Extesian

I've done a full search for superstition and the best I can think of is that Voidbringers were regarded as superstition, perhaps she had an idea all the way back then that they existed. But that's highly tenuous and I don't think the timing or context fits. Glyphwards are superstitious but she knows that. So I suspect it's simply something in get past experience that we haven't heard yet. This isn't a very helpful post but there's certainly nothing searchable in the books to give a clue. You do have me interested though.

I wonder what would happen if Lift ate an awakened baked good.

I hope this isn't too obscure

Delivered right to your Dor

Hmm I'll have to agree to disagree on this, not that I'm right, but that it's just a question of semantics. A ferring has one set of specific 'channels' to use Preservation's investiture in a specific way. The more they use it, the wider that channel gets. I believe hemalurgy, in grafting on a piece of sDNA, is simply adding an additional channel that investiture can flow through, with a different end effect (or 'nozzle' as Brandon has described it), a channel which is of normal width. Using either channel (either metal) will expand that channel, but adding another channel won't expand the first one. My realmatics could be wrong but I do believe it's beyond semantics. Sorry I should've clarified the compounding situation. Compounding will clearly cause savantism but that's because compounding is not end-neutral. Feruchemy is, but compounding takes a feruchemical attribute (nozzle) and powers it with end-positive system. I was only saying, for the reason you said, that I dont' believe you can have a ferring savant because you can't flush through enough investiture to meaningfully widen the channels as you have to take time storing it yourself. You can have large investiture transfer for a tiny amount of time, or small for a large amount, but I believe a savant needs both. You are right about Breath being something you can get from someone else, which changes the equation. But my problem is this. With alomancy, say, you're actually expending all that investiture and returning it to the system. It's kinetic investiture (I believe - I've never been great on that terminology). But with Breath, even if you have 50,000 Breaths, and you make 50,000 lifeless, you're not actually constantly channelling that investiture. You're channeling it once, to make the awakened object, then the investiture is in that object, bringing it to life. There is no constant drawdown of investiture that's constantly flowing through you, expanding your investiture channels. You give the command, send out the Breath, and that's it. You then claim it back, and that's it. So unless you're literally constantly creating awakened objects and reclaiming your Breath, again and again, with the way I picture the realmatics of this, it won't be expanding your investiture channels in the same way alomancy or surgebinding is. So I could be convinced that it's possible to have savants in a completely end-neutral system, but they're the reasons I don't believe even someone chock full of Breaths becomes a savant. Very effective at the cognitive side of giving Commands, but not in the sense of investiture forcing its way through your spirit-web and changing it. Edit - to add a couple of things. Your analysis of the heightenings is good. You may have a point, I've seen the savantism thing as one of kinetic investiture solely, that innate investiture doesn't determine it. Even with my Elantris theory this was the case, that innate investiture gives you the channels but you need huge kinetic investiture to widen them. But the heightenings are an interesting matter and I dont' have a counter-argument for that. I'll have to think on it, it's a good point. Also, I have an additional argument for why Breath requires cracks. A Nalthian with Breath is more invested than a normal Cosmere human. A Nalthian that has had their Breath taken away, a Drab, is less invested than a normal Cosmere human. So it makes sense to me that Endowment changed people to be slightly less than human, that is the crack, and the Breath they're given at conception fills that. I have a way to determine that for sure though. Simply ask if a normal Cosmere human, with no innate investiture, is given a Breath, and then has that Breath taken away - would they then be a Drab? If not, then it must be that giving acquiring Breath neither requires nor creates a crack in the spirit web, and you're right that the WoB is wrong. If they would become a Drab, then clearly the act of a Breath imprinting on you creates that needed crack. There may be a flaw in that I haven't thought of, but it's an idea.

Firstly i agree with the idea of a savant spectrum. I don't believe there's a threshold for savantism where before that you're normal and after you're broken. It's a process. Secondly, perhaps I've missed something obvious, but I think there's one very important difference with Breath and it has nothing to do with the cracks in your spiritweb which this WoB indicates are universally necessary for magic systems. It's the fact Breath is end-neutral. I don't believe you can become a savant of an end-neutral system. Savantism, in my mind, is continuing use of investiture widening your investiture channels to let more investiture through and your spirit web consequently changes. But surely that is an effect of an end-positive system where you're drawing investiture externally. Breath, like feruchemy, uses your own internal investiture. So i see no reason however much you use it, that it would widen those channels. Thirdly I don't believe hemalurgy makes you a savant. It staples on a piece of sDNA to your own sDNA. It doesn't widen the channels, it oopens up new ones.

These are good points about the difference between ancient fabrials and modern. I've been troubled for a while about that and it firms up (thoughnowhere near decisively) two ideas in my mind. One - ancient fabrials, as a 'different' magic system, are of Adonalsium, and Akinah is related to Adonalsium, as are the Aimians. Two - ancient fabrials are purely of Cultivation. I favor the first in terms of the Aimiajs and the location. The second in terms of magic systems. But I may have missed something fundamental about either option.

Oh how embarrassing I didn't realize they were separate threads, I've posted on both thinking it was the same conversation. Given all that yeah maybe the most likely is that they were the same time but both old and Taravangian was wrong (and Brandon never corrected a false assumption they were both when Gavilar went to the Shattered Plains).

So @Argent, @Yata, I agree it would be weird if the Thrill was recent but how do you reconcile the WoB saying it started about the same time as the Death Rattles? Is Taravangian wrong and the Death Rattles are much older? Or is the WoB wrong? I actually think either answer is possible but for the Thrill to be old, it must be one of those two options, mustn't it? I definitely agree that the Rattles could be older and just slipped under the radar, as i think you were implying @Fulminato. And yeah either way another Unmade could have been active earlier, i did acknowledge that. I just pictured the Unmade becoming active around the same time everything was 'kicking off' but I agree that it would be strange for the Thrill to be recent yet so accepted. I'm just trying to reconcile that WoB.

This 'un though it doesn't add causing the geodes.

Then my job here is complete

I'm sorry to hear that Yata Will it cheer you up if I call you Lunu'anaki?

You're a mod now, your job is to serve your adoring public

Hm, what reading did Jasnah prescribe for Shallan for her biology classes? The Book of Endless.......Phages I'm so, so sorry.

Since I'm on an Always Sunny theme right now, and November is so far away... (And yes, this was clearly done by me on my phone at work. Or by a drunk adolescent. Could be either)

Yeah that's a fair argument. I still feel it would be a spiritwebby problem but I don't have much canon material to base that on, more just my own ideas about how investiture works in the Realms. But I like the linkage anyway with larkins. Though one thing we should remember is there may be no cure whatsoever there. The soulcaster is going there because it used to be where Aimians sold soulcasters (the fabrials). We have no idea if they had a cure, just that if anyone would it would be the people who originally made them.

Nice work @jofwu there are one or two there I didn't know about! And @I Am Stick could you please spoiler that transcript? Only because it's so long and on a thread like this it's good to be able to scroll through things easily

So the soulcaster in question is a savant. She's channelled investiture through her spirit web so much, very specific use of investiture, that it's changed her soul. In the Cosmere, your physical body tries to match your idealised soul (your spirit web). Investiture will do this, and you see it with things like Lopen growing his arm back, this is the way most Cosmere healing works - investiture flowing through you will try to make your physical body match your soul. In the case of a soulcaster who has been transforming things into smoke for so many years, I'm assuming this basically transforms part of her spirit web, almost literally, into smoke. Well, somewhere between metaphorically and literally. Because she keeps using investiture, that investiture is then trying to change her body to match her soul. Hence she's almost transforming into smoke. That's a very simplistic explanation of Cosmere healing mechanics, sorry (and someone will correct me if I've lazily made a mistake) - and most importantly Brandon has said he's revising how savantism works so I dont' want to over-commit. But that's my understanding. Here's some WoBs for your enjoyment.

The reading from an Oathbringer interlude involving a soulcaster is here. Edit - I'm not sure if I should have spoilered this whole thing, I'm assuming not as this is a spoiler-board - but as I saw the description come up on the feed, I'm basically putting in extra spaces here so no one is inadvertently spoiled. It involves a soulcaster on a ship heading to Aimia. The captain wants to find gemhearts, as greatshells go here to die. The soulcaster wants to find the secret to curing her fatal transformation from too much soulcasting. The island on which both things can be found is an Aimian island, ringed by soulcast pillars. The island is called Akinah. For those who don't remember the name, it is in chapter 33 of Way of Kings, when Kabsal is demonstrating cymatics to Shallan. Cymatics are the pattern physical material makes when reacting to sound wavelengths and Kabsal demonstrates that the great Rosharan cities match cymatic patterns. We see the same with the Shattered Plains. One of the cities Kabsal mentions is called Akinah. We did not know where it was located until now. Here is a picture of the city (from Coppermind, drawn by Isaac). We know from the interlude that Akinah was the place mainlanders used to obtain soulcasters. We also know the Aimians are guarding it extremely closely. So, the interlude gives us the location of a significant lost city, tells us it was an Aimian city and fundamental enough to be one of the cities built around a cymatic pattern. It is also significant enough for the Aimians to regard its secrets, if revealed, as bringing the end of worlds. We also know, from Hoid's story to Kaladin of Wandersail, that the captain in that story wanted to find the origin of Voidbringers, and sailed basically in that direction. And another name for Akinah, in the interlude, is "the Void’s Playground". I'm opening up to any speculation on its significance. But I'd start with this. Greatshells go to die there, and leave their gemhearts. Aimians used to create soulcasters there. Aimians will be a major player in the Cosmere, featuring in the final space-Mistborn books that wrap up the Cosmere arc. I've thought about this a lot, and I can't think of what its special significance is. I don't believe it's Cultivation's perpendicularity, that's supposed to be in the Horneater Peaks. It could be Honor's perpendicularity, but we know that moves. It cooould be Odium's perpendicularity, and Aimians are guarding it, but that wouldn't make sense with people formerly coming there to get soulcasters. What we have to figure out is why it used to be ok for men to know its secrets, but it's not now. The best idea I have is that it's Origin. But I have little to back that up. I'm also wondering if it could be basically the place that Adonalsium originally created or invested in Roshar (as I believe cymatics represent the way in which Adonalsium created Roshar - my own little head-theory). But basically, I'm hoping together we can come up with some ideas. I have no doubt whatsoever it's one of the most significant places in Roshar. And either way, at least we have knowledge now of Akinah's location.

I vote for Mestiv

I quite like this idea @Blightsong. Larkins drain investiture like Nightblood and leechers. I'm actually surprised at the aluminum cleansing WoB though because aluminum blocksinvestiture, it doesn't eat it. My problem is also with what happens to someone who has used investiture too much having that cleansed from them. I recently posted a theory on Elantrians about this, basically that once the channels in your spiritweb are widened by investiture, as happens with a savant or someone who accesses Shard power directly (eg through the mists) out is only investiture flow keeping that person's body matching their soul. Withdraw that investiture and their body withers. I think soulcasting savants only have their melting bodies kept connected to their souls through investiture. Drain that with a larkin, without shoring up those channels with something else, and I think at best they become like an Elantrian during the Shaod, at worse I think their physical self detaches from the Spiritual self and they die (or become a cognitive shadow).

I don't understand so the ones already posted are from a previous version of this thread, as examples, and we're voting on new people? Or are we voting on the ones you've put there already? Which wouldn't make sense to me?

@The Flash, @Orlion On a Cob, Australia isn't bad perfectly safe to live in, just kinda boring. That's why I moved to Prague for two years and intend to leave Australia again after some time back here. A cool place, just soooo isolated. But yes platypus is probably the greatest animal to ever live and worth the hype

@TheHunter got confirmation the nurse is Terris at the ad astra event, after it was basically confirmed in Poland. But no there's no confirmation that is Aslydin, that's an assumption i assume because of the Terris connection. I doubt it myself because of the timing.

Here's an unhelpful-helpful non-answer-answer