Extesian

A few big additions for me. Silverlight!! The fact that there's an entire population of worldhoppers, big enough to have universities (plural). And the presence of the IRE as a separate entity. Throw in the knowledge that to pick up a Shard you must be sufficiently connected to that Shard in the first place. Edit - argh Silverlight was from AU. My bad. But the stuff with the IRE, their plan to seize the Preservation Shard, how they needed to do it and their pipes of investiture (?) were pretty intriguing.

Try not to get too discouraged by the responses @snote. We all just like to get specific with understanding and terminology because there's so much intricacy to the magic systems and we all want the same thing, to understand them better. Spool's explanation of investiture is as always spot on and it's worth thinking about properly. I think the key questions to answer for your specific theory are: Could Vasher (who gathers the treasure of breaths) have gotten Stormlight from Roshar at that time? Probably, he or at least one of the Scholars was there, they based Nightblood on Shardblades. I'm not sure if we know whether he was capable of absorbing Stormlight back then (he certainly is now). Could he have used Stormlight to awaken back then? We know that can be done, but equally we know that it seems he did not as he can't now and why would he lose the ability? So yes its probably possible but we basically know it wasn't the case. Could he have used Stormlight to create Breaths, as we know the treasure is in the form of Breaths? Same answer as the previous except that we don't even know that it's even possible to convert investiture. Yes investiture used for certain purposes is interchangeable (eg to feed Nightblood) but not for specific magic uses in the absence of the system being hacked. And as Sppol said that's not a conversion of the investiture itself, it's just changing what flavor of investiture can be used as fuel. I think the main thing to realize is why Vasher is on Roshar. It's not to more easily get investiture to use in awakening. It's because he's a Returned who (as far as we know) effectively has his soul stapled onto his old corpse. That requires one breath each week to maintain that stapling. He cannot (currently) use any old investiture to awaken but he CAN use any old investiture to stay alive. That's why the WoBs say he can use Stormlight. But he can't use it for awakening and, presumably, can't convert it into Breath. So it's a good theory and it raises one of the most important Cosmere questions - using more easily available investiture to power more potent Cosmere magics. Could that be done in the future? Maybe. Was that what actually happened? I think not from the WoBs.

This is something I like about this community. Politics is a no-no but deep, detailed, respectful discussions about the intricacies and even merits of religion are cool.

And here I was thinking Brandon was actually a construct of thousands of tiny independent interlocking sentient metal beings. Metallic hordelings if you will. Seems I've been schooooled.

Brilliant, should at least be one person able to record at each event! I've never been lucky enough to go to one myself, I was living in Prague when he was in Australia and now I'm in Australia when he's in Europe But I understand they're pretty relaxed and Brandon is usually cool with recordings if you ask. And hopefully some extra questions for people if the attendance isn't as large as in the States? But maybe I'm underestimating his fan base there.

I can't find the WoB I'm thinking of but I'm sure I saw something that said Nightblood will not grant surges on Roshar but will give some other kind of powers? Makes sense as he doesn't have a connection to Honor/Cultivation, he can just eat stormlight which will power his own powers. I'm just guessing here with both of these but I think Shardblades are god-metal, but that as that metal is (presumably) not one of the 16 that it would be allomantically/feruchemically unusable. Atium is usable but because it's a god-metal from a shard that co-created Scadrial. We know there are other metals, like silver, that have no allomantic effect.

Seonid Savant 1,586 posts Posted January 26, 2016 · I asked if the Shard that just wants to survive has something like the intent of fear. Brandon replied that that shard's intent is only tangentially related to what's going on. That shard is well aware of what is n going on in the Cosmere, and is smart enough to try and just get away from it all Edit: ooh beaten to it

Yeah I have this soap opera quasi messianic idea stuck in my head that Vo was the first Returned because he was Endowment's godly son, was killed and in desperation she used her power to restore his life not realizing (or being bound in nature) that he would die after a week without someone else's sacrifice of Breath. And that since then in some desire to honor his memory and such she does the same thing to others to let them do great acts. That is definitely not a theory though, just a fun and slightly ridiculous backstory.

Yeah I like this. As with my own and with @Khyrindor's there are still parts that seem doubtful, but the pushing/pulling division makes some sense (even if a couple of examples i feel they're the wrong way - the temporal ones particularly) and I particularly like some of the terminology, consumption particularly and also transformation. I keep wanting to work Fear (or caution) into this, for the Shard who's hiding and just coz it's such a natural one, but I'm but sure where, maybe opposite Enlightenment/Knowledge. Edit - ah and I just saw your comment @Khyrindor, I haven't seen the WoB about the Shard that's hiding not having the intent of survival, rather than fear I'm wondering if it's Caution/Inertia - not the inertia Preservation has, to keep everything the same but not be afraid about acting to maintain stuff, but to be overly cautious about consequences, instinctively non-interventionist but not in philosophy, rather because of uncertainty or lack of commitment.

Yeah this is my take, that it's one thing to kill a Vessel and quite another to Splinter the Shard they carry. It may be that Splintering a Shard will always kill the Vessel (I've seen nothing for it against that) and that the WoB is just talking about the effort Odium expended in killing his opponents, but I think it means that there's an entirely separate process to perform the Splintering.

I just discovered this. I hope it's not necroing to say this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. The very greatest.

I love the idea. I don't think it would lock in the future but it may weight it that way amongst the numerous possible futures. I don't know if it's been suggested but this would explain the Vorin prohibition on foretelling the future. Fear that by predicting it you make it more likely to happen. And I also don't know if this has been discussed long previously, but could the way Mr T operates is through boosted connection? At his most brilliant, he sees connections like a Shard and has the intelligence to understand it, at his lower intelligence points he has strong connections to everything and is only simple enough to feel rather than understand?

Aah yes thank you Spool, quite right, I'd forgotten that.

So this is barely a theory, more a call for theories with one mini-theory and other possibilities. We know a Shardholder (Vessel) can have children. My main idea. Austre is the child of Endowment. It's been proposed before that Austre, Nalthis' "God of colors" is Endowment. We know this is wrong. While there's almost no evidence for it, I could find no evidence against the idea that Austre was a child of Endowment. A little bit messianic/holy trinity style but explaining the reverence, knowledge and power he is presumed to have had. I'd love to hear anything debunking it. And just because the idea of Shardlings fascinates me, here are some very unformed ideas for other possibilities. Honor and Cultivation: the Heralds Autonomy: Trell Preservation: Senna Now I don't believe these ones (though it would be fascinating if that was the Heralds origin). But it's just something to get ideas flowing. As always I'm grateful for these ideas being mercilessly debunked

I thought I'd start an event thread for the two events in Poland Brandon is doing in a few weeks. First is in Warsaw 18 March at 12pm at the Empik Junior Bookstore, Ul. Marszałkowska 116 / 122, Warsaw, Poland. Second in beautiful Krakow at 5pm on the 21 March, at Empik Bonarka Bookstore, Ul. Kamieńskiego 11, Kraków, Poland. Both have a reading, Q&A and signing and given the wealth of information in recent events there could be some good stuff. Also I'm guessing as there are probably fewer Sharders in Poland (though I know of a few) there may be the chance for more detailed questions. I'm happy to do transcriptions if anyone is lucky enough to be attending and records either event. edit: I've just been informed that the Krakow signing is now at 5pm today (21 March) Edit - a completed transcript of the Krakow signing is here and the audio kindly supplied by @swieczq is here for anyone who wants to listen to the original. There are some parts where the audio was too unclear to be sure. All the relevant WoBs should be done though a few other questions are briefly summarized and time stamped on case you want to check the audio or update. Below is also the transcript, spoilered for size. This post will be updated when the Krakow ones are finalized. Edit - here's the q&a from Warsaw And here's the interview transcript put together by @Oversleep and others!

I agree with this entirely (see below WoBs). My only point about the Vessel is that could influence the 'name' the Shard takes on and yeah just a little bit the way the Vessel enacts that intent. But it's more about naming (eg Ruin could have been decay or entropy or division or something else, Preservation could be stasis or inertia, the shard who just wants to survive could be fear or survival, autonomy could be free will, or non-interference - all depending a little on the vessel).

Yeah I like some of these further thoughts. @Rasarr I noticed that WoB this morning as well and wondered about how much the Shatterers determined the division of intents. I don't think it's enough to rule out certain intents but it may be enough to explain why it's not an 'even' breaking into opposing pairs. And I feel it's less about the reason they killed Adonalsium and more about what aspect of Him they thought was important, either as a group or as individuals. @Mati the WoB you're thinking of is this one I think. So yeah the names or exact intents could depend on the nature of the Vessel.

Hmm we do have this from a couple of years ago though.

A couple of quick points (sorry if it's a necro). Shards definitely don't automatically splinter when the Vessel is killed. Well, in that example I guess Honor was splintered but Preservation wasn't. And in terms of trolling There's this And great stuff @imriel452, can't believe I only just saw this post!

It's a graphic representation of the Mandelbrot set, it's a mathematical function and related to the Julia set, of which a slice was the map of Roshar. And I know you're from Australia,I was wondering where, but that's ok

Where do you live? Like, not exactly roughly

Unfortunately no, I'm not bad at finding things through theoryland but I struggle with Reddit where there could be something. That said I very much doubt that Brandon would give anything on a link to Yolen, that's mostly RAFO-bait from what I've seen, with Liar being non-canon. I think he's generally RAFO'd things about fain life on the occasion they've been asked. What I am surprised about is that there haven't been more questions to him on Mraize's collection as it's one of the best cosmere-fan tidbits in WoR. If you find anything though I'd love to see it. I should add though that the best theory I've seen on the branch is that it's a dakhor bone. See here. I'd like it to be fain life but I have my doubts.

This And this All I could find though there's plenty of theorising here.

I believe so? If only half are whole and we (probably) know Odium only did Ambition, Devotion, Dominion and Honor, that leaves a few. Though on second thought that last WoB doesn't rule out Odium doing more Splintering on between. But that's a fair few missing. I have a theory that at least one Vessel self-splintered as a sacrifice to avoid their dangerous Shard falling into the wrong hands but it's not a popular theory.

Thanks @Khyrindor I'm not remotely attached to my groupings just figured it's a way to structure thinking, as i instinctively feel it's groupings rather than pairs. I thought of other themes or patterns like emotion/action/philosophy/goal, instinct vs thought, action vs inaction, self vs others, means vs ends etc but there are a lot of combinations. If the approach leads to better refinement (as I'm thinking about this at work and my categories and particularly my names are very ad hoc) then I'm very happy.