cometaryorbit

Well I think every Vessel that's held a Shard for thousands of years is mentally inhuman in that sense, warped by Intent to be as much a force as a person.

This whole question is possibly more confused by the WoB that being pierced with Invested metal can have weird effects in general. So maybe being pierced by Invested metalminds let Ruin influence TLR, even if they weren't normal Hemalurgy. Especially since they were atium metalminds, Ruin's metal...* But the "Hemalurgy to pull off his most dramatic effects" WoB does suggest real power-granting spikes. Boosted Soothing or Steelpushing do seem kind of plausible, as those are the powers he shows really extreme levels of. *Although, technically, Ruin could touch some people's minds even without Hemalurgy- he induced Zane to spike himself. If TLR was open/unstable enough...

That might indeed be the key point- they left the dead Blades behind (from the Feverstone Keep vision) and so didn't stay in contact with or use them to rebuild the bond.

Fused aren't human, though, they use (Stormlight Archive) Its very likely a similar overall cosmere mechanic, but I don't think they can be Fused as we know them from the Stormlight books so far.

Probably they were horribly outmatched individually (the "ordinary" Fused, excluding thunderclasts and whatever other similar things there are we haven't seen yet) -- but endlessly reborn. The stormfather says there was a time before the Fused "learned to command the Surges". So then how did they fight the Heralds at all? Sure, they're reborn, but why wasn't it just whack-a-mole? That would have been a much greater imbalance. Sure, there are only 10 Heralds and some power sets aren't that combative (though near-infinite Stormlight plus a Shardblade is already pretty awesome) ... but given what we see Szeth do in Way of Kings, how many non-magical soldiers would it take to fight Jezrien, with the same abilities plus near infinite Stormlight (and maybe also the super speed/reflexes we see from Taln)? EDIT: re: containing all the Singers so you know where all the Fused can show up so they can be easily whack-a-moled when reborn- Roshar is big, and probably no one really had the infrastructure to enforce something like that. Maybe it was tried at some point, but after later Desolations civilization was too wrecked to organize patrolling a long border, etc.

I dont think it's in the interest of anyone who knows the truth to make it public. So it probably won't become publicly known for a pardon to be an issue.

There are presumably other ways to survive in the Cognitive than the water-condensing device we see in Oathbringer: we've seen Hoid worldhop without carrying one. We have no idea what Investiture the Ashynites had access to or what help they might have had during the transit. Oh they definitely did at one point... just not sure if we can narrow down when it was lost. - Upon leaving Ashyn (Ashynite humans had it, but not those who actually departed, e.g. no one in that population had the right disease)? - During the transfer (maybe as part of the bargain that gave them Shinovar, maybe as a side-effect e.g. disease organisms didn't make it)? Rosharan humans didn't seem to have it to use during the Desolations, so it must have been lost early. The Herald's bodies being re-made is a very good point, and could explain their individual loss of it. But what about the other humans? Maybe there's a Connection thing so those born on Roshar couldn't use that magic? If Ashynite humans had mid-late 19th century European tech/infrastructure, sure, that analogy would work. (Though Australia had disease involved too.) Given Brandon's comments about Taldain being originally the most advanced tech planet, though, I'm pretty sure no one in the cosmere was anywhere *near* that advanced that early.

I guess part of the question is whether massively Invested metal will have some Realmatic effect in itself separate from what that Investiture is doing. Being pierced by Invested metal can apparently do Hemalurgy-*ish* things even if it's not actual Hemalurgy. So would being stabbed by a 100% full ironmind sword do some Realmatic damage beyond the Physical wound? Metalmind full-ness is kind of weird in itself when god metals get involved. If a god metal is 100% Invested, what about a metalmind of that metal? Were TLR's atiumminds more than 100%? And does the slight alloying/impurity of Era 1 Atium matter here?

The power (Investiture) used in Allomancy comes from Preservation, sure, and Feruchemy is self-powered. But the Feruchemy "Spiritual gene" had to come from somewhere. And the Terris were originally worshipers of Preservation. And Feruchemy was the only one of the Metallic Arts known before the Preservation/Ruin conflict "came to a head", ie while Preservation was still fully alive/sane. I think that suggests Preservation as the source, otherwise why would the one population worshiping him be the one with magical powers?

A Sel connection (and "trellium" being a Skaze "god metal") used to be my leading theory, especially after Secret History showed a Dor conduit to Scadrial's Cognitive. But post White Sand graphic novel with Trell being a human name and "mastrell" and "lesstrell" being titles on Taldain, and the Dayside/Nightside vs Trell/Nalt day/night opposition, at least some Taldain connection seems strongly implied. - Wait, how do we know that? I had kind of gotten the impression that at least the overt off-world magic e.g. "trellium" was very new at the time of the Era 2 books. I didn't think we had any real evidence of the age of the Set itself as an organization.

Not sure if it's the same. That Preservation is still part of the Shard, just "committed" in a way it can't directly be used for something else. That was a problem for a Preservation vs Ruin battle when they were different people, but I don't know if it would make Preservation's influence on Sazed weaker than Ruin's.

Hmm, possible, I guess - depending on what that original method was. I was assuming direct gift from Preservation, so wouldn't have been available to Kelsier post-giving the Shard to Vin, but if it's something more analogous to becoming Mistborn via lerasium, totally possible.

In the cosmere, interplanetary travel doesn't necessarily require either technology or any personally-usable Investiture, if you can find a Perpendicularity. We know that there are trade caravans through Shadesmar, etc. So their ability to move people and livestock to Roshar doesn't prove any baseline level of ability. They might have used an Ashyn Transportation Surge magic, but anything like that doesn't seem to have made it to Roshar. The Heralds we see don't seem to have any otherworldly magic system- Ishar in RoW is using "Bondsmith unchained" stuff, not otherworldly magic, and Nale is a Skybreaker. So I see two possibilities: - they never had Ashynite magic; those who fled Ashyn weren't Investiture users there, and were trying to get away from a conflict between those who were; - they somehow lost it as part of the transfer to Roshar (if Ashyn magic was already disease based, perhaps the transferred population were all cured) But I see no reason to think they had Ashynite magic available to fight the Singers on Roshar. But the smallpox destroying/destabilizing Aztec society was critical to Spanish victory there. So it doesn't really work as a parallel, as that sort of thing doesn't really happen on high Investiture planets like Roshar (even if human diseases would affect singers). It also doesn't work because of scale. The Aztec Empire was basically limited to central-ish Mexico. A war for control of the Roshar supercontinent would be more comparable to the entire European colonization of the Americas, which took centuries and had backing from the European homelands. The closer RL example of something like this might be Carthage, a Phoenician colony which became independent due to the conquest of its original founders' homeland and then grew into an empire into its own right - but this process took centuries, and Carthage had time to develop as a trading center before the conquest of its homeland. It wasn't founded by refugees with no backing from the homeland.

The humans arrived as refugees, not conquerors - I don't see why we'd assume they had a high level of organization or development. And the advancement in the last 200 years is very much the exception- I'd say a first century Roman legion would do pretty well against anybody pre-gunpowder. Cortez at least supposedly only had like 500 men, but in reality, he lost the first time. When he returned and won he had far more men gathered from other Native American peoples opposed to the Aztec Empire, *and* - critically- smallpox had absolutely devastated the Aztecs.

I don't think we know enough. It's certainly suggested he was a Fullborn, but how could he get 16 Feruchemy powers from just one spike?

Yeah, I think Trell = Avatar of Autonomy is the leading hypothesis. (And Trell is a human name on Taldain, so possibly Taldain-native.) Though I used to think Trell might be one or more Skaze, since we see a Dor conduit to Scadrial in Secret History.

I agree; it seems to imply some kind of possession of the beggar's body. And kandra don't have red eyes. I doubt it's literally a Fused. But it's likely a similar cosmere mechanic, and likely also similar to Kelsier regaining a body.

It's not about motivations or goals, but capabilities. The implication is that the humans won the initial conflict, or at least didn't lose, but Odium gave the Fused the power to reincarnate so the war then became unwinnable for the humans. So the humans must have been fairly numerous, well organized, and had decent resources. The singers of that era seem to have had magical powers of their own... Also, in the Americas, disease was at least as decisive as technology. Singers aren't human and probably are not very vulnerable to human disease (which is less threatening on planets like Roshar anyway). Possibly; I don't think we know that the refugees from Ashyn were especially warlike. To me Oathbringer implies the humans arrived as refugees, not conquerors, and without a lot of resources; were given Shinovar as their own land; and later expanded beyond Shinovar and wars with the singers resulted.

Do we know that? Jezrien was a king beforehand, yes, but the fact that he escaped doesn't at all mean that he arrived with an organization set up to wage war. That wasn't the direction I was going. Clearly the humans were an actual threat to the singers, who were already well established on Roshar. Even if the survivors were largely warriors/soldiers by profession (and I don't think that's known at all*) they must have been both numerous, well organized, and supported by others able to feed and supply them. A continent scale war requires logistics, and they didn't have Soulcasters yet; it would have taken numerous farmers to support each soldier. Also, it's not clear what the motivation to expand would be until at least the "low hanging fruit" resources of Shinovar were claimed, and I think that would take a very long time for an area the size of Shinovar. This would be different, I guess, if the Ashynite exodus was a really huge population - high millions of tens of millions - I suppose... But even then I'd expect a generation at least to explore, exploit, and develop Shinovar. *Do we actually know that the Surge-based destruction of Ashyn was due to war specifically, as opposed to some kind of magical version of an industrial accident, or something analogous to (Mistborn Era 1) Huh. That could work. I was imagining it as a single fairly small population being the only ones who got a chance to escape from a basically immediate cataclysm, but I guess it could have been a long drawn out process.

Alethkar is basically a feudal society, not a rule of law one (though Jasnah has hopes to change that eventually). It is in Dalinar/Jasnah's best interest to keep it secret to avoid a blood feud with remaining Sadeas family members and/or rebellion by Sadeas troops.

That sounds plausible. Given his whole falsely-declared-Truthless background, "Woeful Truth(s)" seems to fit him pretty well.

Well, sure, but Telsin could just be playing on Wax's expectations. It could be a previously established misdirection, but doesn't have to be. Not necessarily (I am not sure that there are enough *low profile* allomantic criminals & miscreants), and also, a cover story might be needed anyway for criminals they work with (like the Vanishers) who aren't "in" enough to know about Hemalurgy. At the very end of BoM, sure. But that's a surprise to Suit, so the whole plan to build up to a war between the outer cities and Elendel can't be reliant on that change. There would have to have been a previous change in between books. Which is possible, admittedly.

The Singers definitely could do stuff related to the Surges (stoneshaping -> Cohesion, growing plants with Rhythms and Light -> Progression) but I am not sure that means they are "Surgebinding" in the sense of the magic system itself. This may be closer to Rosharan natural magic- chasmfiends are unnaturally lightened through a spren bond but they are not really Surgebinding per se. There is also a WoB that fabrials "are part of" the third magic system (alongside Surgebinding and Voidbinding), some of what the Singers do might be their version of the same basic system. I don't think we know enough to draw clear lines yet. It's far from obvious to me why Renarin using Illumination to see the future is a separate magic system, Voidbinding, but the really weird Fused versions of Transportation (husks) and Progression (carapace/body growth) are just Surgebinding. ...unless those are different because the Fused are really Cognitive Shadows so their relation to their bodies might be different?

I figured Towerlight was called that because it is the Sibling's Light, Honor + Cultivation, and the Sibling is manifested in the tower of Urithiru. I think it's just a name, not an Intent like the names of Shards are. So I am not sure that Honor + Odium is necessarily "War" as an Intent, either. It certainly *could* be, but it could be just a name referencing Honor and Odium being at war on Roshar (with the Desolations). I feel like War as an actual Intent would need Valor in there too... might actually fit better as Valor + Ruin. Honor's Intent is oaths and bonds, not so much courage and glory, imo.

Yeah. Nightblood destroys on all three Realms, but it's more 'turn stuff to black smoke' than super cutting. Just saying the super cutting effect is apparently not necessary to qualify as a Shardblade. (More oddly, Azure's Blade cuts stone neatly, doesn't vaporize it. So there may be a way to get something more like a Rosharan Blade's effect with Awakening.)