Ciridae

The most obvious reason for Eshonai being the traitor on the dust jacket is that she will have her own book in the first five like the other four mentioned on the blurb. But there are a number of ways traitor broken by ambition fits Eshonai. If she ends up fighting her own people alongside the humans, that's clearly a betrayal. I think this is the most likely reason she is called traitor on the blurb. But she also betrayed her people to Odium the moment she chose to test stormform. Like Calderis said, her ambition to map the world led to a war, but I dont think that broke her. It could have been the choice to accept leadership instead of chasing the horizon, but in WoR she seems to have accepted the choice as a necessity. I still think what broke her was Venli's ambition looking for new forms, that led to Eshonai losing even freedom of choice. Being trapped in your own head and ordering your former friends and family to be executed and not being able to do anything is pretty traumatic.

I didn't have time to read what everyone wrote, but here are some of my thoughts. I guess everyone must be freaking out about Dalinar remembering his wife at this point, I don't know whether it's him being healed or his curse shifting to Navani. This could end badly for his bond to the stormfather if he can't keep his marriage vow. Good that we got to see the Honorblade. I'm chomping at the bit for some Tension action though. Spren know about Identity and Connection? I like it, they should. Syl tricking the voidspren was fun to see too. You go. Finally some listener kids. Adorable. I really appreciated hearing the listeners' first thoughts on being enslaved. Kaladin can relate to them more than other humans, but they are right, it's not the same. The voidspren will be a problem, especially as soon as the next highstorm comes. I think that Khen, the female listener, will bond with the spren and become the first real voidbringer of the group. Poor Shallan. A lot of you were right to worry about her personas last week. It looks like we'll go deeper down the rabbit hole. The Ghostbloods are terrifying. When is Veil going to get an illusionary GB tattoo? I don't know what to make of the double murders. I'm torn between rogue Radiant and Unmade. But Shallan is getting to the bottom of it faster than any of the others. Radiant vs Radiant would be fun, but finally seeing one of the Unmade as an antagonist would be amazing too.

I guess it boils down to whether or not Adonalsium had a vessel, but I honestly doubt it. Brandon has said that a theme of the cosmere is what happens to mortals who have been given the power of gods, how that power influences them and how they chose to wield it. Adonalsium was that power, the story is about how it came to be in the hands of mortals. The shift in power should be from god to mortal, not from mortal to mortal. This is just personal preference, but I think the story of sentient investiture is more interesting. A mortal who gets all that power is going to be colored by their own history, their own perception, their own aspirations, their own set of morals. We see how this plays out in 16 different ways already. Adonalsium should be something more than just a bigger shard with balanced intents.

@Calderis We don't know enough to say for sure, but I think that Eshonai's thoughts make most sense in a scenario where a soulcaster is available. It may be that they only have a ready access to emeralds, and aren't capable of soulcasting anything else in significant amounts. It may be that they have a limited soulcaster, only capable of using emeralds. It may be that they are using it to soulcast other things, but we've not been made aware of it. @notsawerd We don't know the minimum size of a gemstone needed to capture a spren. I don't see them fighting the Alethi for gemhearts only to break them into bits to hold spren. And, more importantly, Eshonai's thoughts were directly connecting the new gemheart with a supply of food. I have one quick question, does the amount of stormlight a gem can hold grow exponentially to the gem's size? Or is it only that large gemstones are more valuable because they allow for larger amount of matter to be soulcast from one gem making it easier to transform big things?

In one chapter Eshonai is relieved to see that the listeners had won another gemheart and says something along the lines of that her people would continue to eat as a result. I'm sure they use stormlight near plants to encourage growth too, but unless they were soulcasting they would not need replacement gemhearts. Leaving the gems near plants should not crack them, like soulcasting would. Their declining population makes it unlikely that they need more gems because they were growing more crops, so I think this is pretty good evidence that they do have at least one soulcaster. Also, as a sidenote, I think having many small gems spread out among the crops makes for a better stormlight distribution compared to a gemheart. I think they use gemhearts only for soulcasting but grow crops with the help of smaller gems as well. I really like the question in the OP of what soulcasting savant listeners are like. It's something I haven't ever seen mentioned or discussed and I would very much like to know the answer.

@Calderis You're right and I'm glad its a cultural thing instead of Odium simply mind controlling all of them. I was scared they were all on auto pilot doing what Odium needed them to do. They're still probably doing it at the direction of some voidforms, but these first steps are probably the result of a desire for self-preservation, guided by strategically inclined, Odium-guided voidforms. Kaladin's listners just needed food. The Thaylen listeners ended up crippling the navy of one of the most powerful seafaring nations, probably suggested and coordinated by those under Odiuns influence, but now I think your average listener was just doing what they were told and trying to get away. I am a little more worried about the negotiations, that's clearly a step above raiding food stores for survival. It seems like a stalling strategy to muck the Azish down in paperwork while preparing for an assault. I'm excited to learn about the command structure. The voidforms seem like they get to say what goes, knowing exactly what to do like Eshonai did in stormform. But how do sapient undbonded (at least not trapped in a gemheart) spren like that yellow ribbon factor in?

I'm calling secret society tie in. Maybe later Radiant. But it seems clear that she's being set up for an important role later in the book, or in the series as a whole.

These have been my favorite chapters so far, and Pattern continues to be my favorite spren. I was hoping to see more of Veil, but Adolin and Shallan are adorable so I'm fine with waiting another week. Kaladin keeps the cliffhangers coming, I'm loving where that story is going. So it seems like this group of Listeners is being guided and watched over by a Voidspren, that's so fascinating. And I do think it's a voidspren, the shrill voice and calling those listeners fools doesn't make me think it's one of the good guys. I expected there to be one or two voidforms in command of a group of non-voidform Listeners. This is really cool though, a free spren can be so much more versatile, as we've seen. But now I'm left wondering where it came from. The spren seems very intelligent, so either it's been a while since the spren has crossed over and it has gained sapience through some form of bond, like all the nahel spren do, or there is some mechanism we are not aware of that grants sapience to spren in the physical realm. Maybe it's a critical mass thing, the Stormfather and Nightwatcher are sapient after all, even without being bonded. Either way, I'm very excited about this yellow ribbon.

Ah, forgot that was on the other blurbs too. That makes sense, but can we be entirely sure that it isn't specifically about the sleepless? Kaza interlude spoiler: But you're probably right, the casual reader probably wont think 'Dysian' after reading the blurbs for the first time. I just like the idea of the Sleepless having an ulterior motive.

You guys never cease to amaze me, great job. Knowing that this was written by Sleepless, is anyone else wondering why they may hold surges again? I agree the traitor is Eshonai, I interpret the ambition as something external, the ambition of her sister resulted in the loss of her free will, forcing her to do atrocious things to her own people. When she loses the stormspren I'm sure than knowledge is enough to 'break' her. Knowing how much Eshonai craves freedom it's especially bad. Also, it's interesting that Kaladin is referred to as Captain instead of surgeon on this blurb.

I like it, there definitely has to be a reason why a large part of the continent is cut off from the transportation network. I do have a question though. Do spren need a perpendicularity to cross into the Physical Realm? From what we've seen, most of Odium's forces will be splinters. We've had no indication so far that spren have to use a perpendicularity to cross over into the physical realm. In fact we see the opposite being the case, when anyone attracts spren. As I understand, spren that are nearby are drawn more into the physical until they are visible, on the spot.

Stoneshamans vs new Surgebinders Eshonai getting rid of the voidform and finding something like artform or a new form through the cometspren Maybe an interlude that shows what Thude and the other Listener refugees are up to An illustration of a listener by Shallan, any form will do An illustration of Urithiru, maybe a map of sorts? Spren interacting with other spren We know there will be some form of Thunderclast, I hope we'll see other void forces like other forms of the ten deaths More Rysn, Lift and Taln, the first two are confirmed I think.

Warform is more likely to act on anger and hatred than slaveform. Odium doesn't need to mind control anyone if he can rely on the anger at being enslaved for a lifetime that even non-voidforms will certainly feel. Eshonai also mentions that warform is more likely to follow orders and look to authorities. Warform, with their physical benefits, their willingness to follow voidforms that are directly influenced by Odium and their new anger and hate are the perfect soldiers for Odium. Granted, it would be better if every listener was transformed into stormform, but every voidspren is a tiny chip of Odium and I still think he's hesitant to expend too much of his power. Theres a limited amount of voidspren, and if there are not enough around to transform all the listeners, warform is the next best thing.

I think there's a WoB out there that says that Gravitation would work the same way for Skybreakers as it does for Windrunners. I'd be very surprised if some orders could only use a surge in a limited fashion. I think the simplest explanation for the pattern is that the character's we've seen use the surges so far are still learning about their powers. Brandon likes to write magic systems with seemingly clear rules, only to have the characters discover something that breaks those rules and expands the system we thought we understood, like in Mistborn. I think that Adhesion for example is capable of far more than we've been shown so far.

I guess there's only so many void spren to go around. Warform is mentioned to be more obedient and willing to follow orders, plus the obvious physical benefits. Lacking sufficient void spren it's the perfect form for what Odium wants.

Wow, I'm really surprised about how well the parshmen are handling everything so far. I love that they already seem to have a command structure and know what they're doing. They've got the logistics down. So I guess most of the listeners are now in warform, maybe stormform, while a chosen few have forms of power. Can't wait to see those. When I read that the Azish were negotiating I got aprehensive, and when I read that they stole most of the Thaylen fleet already I got genuinely worried. Most of Roshar is going to have to take a pretty bad hit before the rulers realize they can't afford to play games or negotiate. I hope we get to hear what the listeners were demanding of the Azish eventually. I'm excited to hear what the Diagram has planned for the current situation. My money is on Mr. T bringing a non-Nale-affiliated Skybreaker with him. He can't cheat his way through an oathgate. That would also put Adolin in a bad position and the whole murder plot would be resolved rather quickly. Syl was fun as always and I really enjoy reading a happy Kaladin.

Fabrials were far more advanced in the past. Think of old Soulcasters. Modern day artifabrians have no idea how they were made or why they work. Or the giant lifts in Urithiru or the Oathgates. Navani, one of the most knowledgeable people in the field, even remarks on how advanced the architects of Urithiru were. Finally, we see Nale use a similar fabrial to heal Szeth, and we know he only has an Honorblade that doesn't grant Progression.

@Calderis Thank you, that makes things clearer.

@Yata Asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction though, so it should fall under sexual orientation by the definitions you provided. So you could theoretically feel that you are any one of the Listener genders, be in a form that is capable of reproduction, and still be asexual. This is why I believe that all four genders exist in all forms, and why I am so confused about how the species benefits from malen and femalen genders from an evolutionary point of view.

The WoBs say that most of the forms are asexual. I haven't informed myself on sexual orientation and its relation to gender enough to judge whether or not the change from for example mateform to an asexual form constitutes, or is equivalent to, a change in gender. But as I understand it, and please, someone more educated on the subject correct me if I'm wrong, you could be a male asexual, male being your gender, and asexuality being your sexual orientation. So if I understand correctly, the two are are not one and the same, and the WoB does not imply a change in gender, but a change in sexual orientation.

@Yata You're saying that they change gender as they change forms? So there are forms incapable of reproducing, in which they would be malen or femalen and others, including mateform, in which they would be male or female. But the default is slaveform, and as you said they are capable of reproducing. If what you're saying were the case, wouldn't this mean that the species, without any bonded spren, they only have two genders? If without any specialization through forms, there are only male and female Listeners, I don't think it would be accurate to say that Listeners have four genders. It would only mean that some forms aren't capable of reproducing.

I'd love to know who or what these old spren are and whether or not they're still around. They would have to be Adonalsium spren, right? I'm still hazy on how many of the spren we see in the books actually come from Honor, Cultivation and Adonalsium. Right now most are probably a mix, but maybe Emotionspren primarily from Honor, Naturespren primarily from Cultivation? Then what type of spren belongs to Adonalsium? For Listeners I'm equally unsure. Male and female can reproduce, but malen and femalen can't? Or am I misunderstanding what those terms mean? What is the point of those two genders for a species if they can't reproduce to pass on their genetic information? Or am I misunderstanding and they can still reproduce but only in mateform? Do Aimians have four genders? Siah probably, not sure how Dysian would identify. What about all of the other fauna on Roshar?

@Extesian Is is described as right up against the mountain? I thought it was freestanding but sheltered by the mountains around it. The sheer side faces the origin, so do the tiers merge with the mountains? I hope Kaladin does end up flying Shallan to another peak so we can get a canon image that isn't surrealistic. And great work @ccstat! +1 when I have some to give again

I haven't read the entire thread yet but I have some (maybe) new thoughts. With communication out of Kholinar having died, I'm thinking it has already fallen. Odium must know the value of the Oathgates, and with the amount of listeners already in the city, and the city in chaos during the riots, I think they seized the opportunity and took over. The other oathgate cites are fine because Odium is gathering his forces around them more a more coordinated attack. I think the riots we're the deciding factor if Kholinar really has fallen. The fight on the cover could even be an assault on Kholinar by the humans, instead of the voidbringers. But I guess that's a stretch, because why would Jasnah fix a broken wall in that case, unless they were being attacked from outside of the city as well. I'm starting to think that the reason seeing the future is considered of Odium, is that when a Truthwatcher shares what they have seen, bad things happen. That must be incredibly difficult, seeing horrible dangers and not being able to do anything, because if you share what you see something worse happens. Maybe Odium isn't capable of seeing the future very well, so he spies on the Truthwatchers, and when they share what they see he knows and adjusts his plans.

I have no idea why but this made me laugh. So Renarin knows what's up all around. He knows about the champion, he knows about Adolin. Definitely not the last murder either, my money is on either Renarin or the Ghostbloods as well. Coldspren. Cool. Always fun to get new spren. Urithiru is super weird, I don't think it could have been soulcast anymore. It feels like it was grown naturally, maybe cohesion could do it but I'm not sure. The Windblades in Kholinar are described in a similar way, right? And I think we may have just seen what the Bondsmith resonance can do, I dig it.