DeTess

I shouldn't sign up for this, as being part of two games at once generally doesn't work for me. I really liked oerfect state though, so sign me up as Cane, keeper of the armory.

@Drake Marshall, I'd be willing to co-gm this one. Playing it sounds great fun, but getting to see the antics of the cthaeh live sounds pretty great too.

This looks pretty interesting, Hero. I haven't seen that film, but if I remember a review of the book correctly then the goal of both factions would be to decipher a series of clues to find an object first, right? Anyway, I do have a pass sitting around. If there's interest and you post a more fleshed out set of rules, it'll likely be yours.

I'll be Saoir, the royal Archivist.

Heh, that's actually pretty much what I expected teh win-con to be.

*checks Drake's alginemtn* Hey, I was right about something this game . @Seonid, what would my win-con have been if I'd pushed a bit harder to get taken over by ambition?

Wait, what? I was certain you where Odium. Ah well, nice shot anyway. Also, well done to HH I suppose? His is the only possible win-con I see causing an end-game state. I suppose it was stupid to dismiss the 'aspect on every planet' option. Edit: before anyone else claims to be someone or something,I would like to point out that it's april 1st in at least some parts of the worlds when Seonid made that announcement. I highly doubt he'd make a joke about that, as 'SE is serious business', but just in case, keep the role claims to a minimum

Fairly certain you need square brackets [ ] , and don't forget to close with /color. Edit: yep, that worked.

You're (once again) correct. I thought the extra life was a kind of investment role, but it isn't. Maybe this'll be the last time I make a claim regarding the rules before checking whether I'm right. Somehow I doubt it though.

This is a bit of a late suggestion, but can't ripple's shardless claim be checked by having @TheYoungPyromancer invest in her? He's already claimed, so we don't need any new shards to come out of the woodwork.

He was number 6 on the list I posted yesterday. I also mentioned before that I was uneasy about Drake, in this post:

That is assuming Hoid already has two converts, no other Shards are held by team Hoid and Drake and LL don't happen to be Hoid and the remaining convert. That last option is unlikely because of the random nature of the scatter after Silverlights destruction, but I do consider the other two options decent possibilities. I'll take this into account when i start looking into them though. Let's quickly restate the list for those who forgot: Let's start with Arinian. First of all, I'd like to wish him a happy birthday. Second of all, I don't think he and I would have had the discussion about the exact number of actions a shard gets if he was part of Hoid's group, as the first thing I'd do if I where hold was figure out the maximum amount of carnage I could get up to in a single cycle, which means figuring out the exact action economy. I don't think Arinian could/would fake confusion about that point if he was well informed. I haven't seen anything else pointing to him being village or an elim, so on to the next one. I'm hereby clearing myself. Next! (What? it worked for HH.) Next is LivingLegend. I don't think you ever explained these reads, @livinglegend. In particular, I'd like to hear what made you think Monster might be Hoid and stick might be an elim, if those reads still hold. That's a very non-elim thing to say in my opinion, because it's dangerous, attracts the wrong kind of attention and would probably not be true for an elim. I'd call it village, but it's explicitly not something a loyal villager would say . Next is Megasif... who hasn't posted since tuesday. @Megasif He's also only made four posts since my last analysis of him, and I still don't have a village or elim lean on him. Actually, if it weren't for the busy times Megasif had mentioned before, I'd be suspicious of him for following the reasoning of others for voting without providing much input of his own and not providing reasoning for the LL vote (he had expressed suspicion of him before, but that was 2 cycles ago at the start of the game, so an update would have been nice). I hadn't been particularly sure of Stick's alignment until her most recent post, which seems like a village level of effort put into looking into Ruin. Megasif did mention that the elims will likely be expending a lot of effort to find the other elim team, so this isn't as hard evidence of villagerness as in other games, but I'd expect the elim team to lay low when and where they can, and this is the opposite of laying low. The comment about trying to find an elim this cycle instead of going after Ruin again seems also to be a village one to me. Now it's Drake's turn in the spotlight. Drake's posts today have not really given me a village lean (I mentioned having a mild suspicion of him before), and his actions this cycle make me even more wary. How does the fact that both Odium and Ruin killed cause you to think that Fifth is part of Khriss group? For starters, Odium and Ruin can't both be on Khriss' team unless she lucked out and managed to get both of them N0, as she otherwise couldn't both convert and take from a Shard, and Odium and ruin got both released in N0 so she couldn't have converted both of them (assuming none of them got passed around). Honestly, this lynch on Fifth reminds me of an elim tactic I've used in the past, which is to use one unfortunate slip of the tongue of a villager to try and drive a lynch home. If there had been more arguments going against Fifth I would be less suspicious of the lynch attempt, but right now the only argument is Fifth mentioning multiple kills. Before I get to voting, I'd like to quickly poke @Elbereth as she hasn't been on since Tuesday either. I'm still leaning village on her, and I'm also still acknowledging that she's probably good enough to fool me if she was an elim. So, of the 6 suspects, Drake is currently looking like the most likely suspect to me. Also, I'm surprised that no one has asked me this yet, but the reason I'm currently looking at Hoid's group in particular is that Young bard's death gave us extra information on them. I'll be doing the same thing I did here with Khriss' group next cycle.

Hmm, interesting. If that's true, you're pretty much hard-cleared of being Ruin, as only non-vessels can get a shard if it's passed on randomly. I don't see why you state that there's no point in keeping this hidden, as you immediately seem to follow it up with a very good reason for keeping it hidden.

I didn't consistently think that. I did agree with someone stating that Devotion would be very useful to the elims because of its lynch-canceling power. AmI forgetting about antoehrs statement about Devotion being an elim before this cycle?

Because I'm dumb and thought Devotion had the returning power, instead of Endowment who actually has that power.

He lost it at the end of the last day turn, as investment roles are granted at the end of a day turn, and last till the next day turn. Devotion got released N3, which is unfortunately too late for any solid conclusions to be made about when Young bard got converted. We can be sure that he was converted last day cycle however, and from that I think I can conclude that Eternum and Devotary aren't part of Adonalsium's chosen. Young bard seemed quite willing to get eternum lynched, while I don't think he and devotary would have been changing their votes at the same time if they where discussing things in docs. Tie-breaker votes in particular tend to be interesting things to analyze, so I doubt an elim would have made one without first consulting with his team if they are available, which would remove the possiblity of accidentally breaking a tie twice resulting in a new tie if devotary was an elim. I'm honestly less sure about Devotary not being evil based on this than I am of Eternum, but I still think neither of the two are likely to be part of Hoid's group. This doesn't clear them though, as they could still be part of Khriss' gang. Below is a list of players that could also be part of Adonalsium's Chosen. In addition to Eternum and devotary, I've removed steeldancer, shanerockes and Sart from the list as well. Steeldancer was village and got Returned. Though being returned does give some interesting abilities, it's a rather volatile role that can't get any shards the easy way. It's notable that the one returning him was an elim, but I think this was done just to get village cred. I do remember someone saying that because of this Steeldancer was unlikely to be recruited by the elims. I can't fin who this was, and if it was inf act Young Bard that said this then I want to take a new look at steeldancer, but I can't find who said that. As for Shanerockes, this might be a bit of a meta reasoning, but he's been inactive for the first couple of cycles. If he was Hoid or khriss, I'd have expected him to get replaced by a pinch-hitter pretty quickly, and I doubt an elim team would have recruited someone that seemed to be inactive. I don't think Sart would have made the 'everyone's difficult to kill' argument if he knew Devotion was evil and was part of a faction that could field 4 kills in a single night if they absolutely wanted to. There are a couple of other people I'm going to drop from this list, but I'm less certain about these. First of all, I've already explained why I thought it was unlikely for HH to be Khriss or Hoid because of the way he's been using his actions, and he could only have been converted N0. Though it is not impossible for him to have been converted I've seen no evidence that that had happened. The things that made me initially suspicious are explained better by him holding a Shard than by him being an elim. Magestar was invested in by straw, so he's not Hoid. He could have been recruited, but he attracted a lot of negative attention in C1, so I don't think this is particularly likely. Pyromancer is still somewhat suspect in my opinion, but him being Survival does fit the facts as well as him being Hoid would have, and at this point I would have expected there real survival to have taken some kind of action to get rid of the imposter if Pyro's claim was false. A lot of what seems suspicious about him could be explained by him jsut being new, so i'm going to drop him from the lsit for now. Now, on to reads to narrow this list down further. I had a village on Monster, though Ripple hasn't posted enough yet for me to confirm this. I'm also leaning somewhat village on Fifth, and I explained before that he was a 'too obvious' conversion target. I haven't seen fifth play as an elim though, so I don't have anything to compare his behavior to. I didn't have a read on Orlok because I'm just bad at reading him. Joe seemed to need quite a bit of time to get fully caught up at first, and I'd think this wouldn't have been as much of an issue if he had an elim doc to read through and get summaries from, so I'm tentatively reading him as non-elim. That leaves me with 6 suspects, not counting myself. I'll go through these 6 again before the end of the day-cycle, but narrowing down the list already took more time than expected and I need to get some food first.

Fairly certain that after a vessel dies, the shard passes to a random non-vessel unless the shard had already invested in someone. Yes, that. Thank you in advance.

I was right! Well, okay, Young bard wasn't actually Ruin, but he was shady, and droughtbringer was actually good, not evil as I thought, but I was kinda 20% right for all the wrong reasons! Now, on that hings that just happened. Honor is free, and Devotion is broken. Also, If I didn't misread, was there a third kill that survival's extra life cancelled out? @Seonid, I don't remember if a kill against someone with an extra life is explicitly mentioned or not. Apologies if you clarified this before already. Devotion being broken is a bit of a shame, but cultivation is still around, so it can be fixed. Seonid, Does cultivation need to know who holds the shattered shard, or can she just submit the order to fix Devotion without knowing who holds it? Actual analysis to follow later.

Yep, I can confirm that's correct. I suggest all worldhoppers gather at the nearest emergency exit horneater peaks, for the great food, views and thermal baths. Also, I did a quick check of the votes for tampering, as it seemed at the end of the cycle that the tie had been broken against Jondesu by young bard, and now it would have been a tie if Ambition hadn't been voting. However Devotary missed Pyro's most recent vote switch, which lead to incorrect assumptions about the vote total. Since those posts seem to have been made at the same time, I think this was just an accident.

Right, I forgot about that particular thing. Drought. In this case, I'm going to abstain from voting. I don't have a good enough lead on anyone else right now. Edit: I'll also take the time to fully re-evaluate you before deciding whether I'll vote on you again tomorrow.

As I said before, Eternum seemed to be the most obvious suspect. My gut's disagreeing with that lynch though. That gut is saying that Young Bard is Ruin. I don't generally vote with my gut, and I'm not going to start now. Bard, I apologize for throwing suspicion at this way, but hopefully it'll make someone else take a look at your post, which means they might spot something I missed to either substantiate my suspicion or clear you. I'll vote Droughtbringer. Independent of the Ruin lynch he's still my best suspect for being an elim, and I'm not sure enough of a Ruin suspect with the information we currently have. This'll be my last post today, barring any major crises in the next hour or so. Edit: my most recent explanation of my suspicion of Drought:

Sorry stick . in my defense though, you did pick a rather dark shade of red.

Let's start this post off with a vote tally: Droughtbringer(2): Magestar, Shanerockes Eternum(4): LivingLegend, Fifth, Ripple, HH Ripple(1): Joe I'm still suspicious of Droughtbringer, and if he doesn't do anything to allay my suspicions I'll be up for lynching him next cycle. I hope to hear at least a bit more from him before then though. if he's good, I'd rather not lose him, and if he's bad, some more posts to analyse would be nice. (Note, the following is basically a repeat in one post of what a number of other people already have done. Feel free to skip to the conclusion if you've been following the thread.) For now, Ruin has (rightly, I believe) been the center of discussion. I believe the list below is the list of everyone that hasn't been hard-cleared (under the assumption that Ruin hasn't changed vessels). Drought mentioned that he, Drake and Legend are in Scadrial, but he didn't mention if any of them had already been there, so we can't clear any of them yet. Young Bard Eternum Fifth Scholar Jondesu Droughtbringer livinglegend A Joe in the Bush RippleGylf Megasif shanerockes Drake Marshall Elbereth Fifth has claimed to have tried taking form Odium N0, and I believe him, so I'll drop him from the suspect list. Shanerockes hasn't been very active (at all), so I think we can clear him too. That still leaves a bout ten people as suspects. Focussing on those on Roshar and Taldain is probably a good idea, as both of those worlds are still vulnerable to an earth-shattering Kaboom. So with those qualifiers, we're left with: Young Bard Eternum Jondesu A Joe in the Bush RippleGylf If Ripple did have Ruin's win-con and was acting on it, I expect he'd not be nearly as confused as he appears to be. I would have made sure I knew what was going on before starting to blow up more planets, at any rate. I originally thought that Eternum hadn't been active enough, and he does seem to have missed the restarted N0, but afterwards he does seem to have been active enough to be Ruin. Orlok(now replaced by Joe) had a PM with Elbereth. I don't remember which of the two claimed to have created that one, but if it was Orlok then Joe's hard-cleared of being Ruin as well. I've still got a lack of a read on Jondesu. @Elbereth, @A Joe in the Bush, do you want to share which of you made that PM? Lastly, no one has really talked about Young Bard, which I find somewhat suspicious. He brought up a bunch of good points that would help inf figuring out Ruin, but this also neatly deflected attention away from him, despite the fact that Young Bard would have put himself on the presented list if it hadn't been himself (if that makes sense ). I've made a quick trawl through his posts, and I've seen nothing indicative of him being or not being Ruin. So, of the suspects, I agree that Eternum seems to be the most likely to be Ruin. However, I am somewhat suspicious of Young Bard as well. I'm going to hold my vote for now to think this over a bit more, but I'll definitely vote before the cycle's over.

I was the only one to worldhop to Roshar D3, and no one else was there. The refugees from silverlight are Eternum, Shanerockes, Young Bard, Fifth Scholar and RippleGylf.

Auto got released N0 though... But yeah, unless the 4 people you just mentioned are all willing to lie for you, we can clear you of being Ruin, as well as Sart, Devotary, Pyro and Arinian.