course, that there is a difference between Splinters and the pieces of a Shard that are left, when the Shard is splintered. Splinters seem to have a purpose on their own. And I beleive that that purpose is a result of the Shard (Shardholder) creating the Splinter. Thus being a voluntary act. I believe those spren that had been around in Dalinar's vision to be actual Splinters btw. And the other spren, that cannot provide a connection to Honor (making someone a Surgebinder) to be splinters.

We have confirmation from BS that Honor "was still around" when the KR left (I believe). Also Honor seemed to record the visions before he was Splintered, so if he could record the Recreance, he would have indeed been around, yes. I invite you to use Splinter (with the capital) only to design real Splinters (like the Divine Breath). Spren would be the results of the splintering, thus be splinters. I believe that the definition of a Splinter would include a voluntary creation of the entity by a Shard. Splinters (splinters) would be the result of the splintering, which would not have been a voluntary act of that same Shard. Well, I believe that there are indeed spren that are Splinters (voluntary ones). Those include honorspren like Syl. As those would have been created by Honor for that purpose, one could say, that in that way yes, KRs bonded with Honor. As to Stormlight being spiritual energy, that has not been confirmed, but it's more or less a general consensus in these forums. As to that, I'm actually working on a revision of the OP, which includes some large chanes to the AonDor part. But no, we don't know how the people taken by the Shaod are chose, there is a strong theory, that the Shaod chooses people that are especially devoted to something, as AonDor implies a connection with Aona who was Devotion's Shardholder. You're right of course. We can only assume what happens with the spiritual energy of a Shard when splintered. The source of highstorms as the place of Honor's Shardpool might be a good guess.

Yesterday I went to bed and I had no Wheel-of-Time-book to read. Well, I still had New Spring" but I didn't count that as essential to the Reread. I had already started it because AMoL was sold out in Germany on Wednesday, and I had to wait for amazon to deliver it. So I'm halfway through, but in my mind, the Reread was finished yesterday afternoon, with the last words of AMoL. I loved this Reread. I started at the beginning of July, intending to read about two books per month, and it worked out pretty well. During half a year I travelled along Rand, Mat and Perrin, often hoping things would turn out differently even though I knew what was going to happen. I'm not one of those long-time fans, I only took up EotW in 2008. But still I grew quickly to love the books (probably including even CoT) and since 2008 I've read them three times (except for AMoL of course). But this Reread was special, because I eventually got to know how everything ended. I was sad that it was over, I was impressed by the last book, which turned out really well, I was glad that BS took his time and spent five years to give us that ending and I was thankful to Robert Jordan who gave us these wonderful books in the first place. I'm already wondering when to do the next Reread. Because it will be quite a different experience, with the actual end in mind.

Then why, if both feed an equal amount of Stormlight to it, Dalinar gets the upper-hand? If Shardplate were bound to Stormlight, as you say, that would not happen. Stormlight is a requirement for the invested object to function. That has nothing to do with the (Honor-caused) bonds we're talking about. Shardwielding? I still say that Shardplate forms some sort of bond with its Bearer. Might be me, but I think it says at some point, that Shardplate adapts to the size of its Bearer. How else could you pass a set of Shardplate from a very big guy to a small guy?

I disagree about that. I'll even say: No, it doesn't. Stormlight is spiritual energy, the power of a Shard. Shardplate is powered by it, being an Invested object. Every invested object needs spiritual energy in order to function. Shardplate needs Stormlight but it is not bonded to it. The bonds we are talking about are "Honor"-bonds. They play a particular role on Roshar as Honor's intent seems to be to bind things.

Not finished yet, about halfway through ToM. Did anyone else ever have the feeling in all those books that you hoped for the characters to act differently although knowing exactly what they were going to do? One example is all that information they don't share with each other...

The Emperor's Soul - SPOILERS - @Arcturus. It's been a while, I've been busy somehow, so I'll only answer now, sorry for that. The thing with the defining of spren very probably has something to do with the cognitive realm. In TES it is explained that way: Of course, Shai only refers to objects that can be Forged. But it applies to everything in the Cosmere. Spren being the soul of objects (spiritual realm) without a (notable) physical aspect, it seems likely that they are easily influenced by someone who notes specific abilities. Let's compare with Forgery. To use Forgery, you create a stamp, that needs to fit very special requirements in order to work. By Shai's description, Forgery works because you change the way an object views itself. If it's something that is likely to exist, it changes the appearance (the physical realm). Forgery works better, the nearer you stick to an object's soul. Only the cognitive part is influenced. Spren lack a strong representation in the physical realm. To change its appearance would be that much easier to perform. So it requires not the intricate carvings but it is sufficient if you only measure it and write it down. It's all about interaction between the three realms. The Protector, being a spren, has probably been defined in lots of ways. There must be a lot of books that describe its behaviour, how it appears every day at the same spot at the same time.

The removal and summoning of parts of Shardplate seems similar to the summoning of Shardblades to me. In my belief they're also stored in the spiritual realm. It probably works in some way like when someone wills a Shardblade to stay, instead of disappearing, when dropped. Since the KR abandoned the Plate, nobody thought of willing the Plate away in the right way. So they had to take it off. That just makes sense. Because you have to prepare to wear Plate, you need help. KR probably didn't have time for that process, so they summoned it. And I agree with you, that the use the Windrunners made of their Plate would draw Stormlight much too quickly for it to be powered by gems. Another similarity of Plate and Blade. Both 'bond' with their Bearer. For Shardblades we have a quote from the Forum's Q&A. And for Plate we know that one can regrow a set of Plate. If the Parshendi would have tried to grow a set out of Dalinar's gauntlet, it wouldn't have worked, because the Plate was bonded to Dalinar. I don't recall whether there is a quote that explicitly says that Plate is bonded to its Bearer. Also I'll need to edit the OP to include Forgery.

Done with TGS. Started with ToM. One weekend left to get ToM done. And Tuesday it's time for AMoL. Wow

Well I'm glad someone at least is giving my idea some thought. I'm just convinced that Brandon Sanderson wouldn't create a magic system, that is powered by a Shard that would work in the the exact same way, when the Shard is Splintered. Might be some people take this for granted though. I think it might helpt your idea, Josiah Bills, when I tell you that Shardblades actually bond with their Bearer. There is word of Brandon for it, I can find it, when I have more time. I assume, as you do, that before Honor's Splintering, Shardplate was powered directly by Honor, everything else would probably consume the Stormlight too fast. About Plate and Blade requiring a spren to use. I'd rather say that those were somehow included in the bond of spren with Knight Radiant, installing a connection between Plate and Honor to power the Plate directly. Random ideas I'd have to bring together to form a real one...

This is a theory that has slowly build up in my head until I read Pagerunners post where he states an idea which gave me my final piece to complete a new idea which I very much hope you’ll like. In this post I am going to discuss the effects of the Splintering of a Shard on the magic system that is powered by the Splintered Shard. To be precise, I’ll only discuss end-positive magic systems aka manifestations of Investiture. In just a few words, I am going to theorize that a magic system is affected by the Splintering of its Shard. We know that Honor, as well as Aona and Skai are Splintered. Both Surgebinding and AonDor are very probably end-positive manifestations of Investiture. I’ll describe how I think that the magic system worked differently when the Shard was intact. An end-positive manifestation of Investiture permits the user of it to draw on an external source of power (AoL Ars Arcanum). The best example we have for it is Allomancy. When Vin burned her metals, she drew on Preservation so she could enhance her abilities. There was no visible source for it, she was granted some part of Preservation. But would that work in the same way, if Preservation was Splintered? Let me explain how I see what happens to the Shard when it is Splintered. I imagine a Shard as a huge body of energy in the spiritual realm, directed by the mind added by the Shardholder. When Splintered, the Shardholder is killed, taking away the cognitive aspect. Along this, the huge body of energy is dispersed into smaller parts – shards or splinters. What was one ocean of energy before, is now an infinite amount of tiny puddles all over the spiritual realm. My theory is based on the idea that one would not be able to draw directly on a Splintered Shard. One would need a way to use the tiny puddles. Those tiny puddles however, keep the original intent of the Shard. I say that those are not Splinters in the definition given by BS. The puddles are floating around in the spiritual realm, attracted to anything in relation to the original intent of the Shard. BS has said about the theory that Seons are Splinters that the line of theorizing is very close to being correct. I propose that they are a result of a Splintered Shard, ie they're not Splinters but splinters. To see whether my theory has any value, let’s analyze what we know about AonDor and Surgebinding. AonDor To use AonDor, an Elantrian (made so by the Shaod) needs to draw a symbol, called an Aon in the air. What is strange, is that without the amplification of the city of Elantris, Aons produce such a small effect, that it doesn't really help in anything. I propose that this is because Devotion has been Splintered. Before, the Shards were still complete and Aons worked much better, actually producing a real effect without the help of Elantris. When Odium killed Aona and Skai, people figured out a way to make Aons work like before. And that way was Elantris. If anybody knows something about the chronology relating to the Splintering of Devotion and Dominion and the construction, please help me out. Back to my image of an ocean of energy for an intact Shard and tiny puddles for a Splintered one. The intact Shard has a mind, the puddles lack a significant cognitive aspect. Instead of floating around the spiritual realm as one being, the tiny puddles of energy float around but aimlessly. Following their intent, they are attracted to whatever Shard they originally come from. So, how do Elantrians use the tiny puddles? I propose that the Shaod is actually that. Remnants of the Shard Devotion seeking devoted people to strike them. Which makes the person an Elantrian.The glowing of Elantrians is a sign to me that they have a big amount of pure spiritual energy added to themselves. By drawing an Aon, Elantrians release part of the added energy. Remember when Raoden was attacked by the Dor? That was because he continued being devoted to something even after he was transformed into an Elantrian. So he continued to accumulate spiritual energy, which led to the attacks. When finally making his Aon work, there was so much energy inside him, the Aon produced an effect it would have produced with an intact Shard. Part of my theory is that before Devotion was Splintered by Odium, Elantrians looked like normal people, only with the ability to draw powerful Aons and make them work, because whenever an Aon was drawn, the Elantrian drew the energy from an external source (Devotion). Surgebinding In contrast to AonDor, we actually have some small information about Surgebinding pre-Splintering. Brandon has confirmed that Honor still lived when the Heralds left, so the KR-scene we see in one of Dalinar's vision features some Surgebinders who were able to Surgebind before Honor was Splintered. We've already discussed on several occasions how the KR seemed to be more powerful and to be able to do things the modern Surgebinders weren't able to do. I theorize that this is at least partly because Honor was Splintered in-between. Surgebinding requires someone to use Stormlight, to capture it in gemstones and keep it until one can use it. To me this doesn't really fit the description of an end-positive manifestation of Investiture. They draw in spiritual energy from an external source. Of course Stormlight is an external source, but I understand the external source more like an unlimited one like an intact Shard. The KR did not seem to have extra-Stormlight with them, but the way they used their abilities, compared with what we've seen from Kaladin, their Stormlight would have been used up pretty fast, with all that jumping around. But instead of being used up, the KR continued to glow themselves, their Plate and Blade glowed as well. I propose that before the Splintering, the KR also needed to bond a spren, but the spren provided the connection to an intact Shard, giving Surgebinders the ability to draw directly on Honor without having to rely on Stormlight stored in gems. Without Honor intact to draw directly on him, Surgebinders need to draw on tiny puddles of spiritual energy of Honor: Stormlight. I'll probably need to revise this, but I'll post it anyway cause it's so much fun to discuss baseless speculation like this.

Flash, I'd really appreciate a transcription. I didn't understand everything that was read due to my not-sufficient ability to understand the english language when recorded in that qualitiy. Thank you very much in advance.

Hey Haradion, suppose someone needs to give you a reaction ;-) I'm not sure that first line will work. Your prologue takes place in that desert, that's where the sun rises. No need to include any reference to the planet or the cosmos. that's more like a first line for a sci-fi-novel IMO. Stick with the setting, the desert. I've read it two days ago, but when I did, I had some problem with the structure of your sentences. You often seem to start with the subject (which is of course the correct way in english grammar) but it seemed repeating to me. To much sentences beginning with "The ..." "Then something unexpected happened" is a line I personally dislike to anything unexpected happening. Maybe try something like: "But instead of the brizzling sound of deadly energy released, he heard a great howl of pain echoing over the waste." And finally, after having described the battle pretty well, the resolution of what actually happened to the witches was disappointing. Not because it's something happening all the time in fantasy (linked beings that loose powers when the big evil monster is killed => Sauron and his armies, trollocs and myrddraal, Star Wars I - the phantom menace, just to give some popular examples). That's not the problem. We're living in a post modern era, there is just no way to come up with something really new. But disappointing because of the way you present it. "Kirrin later learned what had happened" It doesn't fit in with the rest of the prologue. Maybe stick with the rumors. Though Kirrin talked to many people in the aftermath of that battle, he never managed to figure out what really happened in that moment, when he had accepted his death. Of course there were rumors, every other soldier actually claiming he had been there when it happened. ... But all agreed on that the evil guy had been killed by the good guy. Remember, it's legends you're describing, and noone knows what really happened in legends. Hope this helps you a little. It's only my personal and humble opinion, of course. Though if you want some comments on your novel maybe give us a part with the actual characters in it ;-) Oh. And if you miss praise, consider that the things I didn't criticize have not been criticized. For now *evil laugh*.

*performing dark rituals, summoning obscure forces from the depths of the realm of death and destruction and tearing this thread from its grave, back into some drab-like form of existence. Adding some spiritual energy to give it some sentience and lean back* Dear admins, I know you don't like thread-necromancy, but what I'm willing to share (with Odium_s Shard and Satsuoni at least, cause noone else seemed to be interested in this thread before) refers to this exact thread and discussion. So it would make no sense at all to start a new one. Feel free to spike me for it, it will only increase my necromany-Investiture. Yeah. So I was editing the wiki-article about Investiture. Brandon had told us about Innate Investiture in the Forum Q&A, so after being quite impressed with that new information I went to the wiki to check out the information about Investiture and it turned out there was like... not much. So long story short, I edited it, which made me think about Investiture and I realized that - after all - I agree with the OP in that Investiture describes a state. You may recall my former argument that Investiture was about transfer of spiritual energy. Well, I don't think that's it anymore. Investiture describes the situation that a person or an object possesses spiritual energy That would be my new attempt at a definition of Investiture. I'm not sure whether to add: "..., which gives him/her/it a connection to a Shard" Talking about Innate Investiture made me realize that even the smallest amount of spiritual energy a person has, is called Investiture. Appearently sentience needs spiritual energy, so every human would have Innate Investiture. That has been confirmed for people on Scadrial and Nalthis. As to Roshar, people also speak of the Creator of humankind. Also humans don't seem to be native to Roshar. If they do indeed come from a place like the 'Tranquiline Halls' it seems not too crazy a theory to say that there is some spiritual energy involved as well. As to Sel, it may be tougher. Don't know if Selians are natives? If not, there may be some implication of the strong connection between planet and magic. Invested objects are quite simple, you put spiritual energy into objects, you get an Invested object. By Awakening, by filling/tapping it. In actual magic it's harder to say. For example Allomancy. You have the manifestation of Investiture called Allomancy. This is what makes you able to burn metals. When you actually burn a metal, you start another Investiture which lasts until you stop it or the metal is gone. What happens though, is that the user himself is Invested on top of his normal Investiture. In other words (according to the given definition) he gets more spiritual energy which makes him able to push coins, soothe people, slow time. The outlet of the additional power is written in his spiritweb (AoL Ars Arcanum). That's also why Allomancy is end-positive. Cause the practicioner of Allomancy gets additional spiritual energy from the Shard in order to perform his magic. So there is two manifestations of Investiture when someone stellpushes something. The basic magictype Allomancy and one's state when burning a metal, which is probably a type of Allomancy.

Thank you Joe, this will help me pretty much. I'll edit the references when I'll have some time, now I'll have to continue with the Great ReRead, I'm a bit late on my planning... Glad you liked my contribution! I'll do more eventually, hope I'll have the time. The nice thing is: doing the article about Investiture made me think about the actual definition of it... Again. And I realized I will have to go back to that Investiture-definition-thread to tell Odiums_Shard that he was probably right. Just random thoughts to say that I enjoy my time here.

I think there has not to be yet another new thread related to editing questions? anyway, the day before yesterday I tried my first edit (Investiture btw) and I realized it's not just writing about something but also doing some crazy EDITING stuff. Like references and such oddities. I don't know anything about it though, and the help pages were but a small help. I believe you're working on making those clearer already, so here a suggestion: I finally found the meaning of the '?' referring to the wotdb or the 'b' referring to a book. Could you put somewhere how to do a correct reference to one specific question of the wotdb? or to similar matters? Like how you put in the link to that specific chapter in the wiki? I totally screwed up with that ;-) Also, I realized that some topics necessarily include some speculation to be at least to some small help to users. Still, I tried to leave out speculation. Any ideas to deal with that problem?

No, that's not what I intended to say ;-) I considered the possibility that AoL-Aes Sedai would have discovered how to heal the taint-madness. I did suppose that one needs great skill similar to Nynaeve's to be able to do it. Nynaeve is obviously better at Healing now than any AoL-Aes Sedai was, but she is also one very powerful Aes Sedai with a strong Talent for Healing. I suppose that even in the AoL there was but a few Aes Sedai who could have done what Nynaeve has done.

I agree with the devil. the madness of male channelers was no mental illness but the taint left on the mind by channeling saidin. There was something there that didn't belong in the minds and Nynaeve could remove it. The DO would've been pretty pi**ed if that had been discovered in the AoL. Though I suppose there wouldn't have been enough Aes Sedai with enough skill to remove the taint constantly on all male channelers.

Hey Brandon, first, let me thank you for giving us this occasion. Unless you're planning to come to Germany in the next few years it'll be hard to ask my questions. If you're going to answer all of these questions it probably will take much time (even knowing that lots of them will get RAFOd) so if you don't it will only permit you to continue with the Stormlight Archive 2, which will be very good as well. - is one of the symbolhead-spren (or maybe all of them) responsible for Shallan's ability to Soulcast (in the way that Syl is responsible for Kaladin's Lashings)? - When Surgebinding, the person is Binding a Surge (the elemental force). Are those Bindings (the spiritual link) the focus for Surgebinding on Roshar?