Erklitt

7 hours ago, Releaser said:

I am a big fan of the theory that every herald (besides Taln) was at that Parshendi treaty signing feast. 

Haven't read the theory but wondered about that, too! Do you happen to have a link to such a discussion?

Edit: Just been to the discussion about the Aimians' curse, which reminded me: could the beggar that Axies meets be Jezrien? He would have had years after the party to move through all of Roshar. He asks Axies whether he's a herald, which seems a pointer against it, but after all, if that really was him at the party, he even asked 'Have you seen me?' So why should he remember that he knows all the heralds? And he does have something of a god complex...

@CaptainRyan thanks for the chance to try it; it's like Chull #445 said: I only got one notification. So that's cleared up.

@Chull #445 I wonder if it is possible to have a 'spren-independent' connection to Shadesmar? Maybe not for Humans, but for Aimians? But of course you could be right about the red herring.

Though, on a tangent: sometimes I feel like the long wait for the next volume makes us overthink and question everything out of sheer boredom instead of just following the leads that are there. (Myself absolutely included.) At least a few of those have to be what they seem to be, right?

@Jondesu Interesting indeed! Maybe we are all overthinking it...

But I still like the theory.

@Chull #445 I'll take this opportunity to ask what I've wondered a few times: does the direct @... mention in an edit of an existing post alert you of an extended answer, or does it take a fresh post like this one?

34 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

Granted. Unfortunately, in a vaguely relativistic tradeoff, you lose the ability to control space completely. You can observe the entire history of your current location, but you can't move around or interact with the world in any way. I'm afraid you are also still more or less a living human being, so pretty soon you might starve...

I wish for a clearchip.

Granted. As you don't live on Roshar, it will soon grow dun, without a chance of infusing it. And as there are few trusting people in this world, you will now have a keepsake from Roshar that no one will ever believe is genuine. I see you looking at it every day, wistfully...

(Feeling gracious today and not in the mood to come up with a really frightening curse...)

I wish for a chasmfiend gemheart. (Also not in the mood to be as moderate as you...)

@sheep You know what I find really fascinating? You don't like Hoid, and I do, yet you sketch him in a way I find fitting. I agree he's scheming, and usually I don't like scheming people, but for Hoid with all his knowledge and experience I make an exception, because I really think he's trying to do good. And to my mind, you captured the face he presents to the world very well - it's the mask he wears. In those rare moments when he talked openly to Dalinar, I'm sure he looked different - but while he goes about insulting people, I can perfectly picture him now thanks to your sketch. Thanks!!

4 hours ago, Chull #445 said:

So, we know little of aimians. We however know that at least one of them, Axies, is followed by something called the Curse of Kind. The curse might give bad luck, since Axies says:

"When the Curse of Kind followed you, you learned to take what happened as it happened."

-The Way of Kings, Gollancz edition, page 484.

So, Axies has his curse, and thus we can guess (or is it even confirmed?) that the other Aimians have it as well.

Now, how did they get it? Theory:

Aimia was scoured some time ago, and most Aimians seems to have been killed. A guess is that the Aimians then went to the Nightwatcher and asked for a boon for their whole people in order to survive. They got it, whatever it is (immortality, perhaps), but also got the Curse of Kind, which brings bad luck upon all of them.

What do you guys think?

I don't think we have much to go on, but considering the little I remember, to me your theory sounds pretty well possible. The Aimians certainly are intriguing. I think I'll read the Axies chapter in WoK and the scene in WoR again, to see if I can come up with a more informed comment and maybe some extending ideas, but at first sight I definitely like it!

Edit @Chull #445:

Reading that scene again, it sounded to me like the 'curse of kind' is connected to the shadow pointing the wrong way. And since Jasnah's experience, I've come to connect that with spren / the Nahel Bond / proximity to Shadesmar - something like that. And 'proximity to Shadesmar' also fits the strange abilities of the Aimians to reconfigure their bodies - as if they don't wholly belong to the physical world.

What do you think? Do you disagree, or see any way to incorporate that into your theory?

40 minutes ago, Lazarus52980 said:

I wish more people would read this.  It might lower the silly fanatical devotion to "stick", knowing that Jasnah has power over it...

In my opinion, that doesn't make the 'I am a stick' scene any less funny...

You all shatter my world!

I thought Hoid being a Dragon was a canonical fact, even if I had no idea what exactly that was. I don't know how I got the idea, but I know where I got it: here on this forum. Guess I'll have to change my signature soon... (and I liked it so much).

Can any of you point me to some sources that exist on Dragons, so I can form a better picture? Would appreciate it!

[Edit] I do have that 'Liar of Partinel' fragment, but nothing more so far except for published works.

25 minutes ago, Pagerunner said:

If you're referring to this, then it's not part of a standalone novella, it's just a scene. It might make it into SA3, or it might be like Mistborn: Secret History where we the readers don't learn about it until well after.

Thanks for this link. Being rather new, I had never seen this.

2 hours ago, Kaelya said:

Yeah I remember this scene but I just never realized it was Hoid... Thanks everyone!

The revelation comes 10 chapters later (55 The Rules of the Game), when Shallan meets Wit. (Note Adolin's undying words, one of my favorite scenes: "You hugged Wit!")

4 hours ago, Kaelya said:

I was totally serious and if anybody can provide information on that I'll gladly take it ^^ (or just tell me the chapter so I can go and see for myself)

My edition has different page numbers, so to make sure you find it (since I started this) : it's the last few pages of ch. 45 Middlefest

8 minutes ago, Drake Marshall said:

It is also interesting to note that the heralds seem to still be around in current Roshar... We have seen Talenel, Shalash, and Nalan. I am willing to bet that we have seen at least one other herald that we haven't recognized yet. I highly doubt these three are the only ones who will be involved in the story when all is said and done.

There are wide-spread theories that we've seen Kelek and Jezrien, too, both at the feast where Gavilar was killed. In WoR, Jasnah listens while 'Darkness' (Nalan) talks to someone else, who's worried about 'getting worse' ("Shalash is getting worse... am I getting worse?") who is supposed to be Kelek. He talks about "That creature (Szeth) has my Lord's (Jezrien) own blade" which makes him likely a herald, and as he is obviously neither Taln nor Nalan nor Jezrien and doesn't fit Ishar's description, that would make him Kelek. Jezrien is more dubious: In WoK, Szeth passes a drunken beggar. In WoR Nalan exclaims at some point (quoted from memory): "Praise to Yesier - if he ever stops drooling". Not very compelling evidence, but there it is...

9 minutes ago, djammmer said:

Big ah-ha moment for me (I'm sure others already get it.)   Heralds didn't have morality rules tied to their power... But the KRs did.  Heralds didn't create the powers for the KRs, the spren did.  The spren did it in imitation of the Heralds.  Something/someone (maybe Ishar, maybe Stormfather, maybe Honor) built in morality checks (or at least behavior checks) into the KRs powers, via their links w/ Spren.

So a few question -

1) Were KRs in previous desolations, or is this the first desolation? 

2) Who decided the KRs couldn't be as free-willed with their powers as the heralds, and they needed more discipline?

 

And ironically - even if it was stormfather, who instigated the morality rules, seems the spren decide to go against his rules on and off anyway (i.e. pattern & Syl both bonding to humans, even though they both said it was against the rules.)

 

1) I have no idea... I think we have hardly any information about former desolations apart from the fact that they happened, and the scant memories of heralds we have seen.

2) Though @Oversleep warned against reading too much into it, there is that paragraph in WoR (Epigraph to Chapter 42) where Ishar demanded the KR be bound by precepts and laws, or he would destroy them all. If the Stormfather has anything to do with it, I would suspect that concerned only the rules of Honorspren, whom he considers his children and who seem indeed more rigid in an ethical sense then other spren. I don't think he would concern himself much with Cultivation's spren....

1 hour ago, Kaelya said:

... Wait. Hoid did what now ? *facepalm*

Thanks, you make me feel a little less dense (whether you're serious or not )

9 minutes ago, djammmer said:

Although, IIRC - the Heralds did not create the orders, and weren't even initially responsible for them.   I think the spren created them in imitation of what Honor had done with the Heralds.  And also, IIRC - some of the Heralds were even reluctant to accept the orders (i.e. they didn't want to be related / associated with them.)

I had always initially though of the relationships between the Heralds & the orders as a very explicitly / formal thing.   But know I'm thinking it's a little more "squishy?"

You recall correctly - though as far as I know, only one herald has been explicitly mentioned as having been reluctant to accept his order: Nalan with the Skybreakers. It's in the WoR epigraph to Chapter 43.

1 hour ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

So I was reading the part where Nalan gives Szeth Nightblood, and I was wondering, does each Herald have their own unique Order, like with Nalan his is the Skybreakers? If they do, can someone list all the Heralds and their corresponding Orders/Surges? I've figured out Nalan's is the Skybreakers and Taln's is the Stonewards, but that's about it. Can someone help?

Thanks

Not to stop you from asking questions - they are always welcome - but have you discovered the Coppermind yet? If not: I'm sure you'll like it. Best way to find information in my experience is googling for 'coppermind' and <catchword(s)>, like "coppermind heralds" (works better then internal coppermind search) and the top result will probably lead you to exatly what you're looking for.

I have to admit that the whole Stormlight / Knight Radiant thing stayed pretty vague in my head during my first read. When getting information overload I tend to concentrate on following the characters, letting information about magic systems etc. slip in through one ear and out the other.  

One extreme instance of this - and therefore a facepalm moment - was when I finally understood what happened in that scene when Hoid was testing Shallan's lightweaving abilities as a child.

It was, I think, my forth (!!) read-through.

During my latest reread, the thought struck me what it will be like for Dalinar to have the Stormfather as his bonded spren.

Kaladin has Syl - who exerts herselfs quite a great deal to 'keep him honorable'. Shallan has Pattern, who helps her explore the nature of truth and lies. Both 'couples' like to chat quite a lot.

Dalinar has the Stormfather. The one who sent a highstorm to clean away their dead bodies from the plains. The one who started his bond with these encouraging words: "Go, Bondsmith. Lead your dying people to failure."

Dalinar is supposed to unite people. To unite Alethkar, probably (non-Stormform-)Parshendi and Humans, maybe all Anti-Odium forces of Roshar. More directly, he is supposed to lead ten orders of KR, who probably contain people of very different moods and mindsets, to bring and keep them together for a common purpose. All of which needs a great deal of empathic skill, flexibility and generosity. And what help can he expect from his new 'bosom companion'?

Has anyone tried to imagine what that will look like? I hope we may be in for some dry humor here. Maybe some harsh verbal sparring. But I fail to picture it... Ideas anyone?

9 hours ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

How about this one? It's probably one of my favorite scenes.

Document1.docx

Sorry for having to download this.

---

Kaladin whirling between 6 Shardbearers in the duelling arena?

Here is the drawing for those who have trouble with the download (I hope that's ok, Deep Dark Red Assassin )

5 hours ago, Argel said:

RAFO? I already read ch 88 and the rest of WoR. You might give that a try sometime....  

 

Guess the truth of it is I've read it too often . Szeth's resurrection is already too much of a commonplace fact in my mind. Imagining to read it again for the first time, being surprised by this scene... well, I think you have finally convinced me. (Sigh... I liked the Mraize idea.)

2 hours ago, Assassin in Burgundy said:

Granted, you have whatever superpowers you wish. But you also lose the ability to move.

I wish for an extra arm and leg

Granted. The arm grows where your mouth used to be, so no more eating or talking. The leg grows where ... (and now my voice gets too low to be heard, for reasons of propriety).  

I wish my every wish were granted the moment I make it.

Having followed these forums for months before joining, this is one thing that always struck me as unusual, and very valuable: people identifying with the main characters' psychological problems, and drawing strength from them. My own case is a minor one: I know depressive moods and can identify with Kaladin to an extent, but I'm aware I'm a 'light case' in comparison. But I definitely appreciate the way Brandon is exploring those depths with a tact and depth of empathy that is truly unusual.

I'm not very interested in labeling and defining the exact extent of a person's 'weirdness'. I'm more interested in individuals and their way of coping with issues. And there I find Brandon's work to be truly inspirational. Anything beyond this statement, I leave to your individual interpretation...

3 hours ago, Argel said:

Who was great at windrunning but isn't anymore because he just lost the honor blade that gave him those powers??

Yeah, but let's consider what we know from the book:

• Prior to Brandon's George Lucas moment, we actually see Szeth die on the page, so we go into this chapter knowing he is dead.
• Post revision, it's implied because of how powerful the storm is and how high up he is. Not to mention he wanted Kaladin to kill him. Anyway, the reader goes into this chapter believing he is dead with no reason to suspect otherwise. The change Brandon makes is to Kaladin's behavior.
• In this chapter, Nalan -- the Herald of Justice -- confirms Szeth died and explains how and why he resurrected him.
• Said Herald gives Szeth Nightblood!!
• It's the last scene of the chapter.

What we also know:

• Nightblood is the only invested object we currently know of that can reduce the amount of usable Investiture in the Cosmere. Vasher even kills his own wife to keep that method of Awakening a secret because he believes that knowledge is too dangerous.
• Szeth is getting his own SA book. It's in the first five, so either SA4 or SA5. Presumably that also means he will become a KR.

The obvious interpretation is that the chapter title refers to Szeth, and so far no one has offered a credible reason to believe otherwise. It ties in to what just happened to Szeth and foreshadows his return. Szeth's section is short, but it ends the chapter, and that alone gives it more weight. And the we find out one of the heralds has ressurected Szeth and given him one of the most dangerous magical weapons we know of in the Cosmere. And we know Szeth is getting his own SA book, so he's one of the ten most important characters in the series.

 

You're making a very good point !!!

I'm not completely convinced, and, if challenged, would still set my money on Mraize as the reason for the chapter heading. BUT: I repeat, you're making an extremely good point, and the rest is RAFO. I'm very interested in how this will play out.

12 hours ago, KnightRadiant said:

Granted. Then your whole family dies, quickly. (I'm tired.)

I wish my house was clean. 

On a bit of a tangent...

  Hide contents

What if the Nightwatcher's name was "Knightwatcher"?

 

Granted. Cleaned from everything including chairs, tables and lamps...

As for your tangent:
 

I wish for a long vacation. (I'm tired, too.)

11 minutes ago, Alfa said:

But serve them only with very delicious chull dung sauce, airsick lowlanders.

You wanna carry my bridge for me, crazy Horneater?

18 hours ago, sheep said:

Let me know what you think of this character design.  I'm aware most people don't make clear mental images when reading, and the ones that do rarely do it for very minor characters who appear in like 3 chapters.

I'm no artist and don't know what I'm talking about, but the way I imagine him his scars would be more disfiguring. Like where they cross the eyebrow or the lips, they should have some real (destructive) impact on those said eyebrow and lips. Make a deep dent or something, you know what I mean? He seems just still too handsome for someone so scarred.

But still, thanks for giving that man a distinctive face in my mind!

10 hours ago, Sam Script said:

[...]

Last but not least, the Chapter titles might not be definitely related to characters in-chapter. I think the point was kinda over-emphasized. It is possible to refer to Kaladin in former pages. But I would still believe it's Szeth for now.

I disagree: Chapter headings are often extremely meaningful in SA, but at the very least they fit what's inside. Naming a chapter for a person who's not even indirectly relevant in that chapter would be extremely un-Brandon-like. And I don't see such a big relevance of Kaladin in that brief thought by Szeth. Szeth himself might be it and possibly is, in that case I think the Nalan scene must be foreshadowing something crucial. But I doubt it. As I said before: that smell of Red Herring stinks for a mile.