Extesian

This is a good point @Calderis and @windrunningmistborn. Taln's presumably was not on Roshar for 4000 years. And surely they all weren't between Desolations. Which makes me interested in the mechanics. We know Honor Gabe direct access to his investiture to the Heralds, through the Honorblades. I'd suggest when a Herald dies the Honorblade basically returns to Honor in the form of Investiture and maybe the Oathpact worked so that as soon as the Heralds return (whether directly or but having them stapled onto a new person's body) the Honorblade returns to them. I think firstly that by leaving them behind when they abandoned the Oathpact they severed that connection and enabled the Honorblades to stay. Secondly, perhaps Honor's splintering now affects this as the Honorblades, I guess made of Investiture, don't have that integrated source to return to.

So a bit on splinters. They are investiture of Adonalsium that has noone holding the power, and are sentient. Odium has spren 'Some' spren that Parshendi bond with have a whole that Odium can use to take control There are spren that are not sentient And we know that the spren Parshendi bond are at least not sapient. Sapient is different from sentient though, but we already know the Unmade are splinters, and we know this. I don't know of one specifically saying voidspren are sentient, I got the distinct impression they're not sapient but are sentient. But we know that some Unmade aren't sapient but they're all still Odium splinters. We also know that Odium has spren and presumably these are the non-sapient holey spren we know as voidspren. So I think that yes, voidspren are splinters of Odium. Really the only question is whether they're sentient, even if they're not sapient.

The question this idea brings up (and Argent is right, it's not plausible with the non-canon-for-now Oathbringer prologue reading) is what Nightblood's leaky investiture and the light in the sphere have in common. Because this is your thread Calderis I won't spoiler what we know, but just like there's heaps of discussion on the color red, there must be something there. Corrupted investiture is a theory because I think we know Nightblood's investiture is corrupted (/Nightblood corrupts the investiture he eats). Though I can't find an explicit WoB on that, but there is this. So perhaps it's a mixing of Shardic power. We'll know in Oathbringer.

My chalklings would be in the shape of the slice of the Mandelbrot set that my profile pic has.

Thanks for the input @Djarskublar, my main aim of the post was to establish, as much as possible, that Honor's Perpendicularity isn't in the Highstorms, and then throw up one alternative. I'm also very happy for the discussion to expand to other perpendicularities generally on Roshar though as I do agree with you that they may have just come through another one (not Cultivation's as we as good as know that's in the Hornearter peaks). With the realm boundaries on Roshar being thin I could definitely see other perpendicularities forming and Ivory leaves distinct room for that possibility. But I agree junctions sounds like more, and I definitely still think the Highstorms may be one (or at least thin enough to count as a junction, if not a slide-in slide-out Shardpool). I also agree that Origin could be a likely option for such a juncture, or potentially Honor's Perpendicularity (though the problem there is we have no indication that Origin moves). And thanks @Thanatos, definitely the Highstorms predate the arrival of the Shards and they are invested now. However i don't believe we know for sure that they were invested by Adonalsium, they may have just been part of the ecosystem and subsequently invested by the Shards. Either way they're highly invested now, which probably explains the thin boundaries between the realms there. Whether or not they have a Perpendicularity is another matter. I'm fond of the idea they don't naturally have investiture, they pick it up each cycle from Origin.

Yeah here's the quote from Axies If the legends have crept into the general knowledge of most peoples I feel they actually live very long lifetimes and it's only very recently to them. I feel hundreds of years but that's speculation.

I really like this analysis @jamesgrey. I've wondered before as well if Honor basically voluntarily meet his demise at the timing of his choosing because of a larger plan, to prevent Odium splintering him completely and to trap Odium (though I think Odium was trapped long, long before the splintering. Here's a WoB that, with ideas like yours, could explain Brandon laughing (evilly, I believe) For this reason I've thought maybe he effectively passed some of the power to Cultivation's vessel, though there may be realmatic and Intent problems with that. So I like your way of looking at it, even if we'll need a lot more to have any kind of confidence. Tbh I have doubts it would be an immortal individual holding the power though. I think it's possible it's a spren though, like Cusicesh. I have serious doubts about that, but I feel it's more likely that if your theory is correct, the power is stored in a place or a thing, rather than a person. Either way, good thinking and welcome to the Shard!

Yeah as people have indicated, there are issues with the greatshell perpendicularity idea and I don't think Hoid's digestive adventure is enough to suggest they have them. I don't rule it out, with the kind of Investiture required to keep them from collapsing it's conceivable tiny perpendicularities could form but I have real doubts, and can't imagine Hoid spending so long in one when there are other ways out of Roshar. Either way I couldn't believe that Honor's Perpendicularity would be in one, even if it does move. I concede it is possible, it fits the moving story, but I can't see why it would only be in one and it wouldn't make sense for it to switch. And of course all indications are that He only has one. I'm curious about any other optiobs though for where it could be, why it would be in the ocean (which I increasingly think is possible) or otherwise why it would be around the Unclaimed Hills if not for my questionable 'gravitating-towards-kinetic-investiture' theory

I'm glad for this for those who will use it, though I fear I won't - using the All Activity on this site means I'm confident I never miss anything new from the community, now I'll always worry I'm missing ground breaking things on the Discord :'( Talk about first-world problems

There's quite a good description on the Coppermind, but under Aimia, because that's where they're from - they're Dysian Aimians. NB there's a range of minor spoilers ahead They're a form of single collected consciousness And they're quite fun because every time you see a cremling, you can wonder if it's actually a part of a Dysian Aimian! For a nice collection of potential sightings, see @ccstat's list here. We will see more of them, and they will feature in the final Cosmere books, the space-age Mistborn!

If there's atium, no contest If not, probably still mistborn anyway And even without those WoBs, mistborn coz of sheer versatility. I'm assuming basically unlimited access to stormlight/metals. If limited, for sure mistborn coz you can take metals with you and get more far more easily that stormlight. Full shardbearer is inconsequential compared to either

Cheers @Calderis. On the issue of spiritual aspect changing I'm thinking of the Returned appearing as perfect representations of the gods they're supposed to be particularly, though that could be a Cognitive Shadow thing. But I'm not committed to that without thinking of more examples. I need to look into this issue more, I feel like it should be clearer

Thanks PR

Do you though? Given I'm over 600 and I almost exclusively post in Cosmere boards, there's a good argument I post way too much

You could certainly be right Pagerunner, I have the distinct weakness here that I only have e-books, so actually all I know about blurbs and endsheets is from what's described online, or shown as separate photos - without being able to compare easily, I'd certainly agree that if the two are in similar style that makes Alethi/Jah keved more likely. (I really want a physical copy now :'( )

He has a non-invested sword with personal value (and not to nit-pick, but he doesn't currently have the flute, that was last with Sadeas...)

But...who will work on this site to mould it to my whims? It's a beautiful, fascinating place Chaos, enjoy

Unfortunately, it was in the grubby hands of Sadeas. As to where it is now though, I hope we find out. Hoid is pissed and wants it back.

Though I did miss the interesting bit of your post, @Cloak - the question of who may have done it! Personally I think one of Taravangian's agents. But it would be very interesting if it was an organization like the Ghostbloods.

Very astute, I was embarrassed I failed to see that on my first read. The answer is we don't know who swapped it, except that it wasn't Hoid and that none of the main characters know who has it. Here are some WoBs, the most important ones at the bottom. Edit - Stormlight Archive spoilers, just in case...

Hmm this is interesting. I'd assumed because of TLR ageing issues that it depended fundamentally on your spiritual self and that cognitively there is only so much you can fool your spiritual self with. So with Lopen his spiritual self remained as it was pre-arm-loss because his cognitive aspect lined up with that, but with Kaladin the glyph stayed because, cognitively, he absorbed that feature into his spiritual aspect. But that in the case of someone born without an arm, or simply with the placebo effect for anything, you could only cognitively change your spiritual aspect to a reasonable level. For example you can't just believe your immortal and therefore be immortal. Here's a lengthy WoB making me rethink that, but not completely change my mind. So clearly age is a different thing. It's harder to fool your spiritual aspect with age because of the other connections it has to other things, which provide a sorry of reference point for your spiritual age. But, "(Note that over time, a person's perception of themselves shapes their cognitive aspect as well, and the cognitive aspect can interfere with the spiritual aspect trying to make the physical aspect repair itself.) Healing in the cosmere often works by aligning your physical self with your spiritual self--making the physical regrow. More powerful forms of investiture can repair the soul as well". This makes it sound like you can't simply heal yourself with to your cognitive self, healing is based on your spiritual self filtered by your cognitive self, with your cognitive aspect not creating healing where your spiritual self doesn't demand it, instead limiting the healing your spiritual self is trying to do. To give an example, if you have no arm, never had an arm and your spiritual self has no arm, your cognitive self would not be enough to grown an arm. If you have a glyph on your head, your spiritual self has no glyph but your cognitive self does, your spiritual self would want to heal to have no glyph but your cognitive self would block that healing. Your cognitive self, in other words, will not cause a healing that your spiritual self doesn't match, it can only prevent a healing your spiritual self is trying to do. The big question is then how much your cognitive self changes your spiritual self. It can't do it with age, that's clear. It probably can do it with things like appearance, as demonstrated by Returned. Can it do it with an arm? That's the threshold question i have no answer to. I'm very surprised this doesn't seem to be a settled question, even with it being on the Questions for Brandon board in 2014. Unless someone can point me to a WoB that does answer it? It's basic realmatics and I feel we should know this and if we do, i feel i should too

Here goes J Emperor’s Soul – won’t spoil anything, don’t need to know anything and it’s a thing of beauty Hope of Elantris – big spoilers for Elantris, but it doesn’t mean you need to remember it well to get the story, just don’t read it if you want to go back to Elantris for a ‘fresh’ re-read Eleventh metal – it’s slightly pre-Mistborn so you’re fine either way (though if someone had never read mistborn I’d recommend doing it first coz it would destroy some of the slow-release answers from the first joyous read) Allomancer Jak – it’s set in the Wax and Wayne area so I wouldn’t read it before Mistborn, and it could have minor spoilers I guess for the Wax and Wayne series, but it won’t hurt if you’re simply not that fresh on those books Mistborn Secret History – huge Mistborn spoilers of course, spoilers for a range of other things (mainly systems rather than plot), and you’d miss almost all of the wonderful reveals if you’re not very Cosmere-aware – I only recommend this to people who have read every Cosmere book and are pretty into the world White Sand – standalone, can read any time (not as good as the prose in my mind, I would recommend reading the prose first if you have the time, but not necessary) Shadows – no spoilers, no knowledge necessary and you’ve read anyway Sixth of the Dusk – set a few hundred years after the recent books, no spoilers (well, not really), no knowledge needed (though you get more from it if you are Cosmere-aware) and just a wonderful story. This and Emperor’s Soul I hard recommend to everyone Edgedancer – now this is the big question. I believe Peter or Brandon recommended it as a first book for new readers. I would not recommend that in a million years (and I believe that’s the first time I’ve ever disagreed with him), to me it has big spoilers for Stormlight Archive, mainly in how the magic systems work, but also plot points, and while it’s entertaining with no former knowledge you’d certainly miss a lot of the point of some of the big plot events. If you’re just a little hazy on Words of Radiance, it should be fine to read though, you’ll still get the point and you won’t spoil a re-read of Stormlight books. In the situation you described, I’d read it. So as long as you’ve read all the Mistborn books (era 1 and 2), and you can basically remember major plot lines in Stormlight and Elantris, read it all without fear J

Hmm at least I've upgraded secret societies now. And let's face it, the name is fracking storming chulling cool. Even if there's a bit of pressure to fit in...

I've never thought that the scars are a reason it should be Kelsier's original body simply because investiture will restore the Physical body to match the spiritual self, and if Kelsier has a new body I think it would get the scars anyway, because they're such an integral aspect of him. But I still agree that his original body is the most likely option.