digitalbusker

1 hour ago, IronBars said:

Teft being a crack head wasn't foreshadowed

In Words of Radiance, the very first time Kaladin is like "Hey, where's Teft?" we immediately cut to Tyn using firemoss. I'm not trying to convince you of anything; that's just something I noticed on a reread that was interesting to me.

11 minutes ago, LH1407 said:

Ah so what you're saying is that Kaladin is just a creation of Jasnah that she used to annoy Shallan while she was off playing dead?

Oh em gee! I had not thought this all the way through, but there's no other explanation!

We don't know that Fused have two surges a piece. So far we've seen one per Fused.

Alethi, especially high ranking lighteyes, are crazy backstabby. The only reason Dalinar isn't on Gavilar's list is he wouldn't have contracted out the job.

It will be revealed that Jasnah can use Transportation and Transformation to create remotely operated simulacra, and every time a darkeyes sass-talks Dalinar or Shallan, it was actually Jasnah.

1 minute ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Mraize hides aluminum guns from Scadrial in his slippers, and murders the real Ash with these. The "Ash" we think we know is WalDo, the worldhopping Kandra, currently aligned with the Ghostbloods. We learn this in Ashs flashback book, of course.

That's what I'm talking about!

21 minutes ago, Leyrann said:

Uh.

That sounds kinda random. Not gonna lie.

Thank you for your honesty.

So we know we're getting flashback books in the back five from characters that are currently active. Now those flashbacks don't have to be concurrent with the current narrative, but say they are. What crazy stuff is happening right now that we won't find out about for another ten or fifteen years?

My money's on May Aladar having a torrid affair with Renarin and/or Jasnah that ends with her being killed to stop her from activating a doomsday fabrial at the moment of Shallan and Adolin's wedding.

6 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Thats my issue, we dont know what kind of spren glys was before so and as i said above renarin was put in truthwatcher based on the assumption that order could see the future, because it fit the name and renarins abilities, we now know that isnt the case so rather then being complicated i think its simple - renarin isnt a truthwatcher in any sense (with the info we currently have) i dont see how anyone can argue that.

Renarin definitely has Progression, and it seems to work normally, so we assume that Glys started out as a spren from an order with Progression.

Wyndle is pretty clear that no other Cultivationspren have been sent to bond, so that rules them out, and Truthwatchers are the other order with Progression.

1 minute ago, IronBars said:

Red investiture signifies one shard's investiture being "corrupted" by another's.

Which is why Glys is red.

Not that Odium isn't involved, in all the cases you cite. He is. It's just that Glys's color doesn't necessarily indicate that he's controlled by or loyal to Odium.

That above quote made it seem you were implying glys wasnt corrupted by odium, unless i somehow misread it, but its how it seemed, and since cultivation is the other shard on roshar seemed you implied she corrupted say a spren from honour.

Fair enough if i misread it

I see where the misstep is now. When I granted you Odium's involvement in "all the cases you cite," I meant that to include Glys. Glys is definitely carrying around some of Odium's investiture. Sorry for being all haughty above.

My argument is that Glys was until recently a standard member of whatever you call the kind of spren that bonds Truthwatchers (carrying whatever mixture of Honor and Cultivation is standard for his type), but was"corrupted" by Sja-Anat, which turned him red and changed the powers he can grant to Renarin. What it does not seem to have done, however, is make Glys switch sides.

Is Glys still a Truthwatcher spren? Are the corrupted pain spren in Kholinar still pain spren? It seems like a philosophical question more than anything. Which is why I say the question of whether Renarin is a Truthwatcher is complicated.

20 minutes ago, IronBars said:

So is your argument that renarins spren isnt an odium spren that he is infact lets say a cultivation spren ?

Every other red spren in SA seems to be odiums so that is a stretch imo but maybe your right, just has powers associated with odium by chance i guess

That is not remotely my argument, and if you honestly came away from my post with that impression, I think we're done here.

"So is your argument that we're about halfway done here?"

ETA: @MountainKing Other red spren that I can think of:

Flamespren

Angerspren

Stormspren

Nergaoul

Not, notably, whatever Ulim is.

Hopefully one of our Arcanum ninjas can swoop in with the supporting WoB for this, because I don't have time to look it up right now, but: Red isn't Odium's color (it's gold). Red investiture signifies one shard's investiture being "corrupted" by another's. Which is why Glys is red. Not that Odium isn't involved, in all the cases you cite. He is. It's just that Glys's color doesn't necessarily indicate that he's controlled by or loyal to Odium.

ETA: the part of that that there's a WoB for is the significance of the color red. Gold being Odium's color is well supported, I think, but that's not something that's been explicitly canonized as far as I know.

11 minutes ago, DocHoliday said:

I thought Teft had only sworn the second ideal?

He swore the third "I will protect even those I hate..." at the end of Oathbringer, which is how he got the blade he needed to operate the oathgate to come to the rescue at Thaylen City.

29 minutes ago, IronBars said:

I might be in the minority here but i dont think moash hates himself, i thing what we see from him is resignation not hate, also think he was just given the honourblade as a reward, most likely because a fused/regal/parshman can not use them, only humans can, 

I'm with you on Moash's level of self hatred being much lower than it should be. Whether the honor blade can be used by non-humans or not gets a big ol shrug from me, at this point.

27 minutes ago, IronBars said:

The fact its a corrupted spren makes it an odium spren, renarin had the red eyes to prove it

Go ahead and cite where it defines what an "Odium spren" is and that red eyes are proof of that. And where Renarin's eyes glow red, for that matter. Bonus points if you also cover what, if anything, makes Glys different from Ulim and co, or the Voidspren that provide Listener forms of power, and whether they should count as Odium spren too.

15 minutes ago, IronBars said:

Renarin is bonded to an odium spren so cant be a truthwatcher so shouldnt be there imo

Where is it said light spren represent willshapers ? Dont recall reading that could you say where thats said so i can look it up, thanks

Glys is, as far as we can tell, a standard Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by Sja-Anat. That doesn't make him an Odium spren. You're entitled to your opinion that Renarin shouldn't count as a Truthwatcher for that or any other reason; like I said, it's complicated.

The association of Lightspren (aka Reachers) with Willshapers is never explicitly stated, nor is it explicitly confirmed that Timbre is a Lightspren. It's mostly process of elimination. We have accounted for most everything else. The brief version: Eshonai seemed to fit the idea of a Willshaper pretty well, and Timbre was trying to bond her. We have a WoB that Venli is of the same order as her sister. As for why we think she's a Lightspren, compare Captain Ico's description of his father and daughter to Timbre's description of her grandfather. In the physical realm, Timbre communicates with Venli via pulses, and the Reachers on Ico's ship communicate via some kind of similar vibration system through copper conductors.

Also: assuming that there were in fact one member (or future member) of each Order represented at the end of Oathbringer, the only orders we don't firmly have a lock on are Stonewards, Releasers (Dustbringers), and Willshapers. We have reasons to expect Ash and Taln to be a Releaser and a Stoneward, respectively, so that leaves Willshaper for Venli.

1 minute ago, IronBars said:

Im very late to this post, apologies for dredging it up, but renarin is not a truth watcher so he should be removed from that section, also why is venli listed as a willshaper ?

The question of whether Renarin "counts" as a Truthwatcher is complicated, and will probably come up in world. He certainly merits an asterisk, but I think the notation in the original post is sufficient.

Venli is listed as a Willshaper because she is bonded to Timbre, who is a Lightspren, which is the kind of spren associated with Willshapers.

5 hours ago, Willshaping Crasher said:

If anything, I think Moash would be a good fit for the Odium shard.  Hatred has been brewing in him for a long time.  However, that shard is already owned.

 

Yeah, it got owned pretty hard at the end of Oathbringer.

Did the missing Shalash statue in the palace at Kholinar get destroyed or was it removed? Maybe Gavilar, a man so devoted to his religious reverence of the Heralds that he thinks bringing about an apocalypse is a fair price to pay for bringing them back, somehow also decided to break up his heraldic statuary set, because reasons. And the "paraphrased" WoB where he volunteers information about that statue in particular after being asked about statues of Shalash in general is paraphrased in the sense of omitting "...Not!" from end of the critical sentence, because additional reasons. It doesn't matter.

Regardless of whether Gavilar's Shalash statue was "removed" by the same person who destroyed all the other depictions of Shalash, we know Ash isn't compelled to destroy depictions of all Heralds. Just her. We know this from her PoV, and from observing what has actually been done.

And the quote where the narration says Jezrien and then Ash says "father" out loud: the narration is not a direct transcript of the PoV character's thoughts. It has to take some liberties so the reader can follow it. When the viewpoint character's thoughts are being directly transcribed, that's indicated with italics. In this case, since the books are written for a general audience, including people who might not have figured out that Ash is Shalash, or remember that Jezrien is Shalash's father, Brandon dropped in the proper noun, even though the viewpoint character wouldn't have used it. It's a pretty common thing.

2 hours ago, Dunkum said:

Except we know from his later conversation with the Stormfather that whatever he did was painful to the Stormfather.  So whatever it was, and I'm certainly willing to accept that it wasn't as simple as just forming a shardblade, it wasn't just taking a bunch of stormlight and creating a key.  At a guess, I'd say he pulled on at least some part of the Stormfather and used that.

Yeah I don't think anybody thinks it was just Stormlight. In order to satisfy whatever condition is met by a sprenblade, presumably the investiture he used was part of the Stormfather, who is, after all, sapient investiture, like all spren.

ETA: that sentence, I think you'll agree, could really, really have used some more, I guess you'd call them, commas, right?

3 minutes ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Stick: Overrated.

@Toaster Retribution: Cray-ola.

28 minutes ago, Grajilla said:

Yes, I was aware about that, and I read that the whole moment was really funny, but the pun seems really disappointing to me. Probably I should wait for the official translation. Thanks!

If you get the splinter/hand pun, but just don't think it's all that funny, your English is much better than my Spanish.

I read the sick mind thing as about the hypothetical hallucination, but Vorin prudishness is good too.

16 minutes ago, insert_anagram_here said:

Does it say somewhere that 17th Shard should only be used for analysis and not for creating discussion exercises? 

As Rshara said earlier and I answered back to her:

If you find that I've hijacked the thread and I'm completely irrelevant to the original post feel free to report me.

I'm not here to enforce forum rules. The question of analysis versus creative discussion was about whether what you're doing is likely to get you what you say you want.

I think we're probably past diminishing returns on this conversation now, so I'll take my leave.

It could be that there was something they had to do with the dagger and the Honorblade before giving it to Moash, but we don't have any obvious clues what. It could also be that they didn't want to risk Jezrien seeing his blade, snapping into lucidity, and fighting back with it.