cometaryorbit

I don't think Raboniel is using "bound" in the same sense - this is Fused philosophy that Cultivation made the Surges and Honor bound them into natural law ... thus Adhesion isn't a real Surge because it's all Honor no Cultivation. Since Adhesion definitely is a Surge, I don't think Raboniel is reliable here -- this is Odium influenced downplaying of Honor's importance. (Raboniel also goes on in the same conversation about how Radiants *totally aren't really more powerful than the Fused* even though they get two powers plus resonance and the Fused only get one. Suuuuure Raboniel, whatever you say....)

Yeah. Given what the Fused say about Adhesion not being a real Surge, the correlation may be more directly to the nine non-Adhesion Surges / nine brands of Fused, thus why it's not quite one-to-one with the Radiant Orders. A few of them seem directly connected, like Sja-anat to Transformation and Moelach to Renarin's version of Illumination. Others are much more vague ... Chemoarish being called "the Dustmother" could suggest a connection to Division or Abrasion, the Dustbringer Surges. Nergaoul's Thrill might be a more Cognitive/Spiritual application of Division, like Dalinar's Connection stuff with Adhesion. Re-shephir's Midnight Essence might be warped Progression. I am not sure what Surge Ashertmarn's removed inhibitions effect would connect to. Cognitive/Spiritual Cohesion, "softening" the soul? But that one's a real stretch. I guess it could fit as the conceptual opposite to Stonewards though since they are all about endurance. Yelig-nar can grant all Surges, so that connection is unclear, but the name "Blightwind" might link him to Windrunners/Heavenly Ones/Gravitation -though IIRC it was suggested before that his amethyst appearance might link him to Willshapers. Hmm. I wonder if all of them warp the soul / spiritual aspect in some way which can let stuff from the Spiritual Realm get in? The Thrill from Nergaoul, powers from Yelig-nar, etc.? 'Holes in the soul' vaguely analogous to (Mistborn) There is a WoB that Odium's spren have holes like that... I wonder if that means spren corrupted/enlightened by Sja-anat, or actual Splinters of Odium? Are, say, stormform or envoyform spren corrupted/enlightened "regular" spren or Splinters of Odium?

Rosharan, yeah. Selish not so sure - there is a WoB that it would take two Hemalurgic spikes to steal AonDor, one for the actual power and one for Connection.

Also, the spiritual realm is kind of timeless, so there might be kind of "memories" of the old pre-broken version of Taln (or Maya) persisting in the spiritual that they can connect to. Either that or Herald insanity and Deadeye "death" are at least partly caused by a Realmatic blockage like

I don't think these things are Surgebinding (as a specific magic system) but that doesn't make them unrelated to the Surges (as broader concepts underlying Rosharan System magic). Greatshells and skyeels' weight lightening is almost certainly linked to Gravitation, and Regal powers may be tied to Surges too - the translation could be linked to Bondsmiths' Adhesion, lightning could be Division, the illusion and future sight powers hinted at in the WoR epigraphs could be Illumination linked.

Yep, I think the reason that was answered with "Close, but no" is that "using Stormlight" is not part of the definition of Voidbinding. I'd think you can power it with Lifelight or Voidlight just like Surgebinding can be. The Rosharan Investiture or systems seem to be flexible that way. I'd expect Voidbinding to be a system with ten powers, one relating to the theme of each Surge, but distinct from the ten classic Herald/KR Surgebinding powers. The Surges are rather broad concepts - "Pressure and Vacuum" could potentially do a lot more than we see Windrunners do, "Light, Sound, and Various Waveforms" doesn't have to be limited to illusions, etc.

Generally diseases crossing worlds is much less of an issue in the cosmere than Earth history would suggest, as major Shardworlds' people have enough Investiture that disease is rarer & less serious. Even the Purelake issue was very mild, notable mostly because Roshar doesn't usually have much infectious disease at all.

I have no idea. I'd tend to think not as you don't actively "use" Hemalurgy in any way equivalent to burning/tapping, but who knows... maybe if you hold a primer cube next to a koloss or a kandra with the Blessing of Potency while it's exercising (actively using its enhanced strength), it would charge up with Hemalurgic strength? I was more thinking something like a precise, technologically-assisted version of hemalurgy that allows you to remove only the power-granting bit of spiritweb without piercing the heart (thus not killing the original power donor) and possibly then healing up the power donor with a medallion granting f-Gold. Although, on further thought, what about this? - Start with one natural power (say f-Brass) - Use hemalurgic spikes (the Excisors) to gain f-Nicrosil, a-Nicrosil, and f-Aluminum - Store your natural f-Brass power in a Nicrosilmind, then burn it to Compound, so you now have multiple times normal Investiture in f-Brass; store that in a new Nicrosilmind - Blank your Identity with f-Aluminum then tap the now over-charged f-Brass Investiture, then store it in multiple Identity-blank Nicrosilminds, each containing the equivalent Investiture of one normal Brass Ferring - Pass the spikes to the next person with a different power... That way it took 3 deaths* to get the process started, but not new deaths per medallion, explaining the "Not as many as you think" WoB. *maybe, perhaps there is another way to "fake" a Hemalurgic charge - there wouldn't have been Feruchemists available, I wouldn't think.

Well, the Bands are metalminds so if he really made them he must have had at least f-Nicrosil to make the initial unsealed metalmind... I don't think it's guaranteed he had all Feruchemical powers. And how he got any is a mystery, though spikes must have been involved somehow. He's only depicted with one spike, so it's not clear how he could get more powers - I don't think there were any Full Feruchemist bodies available to take over (and anyway I favor the "Kelsier's new body is a mistwraith/kandra with Kelsier's soul spiked in instead of a Kandra Blessing, and using Kelsier's original skeleton" theory). I guess he could have had small spikes... but where would he get the Feruchemist powers from? I am not sure there were any Feruchemists around immediately after Sazed became Harmony, though Ferrings were born later since the genes remained.

That's totally possible too. But... If the Shards are meant to be set up like an Allomantic table in quadrants, there should be only 4 Shards per Dawnshard. But under that interpretation I see 5 to 7 Shards that should fall under that... Cultivation, Ruin, Invention, Odium, Endowment, & likely Ambition and Whimsy. So I think it works better with one Dawnshard for transformational or creative change (Cultivation, Invention, Ambition, Whimsy) and one for unbinding/dividing things (Endowment, Odium, Ruin) However this probably deserves its own theory thread.

Specifically for world hopping, yeah, f-duralumin is a really good choice. I could however also argue f-gold since it is a really powerful ability and a metal that is found in native form so is likely to be known to many societies, even ones that don't have the technology to smelt iron or make alloys like bronze.

Kelsier post return to life probably is a Feruchemist, assuming he really made the Bands of Mourning. And he definitely used Hemalurgy for that. TLRs bracers were Hemalurgic spikes per WoB, but I don't know if they were really power granting (TLR had all the powers already... but maybe double Soothing or Pushing?) or just a case of 'pierced by Invested metal has Hemalurgy type effects'.

It would make sense as a layer of misdirection as the existence of Hemalurgy seems rather secret but everyone knows Allomancy is hereditary. So people who know they exist as a criminal organization but don't know about Hemalurgy see a plausible motive for their kidnappings. Edit: also, Telsin was posing as a prisoner of the Set, not a member. So almost certainly lying. (The non Allomancers kidnapped don't have to have secret powers, they could be kidnapping extra people to make the cover story plausible.) I don't think they care about angering noble houses, they expect to rule soon. And that's actually part of the issue...the Set's plans as we see them in BoM seem too short time scale for Allomancers born post AoL to grow up. They're looking for war in the next few years not 20+ years. So I really see only two possibilities: it was a misdirection all along, or the Set changed plans/vastly accelerated their timeline between AoL and BoM.

IIRC, Breath is easier to move than other Investiture due to Endowment's Intent - it is given "without strings" so doesn't come with so much Connection- but Vasher needed to do something special since he isn't just an Awakener, he's a Cognitive Shadow.

I am not convinced Connection to a Shard gives you magic systems by itself. (Mistborn:Secret History / Era 2) Magic on Nalthis is also based on having Endowment associated Innate Investiture (Breaths). Surgebinding seems more Connection based, but to a spren, not the Shard itself.

I don't think that is contradictory. The event that destroyed Ashyn involved "manipulation of Surges", but not necessarily "Surgebinding" in the sense of the Herald/Honorblade system as we know it. This might just be a matter of terminology... but it might be critical. Feruchemy and Allomancy are different systems that use the same sixteen metals. Ashyn magic and Rosharan Surgebinding might be different systems that use the same ten Surges. A key question here is ... are the Fused just hacking the existing system & there are no Adhesion Fused just because Odium doesn't want to make any, or are the Fused using a 9-based one-power-at-a-time Braize native variant form of Surgebinding? I'm thinking the former since WoB says Khriss would consider it Surgebinding, and I'd think being a Braize native 9-based unpaired magic would be enough to count as a distinct system.

I am not convinced that being a Mistborn is due to stronger Connection to Preservation - Mistborn Secret History pretty strongly implies that Kelsier is not all that Connected to Preservation. I think being an Allomancer is instead a matter of having more Innate Investiture from Preservation than most people. Most have it from heredity ("Spiritual DNA") but Mist-snapping can add Investiture and thus Snap people who couldn't Snap normally (the "sliding scale of Allomantic potential" from the HoA annotations). And lerasium directly gives you more Preservation, like solid mist.

That last WoB is what made me wonder if it's some technological derived form of Hemalurgy that's not necessarily fatal.

Maybe nicrosil would work like that, not sure. Using it as a spike to *steal* in a transferable way should still require precise placement - but maybe using hemalurgy purely destructively is less demanding?

I don't think getting all the powers in one spike is possible; per the HoA epigraphs Ruin couldn't do it and that's why few Inquisitors had Duralumin. If Ruin didn't know how it's probably not possible with Hemalurgy. Maybe with Lerasium, which Ruin didn't have, but there's a WoB that seems to say that "steals all abilities" means human senses/strength/emotional strength/mental fortitude type things, not Allomantic/Feruchemical powers (or other Invested Arts). So I doubt even that. I'd imagine Marsh already has double Gold, Ruin was setting him up as a champion / super warrior / assassin, and we know he has over 20 spikes... there are a bunch that would be lower priority than super healing, especially given things like bendalloy, chromium, and nicrosil weren't available in Era 1. He could get the eight generally known Era 1 metals plus atium with eight spikes (since he started as a Seeker). Doubling bronze and the primary Allomantic combat metals, pewter, steel, iron... he's now at 12. Gold Feruchemy for healing... 13. He has an a-duralumin spike per epigraphs... 14. Probably electrum to protect him from enemy atium if he was out... 15. At that point you're out of combat useful allomantic powers, since bendalloy and chromium weren't available in Era 1. Throw in the best combat Feruchemy: pewter, steel, and probably iron to help with Pushes/Pulls ... 18. Give him Atium Feruchemy and Gold Allomancy for Compounding healing and youth for immortality, and that's 20. We know he has more than that, but I'm not sure what else would have been useful for Ruin or TLR to give him, given Era 1 available metals. Bronze Feruchemy for wakefulness, useful for being a relentless tracker, I guess? Brass Feruchemy for surviving extreme temperatures? *though a-Copper is probably kind of useless for an Inquisitor, everyone knows they are Allomancers and they aren't exactly subtle. I wonder if they even had it.

Also, Rhythm of War dug much more into cosmere aware stuff (4 new Shard names!) and magic mechanics (all the Navani and Raboniel science part) than previously. I think the books going forward may be freer with this sort of info, as we're moving into an era of the Cosmere where these things will be more relevant. Stormlight 5 will be the end of the cosmere "first arc", IIRC.

Rosharans use Surgebinding more broadly than cosmere aware scholars like Khriss, or Brandon speaking in authorial/out-of-world voice, do. I don't think Ashyn magic is Surgebinding in the latter sense (though Fused Surgebinding *is*, per WoB). When I have more time I'll look for the WoBs on that.

I agree Nightblood was probably based on dead-Spren Shardblades, though nine Honorblades *have* been continuously present on Roshar since Aharietiam. Dawnshard creation of Nightblood makes a lot of sense though. It seems way more powerful than it should be (1000 Breaths is not *that* much, only 4th Heightening equivalent... less Investiture than one Divine Breath which is 5th Heightening equivalent). Sure, much of that is probably due to what it's eaten since, but even at the beginning it was apparently super scary. Destroy as a Dawnshard makes a lot of sense... or possibly Divide or Unmake, breaking things down to fundamentals. Perhaps the opposite of the Dawnshard 'known to bind all creatures voidish or mortal' from the WoR epigraph... building up/binding together vs breaking down/separating.

I think this is a different but related magic system, likely still based on the Surges to some degree ... sort of like how the Metallic Arts are three different systems but share metals and some common powers. Possibly the same disease magic for Ashyn that's been mentioned in WoBs before (flying cities could be Gravitation based).

Probably Allomancy, though that may just be because I read Mistborn first. The vectors and quasi-flight of Pushing and Pulling and the time weirdness of atium/gold/malatium/electrum/bendalloy/cadmium especially. I really wish gold and electrum were more explored; we saw lots of atium in Era 1 and bendalloy/cadmium with Wayne and Marasi in Era 2, but not much of those two. Same for atium alloys... at least we got a bit more malatium in Secret History... I really like Sand Mastery conceptually, the whole Investiture/light/water cycle thing with the lichen and the sand feels so biological/ecological... but we know so much less about it since it's graphic novel only.