Telcontar

Your theory includes some good ideas, at least I fully agree that Nohadon did something important. On how and what exactly, I'm with Jacob Santos, I don't believe it's possible to change a magic system. but well, this doens't help. When I reread the book I realized that someone spoke to our precious bridgeleader. which is not that big a realization. But the one spoke in capitals. Like Death from the Discworld novels. Syl had already pleaded to Kaladin to speak the words, but not in capitals and she had never spoken in capitals before. The only other time someone speaks in capitals afaik is when Kaladin is riding the storm in his dream. I'm sure capitals mean something, BS did this in purpose. When Honor spoke to Dalinar, he spoke normally. If the one speaking was indeed Jezrien, the Stormfather (which is not more plausible than other ideas) then we also have to figure out how Jezrien (or anyone except a Shard)could speak to Kaladin in that moment. Did you think about this, Elwynn? Would be glad to read your thoughts about it.

My impression had also been that Jasnah is in order nr.5 But you already figured out the best reasons why. I would say that the numbering of the ability-sheet is greater consensus now. (We start with Jezrien on top right, then count clockwise) And that adjacent orders share one surge they are able to manipulate. Which leaves nr.5 or nr.7 for Jasnah (because Shallan is nr.6 which also is greater consensus ) I believe in the Herald Heads, they are not just confusion. They are just too much like the chapter icons in the WoT which is one of Brandon's biggest influences as a writer. In WoT the icons often gave hints to who would be in the chapters, especially when there were disguised Forsaken somewhere messing around. I think it's pretty clear that a chapter entitled "Heretic" where Jasnah appears for the first time, and where she is the important character (Soulcasting that boulder and testing Shallan) has two times Heraldhead nr.5 in the archway. As to her difficulties with Soulcasting food. My impression of the Soulcasting abilities always was that they have nothing to do with people and abilities but with the gemstone. You need emeralds to Soulcast food, you use smokestone to turn people to smoke etc. Her problems do not come from being in an order. I'm far more enclined to that theory that they come from her lack of understanding in biology. If Soulcasting abilites were tied to the order of the Caster, it would be pretty sad, because there is only two orders who had inherent Soulcasting abilites. So there would be only two essences which could be produces easily. No, the Soulcasting abilites from the Ars Arcanum only refer to the gemstones.

Concerning the prevalent discussion in this thread about Regrowth being a sort of Soulcasting or something different. I think we can assume that Shallan's order is nr.6: Shalash. If you want evidence, feel free to ask for it. Shallan can obviously Soulcast, something she shares with Jasnah. Now. We know from that BS quote, that every order manipulates two surges (or Surges?). In Shallan's case that would be surges #6 and #7 (if we start with gravity and pressure/ahesion being #1 and #2 and then continue counting clockwise). Assuming that Transformation (=Soulcasting) is a surge on it's own (maybe referring to elements changing state from solid to liquid to gasiform. or elements clinging together forming different molecules and thus changing state which could be described as transformation. Anyway that's the best way I can think of, of Transformation being an elemental force. So if Transformation is a surge, it's going to be #6 or #7. Shallan is not in the same order as Jasnah, but Jasnah can Soulcast, so she shares the surge with Shallan. Nothing new, I know. But that means that Jasnah is in order nr.5 or nr.7. My guess is nr.5. As to why, I can explain, but it doesn't really matter in this post. The woman who uses Regrowth is probably a Stonewarden, being in order nr.9: Talenel. (Even though I repeat myself, just ask, if you want to know why ) As long as everyone is correct in making the assumptions made above, Stonewardens could not manipulate Transformation. So, either the female Shardbearer did indeed manipulate a different Surge or she used a fabrial. Dalinar is convinved that there is no fabrials in his visions. But of course that doesn't mean anything. Against Soulcasting. Shallan describes the process of Soulcasting as bribing the cognitive aspect of something to change. She gives the stormlight to the cognitive part. When Soulcasting the goblet, she suddenly feels cold, as if the warmth is being drawn from her. And the sphere gets warm instead. This could be the process of "bribing" the cognitive part. The stormlight actually goes to Shadesmar. Dalinar felt cold himself, which brings to the conclusion that stormlight is used in himself. It stays in the physical realm. And there is no reason IMO why other talents like Regrowth shouldn't need a specific combination of stones.

I support the "honorspren is a generic term" hypothesis. It's as honor is a generic term. If I challenged you to give me one definition of honor, I believe there wouldn't be much of you who could define it without referring to other more specific terms. Honor is both perceived by someone himself and by others. You have an inherent honor which can be insulted, you think about things being honorable. Others may think about you in a completely different way (Dalinar is a very good example of that). So if honor is many things, there is lots of actions which can be taken for honorable, according to the context. This is my interpretation of the Divine Attributes. Every one of those can be interpreted as manifestation of honor. different spren could then become honorspren according to what they do. Syl binds things. That's what she says. We know from Kaladin's thoughts at the beginning, when he is still in his cage as a slave, that windspren are known to bind things. So does Syl even when she has already gained sentience. How strange it is, that windspren grant the powers to become a Windrunner. Shallan's spren do different things. If every honorspren would bind things, shouldn't Shallan be on her way to become a Windrunner? No she is not, because other honorspren do other things. Like transforming goblets, bread or people. Another different thought for you, zas: what of the multitude of Shallanspren? Even after she Soulcasts for the first time, she keeps seeing Shallanspren, more of them. Shouldn't there be only one of them left?

There is a quote from BS where he tells us that the ten fools are sort of the opposites of the Herals.

I like that. Honorspren grant powers to honorable people. however people have to realize what honor is by themselves. when they get it and live it, the spren is attracted. We've seen it with Kaladin and Syl. Speaking the Oaths would then reinforce the bonds, the spren granting more power. But you have to MEAN them. The first Oath (life before death etc.) is spoken by some people in the book. I believe Dalinar spoke them once (or just thought them?) and one of the bridgemen (Teft or Szigil IIRC). Merely speaking isn't enough. You have to act honorable and mean the words. Question: hasn't Dalinar acted honorable enough? I believe buying the bridgemen with his Shardblade would be worth attracting an Honorspren. His preception of honor is not exactly the same as Kaladin's IMO. For the bridgeman it would be that he just doesn't act in a distinctive honorable way. and he is just repeating the first Oath of the KR. He certainly doesn't mean them to be binding. I once expressed my idea that Dawnshards could be the Heralds blades because they seem to be some manifestation of the bond to the Oathpact. Now, if the KR or the other humans present at the Last Desolation picked up those blades... I don't know if Odium would accept anything other than Heralds to torture though. Following questions: Do you automatically get bound by picking up a blade? We still have no clue where those have gone.

How did Dalinar fight off a smoke-beast (Midnight Essence)? I believe this answers your questions. Smoke is contained in some kind of skin. Otherwise Midnight Essence would be much harder to kill. I just assume that it would be the same with wind or fire.

Ten Unmade would at least fit with the ever present "ten-essences-theme". I believe there is very few mentions of the Unmade in the book so far. A point we'll have to pay attention to. the ten fools being a distortion of ten Unmade seems quite human to me I'll have to think about the Unmade

In the coppermind wiki about Honor it says that his intent is to uphold agreements, to bind things. Well, Szeth definitely upholds his oath or whatever binds him. But if that would be what attracts an Honorspren, he would be on his path to become a KR which appearently is not going to happen. And I liked the Szeth-chapters a lot.

@ReaderAt2046 so, is there any thread where I can read about your ideas? that would be interesting. As beings opposed to the Heralds, what came in my mind was the Ten Fools. I haven't given any thoughts to the Unmade yet. Are yours complete enough for you to share them with us?

Did anyone else make the connection with the Ten Deaths? That's one of the Radiants speaking to Dalinar in his first in-book-vision. They were fighting against Midnight Essence. And the quote tells us that Midnight Essence is one of the Ten Deaths. Now, this makes your theory more likely that we'll see nine other "Deaths". And following the general ten-essences-theme, probably they will be made of one those. However I disagree with other points. You assume Midnight Essence and thunderclasts to be present during Desolations. For thunderclasts this is true, we see them in the Prelude. As for Midnight Essence, the Desolation hadn't yet begun when Dalinar fought them. That's what the Radiants tell him. That's why I would say that the Ten Deaths are not necessarily connected to the Voidbringers. Still, this doesn't exclude the possibility of the Voidbringers releasing the "Ten Deaths". In that case thunderclasts could very well be part of them, according to your theory.

My assumption is unlikely at least because Soulcasting is much more likely to be Transformation and thus being a type of Surgebinding (I slowly gather knowledge around other threads, yes ) Then, as you say, if Shardwielding is a distinct type of magic, I would first wonder if it's another magic type like Surgebinding. Or if it's a sub-category to one of these. Surgebinding is linked to Honor. If I understood conclusions in this forum right, then you gain abilities by bonding to an Honorspren. Which is attracted to you because you act honorable (Kaladin by protecting young recruits and bribing the surgeons to care for his men). So, if you stop acting honorable, would the bond uphold? (what is the opposite of honorable, by the way?) Let's say it does. In that case Szeth wouldn't get his abilities by a bond with an Honorspren. Either because he never acted honorable in the first place or because he stopped acting honorable by killing everything simply because his master desires it. But he still has his powers. Which would point to a conclusion that what he does is not Surgebinding but something different. What that might be, is another question. (Related questions would be: how did Szeth get his powers? Did he learn the Lashings by someone? His expertise in that area seems to point that way? so, do Shin still possess knowledge of Surgebinding and whatever that is?)

Actually I agree. But I'm new here, I still haven't figured out exactly how these forums work. And I tried to do a different approach. Not having built a theory and try to prove those by explaining, quoting etc but to take one specific part and see what I can get out of it. I'm thinking about doing so with Dalinar's viewings, but that wouldn't be in the near future One advantage of that approach could be to stumble upon sentences which have gone unnoticed before. Anyway, I shouldn't discuss about the way one is working And if I had done a little more research before posting this, I could have avoided to bring up the chasmfiend/thunderclast-topic again As far as I see it, the only point which had not been discussed over and over before was that chasmfiends actually create(spin) stone in some way. But back to topic I really don't believe that abandoning the Oathpact was Jezrien's idea. Maybe he brought it up first. But I think they decided together, at least eight of them, to leave. Jezrien waited for Kalak to see if he had died. So, if Kalak had died, the others would still have abandoned the Oathpact, leaving Kalak and Talenel to go back on the otherside. They had already left their swords, after all. I believe that leaving the sword was the final act for every one of them. They leave their sword, they leave the Oathpact. If Jezrien had first convinced one other to leave the sword, the second would have arrived, seeing only one sword in the circle-to-be. And: if you're as honorable as the Heralds are/were, then deciding together to leave one of them to Odium would be a much easier decision IMO. Leaving alone would feel too much to betray the others.

WoK spoilers here. still, if you haven't read the book this will probably be hard to understand. I've read in another thread about the similarity of Gavilar's mysterious dark sphere and the beads in Shadesmar. For further study I got the quotes from the book. Gavilar's sphere is described as being a "small crystalline sphere. [...] Though it was completely dark, it seemed to glow somehow. With a light that was black" When Shallan falls into the ocean of beads, those are described as "tiny, dark glass spheres". And there are very much of them. Sadly this doesn't tell us something about whether Shallans beads seemed to glow or not. But then, she didn't really pay attention to them but was more struggling to survive. However, what really made me thinking (and what made me not post it there) was that entitiy that spoke to her. There was a voice which seemed to speak to her. And it seemed to come from a bead she hold in her hand. I haven't read anything about that voice yet, hope I didn't miss it. Let's begin with the important quotes: "You want me to change? A warm voice said in her mind, distinct and different from the cold whisper, she had heard earlier. It was deep and hollow and conveyed a sense of great age." The whisper she had heard earlier was most probably the linehead-spren (aka truthspren). So the voice speaking wasn't the spren. "[mysterious voice] I've been as I am for a great long time. [...] I sleep so much. I will change. Give me what you have. [shallan] I don't know what you mean. Please help me [mysterious voice] I will change She felt suddenly cold, as if the warmth were being drawn from her. She screamed as the bead in her fingers flared to sudden warmth.". So, who spoke? The voice seemed to come from the bead. I had the impression that there was a conscient being trapped in the bead. And it wanted very much to get out (to change, as it says) because it had been trappend in the sphere for a very long time. The voice tells Shallan that it has been as it is for a great long time. So it had been something before, probably not trapped in the bead. How do you get something (whatever it is) or the mind of something in a small sphere? Shadesmar is the cognitive realm (coppermind wiki, suppose the author got that right). So getting someone's conscienciousness to the cognitive realm seems logical to me. One could also speak of the mind or the soul being transferred. My theory (which is hardly anything but pure speculation) is, that the people's souls get to Shadesmar when killed by a Shardblade. The dark smoke rising from their eyes being the soul put in a sphere. OK, there are probably billions of spheres. If all parts of Shadesmar which are represented as ocean on the map are in fact oceans of spheres, the sheer number of spheres would make appear my theory as ridiculous. But if Shadesmar is the cognitive realm which can be accessed from everywhere in the physical realm (every shardworld) there can be other ways to get souls to Shadesmar. I'm thinking about Nightblood. I read somewhere in this forum that there was a connection between the smoke Nightblood leaks and the smoke from the eyes of people who got shardbladed. Also Shardblades don't have to send only the minds of humans to Shadesmar. If it also sends the minds of Parshendi, chasmfiends, thunderclasts, Midnight Essence there... With so many Desolations, we would get to a big number of souls/minds/consciousnesses. And that for a "great long time". Also that theory is kind of creepy...

I see you got my idea Some additional thoughts: Jezrien said, that the Heralds chose that burden willingly. I suppose Honor tried to find volonteers who would prove to be the ten most honorable people existing (of course only if they knew before of the torture to come) Why did Honor originally agree to such a thing? If we're right about the Oathpact, there doesn't seem to be a chance of getting the upperhand against Odium. He only pushes back the moment of the True Desolation. Odium is the most dangerous of the Shards, I suppose he is quite powerful as well in comparison to other Shards. The coppermind wiki tells me that Honor's intent is to uphold agreements, to bind things. (like Syl binds things to annoy Kaladin at the beginning of the book) Odium's intent would be to hate things. To destroy them, to bring desolation to the world. (Correct me if I get his intent wrong, please) Maybe all Honor could really do was to bind Odium by some sort of pact (the Oathpact). Honor's real power would be the humans who are honorable. In the time before the Last Desolation, appearently humans were much more honorable then they are now. As they lose honor, Honor loses power. (Has anybody read "Small Gods" from Terry Pratchett? )

Thanks for your replies! @ Inevitable I'm aware that the thunderclasts/chasmfiend-theory is quite unpopular. And as I said, I agree that there is the problem of where thunderclasts are now. But there is also so much similarities, so I tried to just point out those. and the whole point of The Lord Ruler, was that he actually was NOT immortal but just cery clever in using both Allomancy and Feruchemy. and IIRC he used Hemalurgy too (his bracelets spiked through his arm?). @dj the examples you bring for immortal beings are all of immortality thanks to the use of magic. But if it might very well be, that I'm wrong about that since I haven't read Elantris yet and it's been a while since I read Mistborn. Of course that leads to the question, if the Heralds themselves are immortal thanks to some use of magic. They're obviously linked to Honor in some way. as to the cutting of the chrysalis. I understood that the pupating chasmfiend is very alive in that process. Adolin first cuts the chrysalis to be able to reach the chasmfiend. He then kills it before he is able to cut his flesh to get out the gemheart. The point I tried to make is that chasmfiends are able, in some way to generate stone. Or at least some very hard substance (without Shardblades the process of getting out the gemheart takes a while). if Surgebinding covers all the magic of the KR, I didn't get that before. OK, reading the Ars Arcanum part about lashings helps In that case, I have to reconsider what I said about Surgebinders, Dustbringers and Shardwielders. @Jacob I also don't believe in the Parshendi being the Voidbringers. However, my impression is not about they being more honorabe than humans. But I intend to release some thougts about that in a theory in the next few days. Your thoughts about the Heralds (KR in your post) and the place they go between Desolations: I don't think they suffer like Szeth. Szeth doesn't stand the thought of killing people. the Heralds seem to be tortured. I also think in their point of view, the use of their power is more to protect people during Desolations ("I will protect those who cannot protect themselves") like the KR do. Their burden is more that of having to go back and whatever they have to do there. And if it's really only to get tortured, that would be a great burden. That doesn't explain why Talenel then carries the burden of all ten Heralds. If it's to get tortured, then you really need a LOT, and I mean a LOT! of honor to accept being bound by the Oathpact in order to prevent the "enemy" to come more often than during Desolations. But that would be what they do. Protect humans by sacrificing themselves. The Heralds chose their burden themselves. Maybe torture had not always been what is waiting on the otherside (that place they go between Desolations) but Odium corrupted it more and more. And, finally: @Droz I had also thought about Shadesmar. I only have the paperback edition of WoK which doesn't include the maps of Roshar in the time of the Silver Kingdoms or the map of Shadesmar. I only saw them some days ago and I am not sure yet what to make of them. If by changing realm, you stay in the same spot on Roshar or in Shadesmar, it would be interesting to see if Shardblades are wet when summoned on a ship. What made me not bring up the idea of Shadesmar is the description we get of it when Shallan goes there. The otherside of Kharbranth would be water in Shadesmar. But there is all those spheres instead. "An endless dark sea. Ecept it wasn't wet. It was made of the small beads, an entire ocean of tiny glass spheres" [another topic. but Gavilar's black sphere seems to match the description of those spheres. damnation, now I have thoughts about that sphere as well] This site already pleases me a lot...

So, I wondered for some time, what to do first in this place, there is quite a lot topics which need discussing, theorizing or just assuming wildly. I decided to start at the very beginning (who would have thought of that...) and here you get my analysis of the prelude to the Stormlight Archive. Note that it's not a prologue to one book but the prelude to all ten books-to-be. It has gotten quite long. Hope you won't get bored. I know that part of what I bring up may have already been discussed in these forums. I tried not to speculate too much (that's why I speak of an analysis and not of theories) but of course that is not so simple given the lack of information concerning what happend 4500 years ago. To do a thorough anlaysis, I, of course, can't limit myself to information coming from the prelude, so there are going to be major spoilers for tWoK. I - The setting There has been a battle on a plain. As I noted before, I suppose that the plain where the battle took place is the now Shattered Plains. It is described by Kalak as The Heralds meet This description seems to fit what we see of the SP. But I must say that surely it will fit lots of other plains on Roshar as well. A better clue, however is the following one: From the map showing the Alethi Warcamps, we know that there is a "mighty river" to the north of the camps. As to why the SP are shattered, I know there is some theories out there. It could however just be erosion. In 4500 years there were a lot of highstorms. We see in the prelude that the rock had been damaged by the battle, the erosion could just have widenend and deepened the existing cracks. The battle ended a Desolation. That Desolation was the one later called the Last Desolation, Aharietiam. It is the moment, when the Heralds departed. They then told the people, that they had won and defeated the Voidbringers, which is widely believed and taught by Vorinism. However it is not true. Ok, I set time and place of the prelude. The great thing is, that there is so much more questions in it II - Thunderclasts The prelude starts with a description of a thunderclast. There is a theory out there which states that thunderclasts are what chasmfiends pupate into. I originally agreed to that theory, I don't do anymore. - it is a stone beast, it has granite shoulders. Chasmfiends don't. If they were made out of stone, shardblades would have cut the legs. When they pupate they grow a chrysalis which at first sight seems to be made out of stone. Because of that I initially believed that chasmfiends can in some way generate stone, making themselces stonebeasts. The chrysalis is lifeless, if not, Adolin couldn't have cut it with his Shardblade. But when caterpillars pupate to butterflies they leave their cocoon/chrysalis behind, separated from their body, lifeless. Finally, the chrysalis' shell is later described as "like thick stone". It's just very hard carapace or something similar. - thunderclasts rip themselves free from stone. Now, according to what I just said, the chrysalis is not stone. - thunderclasts have red eyes, the chasmfiend who failed to kill Elhokar had green eyes. But the colour of a chasmfiends eye seems to match that of his gemheart. Not enough evidence there in favor or against any theory. - The chasmfiend has violet blood. On the battlefield there is red, orange and violet blood. While red blood is human, orange blood is parshendi. Violet is the colour of crustacean's blood. So this just indicates that there where crustaceans present in the battle. Could be chasmfiends (after all I assume that the plain in the Prelude is the Shattered Plains where chasmfiends live). Could be chulls as well, or some other greatshell used in the battle. - The "Historical Greatshell Picture" which is described to show a Voidbringer shows a chasmfiend from what Dalinar says. Still, Dalinar sees thunderclasts in his Nohadon vision and believes them to be Voidbringers. He certainly would have recognized chasmfiends there. It is more likely that chasmfiends were mistaken for Voidbringers. So. thunderclasts are not chasmfiends, that is sure, I think. If they are what chasmfiends pupate into, then there is no real evidence to support it yet, except for the question what they really pupate into. (It's dragons, wouldn't that be cool?) But what are thunderclasts? They obviously fought alongside the Voidbringers during Desolations. A theory proposed is that they are summoned by the Voidbringers. Which would somehow make sense: - I imagine the summoning process like infusing stone with storm/void-light to get the cognitive part to come out. - of course there is no stone formation like thunderclasts so they have to rip themselves free of the stone not needed around them. - Midnight Essence (Dalinar's first vision) is one of the Ten Deaths. If those are deathly creatures made of one of the Essences (as has been theorized as well), then it would make perfectly sense for thunderclasts to be another of the Ten Deaths. - Then why is there so many mentions of thunderclasts and none of the other Ten Deaths? Because on Roshar there is so damnation much stone, they are most easily to summon and damnation hard to kill. this part edited 02-20-12 to point out that thunderclasts (1.)are not chasmfiends, (2.) are probably not what chasmfiends pupate into and (3.) propose an explanation of what they are. III - Dustbringers Kalak mentions Surgebinders and Dustbringers. Surgebinding is one of that magic-systems. What about Dustbringers? Dustbringers could be an order of the KR like Windrunners. To be another magic system would be strange. Why mention another magic system at the beginning and nowhere else in the book? It's the Prelude to the Stormlight Archive, but still... Dustbringing is some kind of burning things. If they can put rock on fire, it could be really useful against thunderclasts. If it's an order of the KR, we need a surge (elemental force) which can put stone on fire. Any physicists? temperature and pressure come to mind. but of course atomic manipulation should work as well. I'm really not good at physics but I believe that the Earth core is magma (which is fluid stone in a way) because of the high pressure and temperature in the core. Again: any physicists out there? Edited 02-20-12 to exclude "Shardwielding" from this post and change my opinion about Dustbringers. IV - The Oathpact The next topic is more complicated, I fear. The cycle of Desolations, the Oathpact, the place where the Heralds go between Desolations. What do we know? Heralds will come to Roshar (the phyical aspect) to announce the coming of a Desolation. We even see it at the end, when Talenel comes to Kholinar to announce "the Desolation". The Heralds will fight during the Desolation, if they die, they get automatically back to that place. If they survive, they have to go back. Why do they have to? Because it's part of the Oathpact. So,where do they go. As it is not in the physical realm, it could be one of the other two. One thing made me think in the epilogue: It speaks of Talenel who has come to announce the Desolation. Why should he be wet? The Shardblades also are wet, when summoned from wherever they are. Maybe the Heralds come from that same place. What is a Desolation exactly? There is no real information about that. We know that there is a cycle of them. There has been lots of them and it's been a very long time since the first Desolation. We also know that at least part of it is a battle. It could also be that a Desolation is only the battle. Nohadon tells us that the Desolation preceeding the Nohadon vision has lasted eleven (?) years. So it's the Voidbringers spawning somewhere and battling humanity. The Desolation lasts until the Voidbringers are defeated or pushed back to where they come from (the Tranquiline Halls if you believe in Vorinism). Well, to the Oathpact now. That's a pact between at least two parties with a content which binds both parties. One party is the Heralds. Maybe it's Honor (the Almighty) who sends the Heralds to fullfill the Oathpact. The other party is the enemy. Maybe Odium. The content is subject to a lot of speculation. So, what do we know? The Oathpact implies the Cycle of Desolations. Abandoning the Oathpact would eventually end the cycle of Desolations. One part of the Oathpact probably is, that the "enemy" is allowed to try to conquer Roshar. The Heralds are allowed to announce the Desolations to give men a chance to prepare for the Desolation. So long as the Oathpact exists, the "enemy" is bound to the cycle as well. Kalak and Jezrien aren't sure, whether the "enemy" will stay bound if there is only one Herald left who is bound by the Oathpact. The Heralds don't seem to know what will happen, when the Oathpact is shattered. That's some of the clues to the nature of the Oathpact. I believe that actually, there was never a possibility to win. The Voidbringers would only just come again and again. And the Heralds would resist again and again. The content of the Pact would then be: Leave the humans in peace. Just every other century there will and has to be a Desolation. In return you get the Heralds for the time between the Desolations (to feed on. To build up forces.) That would be some kind of a compromise between Honor and Odium. What Honor does is binding things. Odium hates things. So Odium gets to destroy every now and then, while Honor binds him to the Oathpact. I remeber BS once said (or maybe it was in Mistborn HoA) that there is always a balance between shards. To destroy, there has to be something that can be destroyed. That kind of idea. So when the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact, the "enemy" didn't consider himself bound anymore. So he could wait for the humans to turn on each other. And then the Everstorm comes. The role of Talenel in that story. First note the epigraph of chapter 54: This implies that the Herals had a burden to carry. That what be to uphold the Oathpact. But if that would simply mean torture, Talenels burden would not get magnified by the departing of the other nine Heralds. When Talenel arrives in the epilogue he says: In what did Talenel fail? The obvious answer would be: in preventing the Desolation. Which brings us to my idea that the Heralds actually had something to do with when the Desolation would come. Either they could fight it off, or they build up the enemys forces by getting tortured: The second option would explain, why the time between the Last Desolation and the events in WoK was so long. Obviously if there is only one out of ten to feed upon, it will take longer to build up force. The first option would explain, why Talenel thinks that he failed. In that case the long period between the Last Desolation and the Everstorm would only be due to Odium waiting for the humans to turn on each other. Also, when there is only one Herald left, it will be easier for him to win. I realize that there is much speculation in this part of the analysis. But I hope to bring up some new points (I really don't know if all this already been brougt up) Edited 02-20-12 to insert the duration of Desolations. Also, as has been mentioned, some people think, there is more to Jezrien abandoning or maybe convinving the others to abandon the Oathpact. V - The Heralds From the prelude we know not much about them. There are ten of them. One of them is a king. What really bothers me is the immortal part. I haven't read Elantris yet, but I don't recall any immortal beings in BSs books apart from the Shards. What about Hoid? Is their immortality part of the Oathpact as well? In that case, wouldn't they become mortal by abandoning the pact? I don't think they do, because I believe that they will still have to play an active role in the story. Edit: there is immortal beings in Mr.Sanderson's stories. To me it still seems that immortality comes with the use of magic in a special way. the Divine Breath grants immortality, as long as you get a Breath per week. Which also is just using the fact that you CAN get Breaths to be immortal. But this shows that Shards can in some way grant immortality. Let's just suppose that this is what Honor did to the Heralds. VI - The Honorblades Referred to as Honorblades by Mr.Sanderson himself. From the Brandonthology: More powerful than Shardblades. Don't function in the same way, they only disappear when the bearer goes back to the place where he goes between Desolations. But then, maybe they only disappear from the physical realm and just change worlds with its bearer. They come from Honor and were given to the Heralds. If they have to leave them when abandoning the Oathpact, I suppose they were given to fulfill the Oathpact. I also had the idea that the blades were what bound the Heralds. The other things we know to bind people are the Dawnshards: Jasnah's notes, chapter 36The Dawnshards seem to be things like the Oath Rod in the WoT. The Dawnshards could also bind voidish creatures, so maybe that's what bound the "enemy" in the first place. Again, mostly speculation on my part. One question remains. Where are they now? The nine most powerful objects on Roshar. They must have been discovered. And while the Heralds were seen as Gods, their blades must play an interesting role as well. From the quote above we know that they can be used by anyone. I don't believe they have been left on the Shattered Plains after the Heralds left. A simple idea would be that the KR took them to Urithiru. Another, stranger one would be that the Parshendi, who actually were allies during Desolations stayed on the SP to guard the Honorblades for the eventuality that the Heralds would come back. (And they try to find the most honorable fighters in the Alethi army to give them Honorblades. Of course there is only one, maybe two, counting Adolin who just followed the Codes because of his father until the end of WoK.) Which really is hard speculation Yep, that was it. I'm only halfway through my second read of WoK so maybe there will be other clues until I finish it. Edits are possible. First edit: 02-20-12: structuring the post, correcting some typos. Changed my mind about thunderclasts. Excluded Shardwielding. Added a funny theory about Honorblades.

yeah, Tel will do very well. And yes, there is a meaning. There is a scene, at the end of the Lord of the Rings where Aragorn explains that Telcontar will be the name of his house. It is in fact the translation of his Ranger name "Strider" in Quenya. His name as king of Gondor and is Elessar Telcontar. as to my idea about the shattered plains, I wouldn't call it a theory yet, I have to consider that thought a little bit more for that, but eventually I will come up with my ideas.

* Way of King Spoilers in this post Moin moin! it's been about a month since I finished WoK and I've already begun my second read. I suppose that's why I decided to join you. If there's a book which makes me read it a second time almost directly after I first finished it, then it's pretty good. Well I picked up Mistborn back when I wanted to try out that guy who was going to write AMoL. I have read Warbreaker as well. Elantris is still on the list, mostly because I'd like to read it in english and to do so I would have to command it and I'm the type of reader who loves to go to a bookstore and pick up books. There's another reason I joined: when I started with WoT I was amazed at how many discussions there are on all those fansites (theoryland, tar-valon.net, that kind of stuff) and I regretted that I had not been there from the start. I do have that possibility now with the Stormlight Archive and WoK proves to be a pretty good start. And of course there's some questions to which I hope I'll get the answers. One day... - I had the impression that the place where the heralds met in the prelude is an earlier version of the Shattered Plains. Just not shattered yet. - who would kill somebody and let people know you did it? in our world the only people I can think of is terrorists. But those have or pretend to have political goals. I don't think the Parshendi have those, so if you let the Alethi know, you did it, it's to get pursued. So I believe the Parshendi intended to be besieged on the Plains. One reason could be to leave Alethkar unprotected or destabilized. (there are more, but this is just the introduction... ) - but somehow I don't believe the Parshendi are the "bad guys" - Did Aragorn have a copy of "The Way of Kings"? There's more, of course, but this is enough for an introduction. I suppose. Telcontar If you have problems to understand what I'm trying to say, don't hesitate to point it out. I'm no native speaker, so just ask, I'll try to be more precise next time.