Argel

Ah, good point about throwing the shardblade. I have to disagree though -- nothing is mentioned of the knife once it goes in. There should have been some mention of it when he was stepping back. More likely he left it in to avoid even more blood. I guess the question then is how identifiable is that knife? Family crest on it? Maybe not if it's one meant to be used in battle -- easy to lose. While doubtful, there could be instructions to wait for a specific type of opportunity. No one there knows Jasnah is still alive, so she will not be a suspect unless she happens to show up e.g. the very next day. But other assassins are possible.

Ah, that's where the Survival theory came from.

True. Just that if the Nightwatcher doesn't explain how the boon is implemented, I doubt the curse is explained in detail.

We know 100% for sure that Jasnah and Shallan were already proto-KRs before the assassination occurred. That's also interesting given they represent the two orders that can Elsecall, which suggests they may be the ones to start bonding first. We will probably have to RAFO SA3 to find out more. Do we know if the Sons of Honor existed back when Gavilar was assassinated? It seems like a lot of stuff happened as a result of that (e.g. The Diagram).

Sadeas was with his wife and some advisors just before it happened though, so we do not know how far away they were or how soon the body will be found. Adolin threw the knife over the edge to a platform below (I think it landed in the equivalent of bushes below) and took his bloodied cuffs off (it doesn't say what he did with these). Presumably Sadeas's body will be found later that day, but that's probably the only safe guess we can make. Note also that Adolin was recovering from injuries at the time (from Szeth IIRC, but if not, the Parshendi).

Wit could have name dropped Adonalisum just to see if Dalinar had heard of it period. More to the point, Gavilar may have heard that name given all of the conspiracy stuff he was involved in, so Wit could have been testing Dalinar just to see if he was clued in or not. Though with that said, Gavilar did arrange the wedding.... Interesting theory. Could we please avoid rehashing those other theories. The problems with them have already been pointed out in other threads. Please do some searches (and don't forget that site:17thshard.com works on Google, DuckDuckGo, etc.) first please.

Brandon said "personally", which sounds like it was written to be open to interpretation. As I mentioned above, I think the problem is he snapped. If he planned it out, it would be much less bothersome to me. Though like Brandon, I think believe Sadeas was a problem that needed to be dealt with, hence my comment about whether it was honorable to let Sadeas get away with so much (also above). The question was "With how it was handled?" (past tense) but Brandon mentions "how it's handled" (present tense) so Brandon could mean how the murder is handled in a general sense, not in how Adolin committed the murder. That leaves all kinds of possibilities. Maybe Adolin has killed so many times in battle that it doesn't phase him as much as we expect but the political ramifications are severe. O the exact opposite. Or something completely different.... There are a lot of new members, not all of them lurkers for many years. If anything, we seem to have an influx of new, non-lurkers and several long time members have gone silent (e.g. Argent, Kurkistan, Voidus ), so it feels like we've lost a "sanity" check so to speak.

Sorry, I was thinking long term, such as if the next desolation would have been in another 500 years if the Sons of Honor had not interfered. If they sped it up by a short amount they probably helped Odium, though that could have still thrown plans into disarray, so its hard to say (e.g. maybe more KRs would supposed to be assassinated before the next desolation hit). They definitely appear to be the most inept so far.

Lift does not seem to be aware of the details of her boon/curse. Lift Novella sample chapter spoilers

Is it WW that has the theory about problems with the afterlife? Maybe Sadeas still has an opportunity left to wreak havoc. Maybe he will be Odium's champion.... Edit: Major nitpick here: Being selfish to the level Sadeas is is arguably a form of fanaticism. Look at our world and how much strife greed can cause. Or the consolidation of wealth and the pressure on the middle-class. One can argue there is an economic war going on, but it's much more subtle. I might take a religious fantatic over one using a widespread economic ideology to achieve his goals in a subtler way. If Amaram did have a huge influence, then I might rate him higher, but the evidence is not there. There's also the question of whether "now" is better than "later". Wheel of Time last couple of books/ending spoiler With the heralds seemingly going insane, I have a hard time imagining that Roshar would be in batter shape if the desolation took even longer to come. If the Sons of Honor did help, Odium might be cursing them.

Apt analogy, considering how many times he uses scarcasm to try and teach things as well.

It's not clear if Amaram or the Sons of Honor have had any major impact on bringing the desolations back. That is, it seems like it was going to happen right about now anyway. So based on that, I would say Sadeas has been considerably more effective. If proto-KR Kal had not been there and decided to intervene, Sadeas would have been successful, and how's he supposed to factor that into the plans?

Yeah, but e.g. the Unmade are still roving around on Roshar. Seems like there is some wiggle room. Maybe splinters that already existed pre-oathpact. Also, if the pact is still in place then maybe they are in violation of it, given Odium more options?

Isn't it three spikes before TLR/Ruin/Harmony could gain control/access?

More to the point, that's exactly like the real world. The more power you have, the more you can get away with. Being more of a feudal society though, this trickles down further, or perhaps just more transparently. Regarding how soon we will find out... That all depends on where Brandon is going with it. If it's goign to cause a ton of political problems, then sooner than later. If it goes the "wracked with guilt" route, then I agree, likely later on. Though we should keep in mind tha structure of the book too. IIRC, is't the middle supposed to be filled with a lot of lore?

Drastically altering the orbits would be extremely disruptive and might even destroy the planet, and certainly make it nearly unrecognizable (think lots of volcanic eruptions, earthquakes, etc). And then there's the whole radiating its mass away problem that you overlooked: It doesn't matter if the end results are what you want if the steps to get there destroy or irreparably harm everything nearby (planet, solar system, etc.)

What!?! Family over the 17th Shard and Brandon's writing?!?! Heretic!! Blasphemer!! @sheep, we need a "Kaladin, Shallan, and Adolin visit the beach" scene!

If there are less savory things I have a very hard time believing Adolin has not heard something. If nothing else, soldiers talk, especially older soldiers. That would be one impressive spy network Dalinar has to keep his past a secret from his his son. We do have hints that he has only heard about the heroic/epic type stuff. But those could also just be Adolin finally getting a chance to see his father doing something heroic/epic like he has heard about, not not the has not heard about anything else. If he has not heard about the less savory stuff then that feels like an oversight by Brandon. It's also worth noting the less savory stuff will be much less savory to us than the Alethi, so not given as much attention. I can see a rift forming too because Dalinar is too harsh. Navani could be a wildcard here though, taking in the role of step-mother.

Let's not forget that one way to beat (or at least stave off) Odium is to get Odium to pick a Champion. Pretty obvious how dueling can factor in there.

I agree. I was just pointing out that Dalinar may feel guilt and regret over it, and that could affect his response. I think Dalinar would have preferred that he (Dalinar) did something his old Blackthorn self would have done instead of Adolin. I'm not convinced on that. Maybe the flashbacks will shed more light, but e.g. if Dalinar has done the same or worse in his past and Adolin knows something about them, then I think that lessens things considerably. If Dalinar comes down on him hard having done worse in his own past then that could lead to a rift between two -- one where Adolin moves on with probably some regrets, but not as much guilt as you believe. And good point about a shardbearer being 4th dahn. I forgot about that. Sebarial would likely take her in since he's so far along that path already and I don't think Shallan would object.

Let's start with a simple article that contradicts you: Source: https://curiosity.com/memes/if-you-had-a-black-hole-the-size-of-a-nickel-curiosity/?ref=ptm#meme-what-if-there-was-a-black-hole-in-your-pocket-kurzgesagt-in-a-nutshell

I would lean towards putting Hoid in the anti-hero category. We haven't seen anything to indicate he's inherently evil, but we have seen him help others when he can. If we believe him when he says that it's very dangerous for him to be on Roshar, then the reason he is there seems pretty clear -- to try and save what can be saved. Yes, he will destroy Roshar if he has to, but it's not the first option. Given the amount of power Hoid has amassed, if he was evil he could be doing much more damage. He certainly wouldn't need to e.g. spend so much time with Kaladin or the Kholinars. If he was evil, one would think he would have been spending more time with Sadeas or Mr. T. I also have a hard time believing Frost would be writing letters to Hoid and maintaining his non-interventionist policy if Hoid was evil. More likely, Hoid and Frost have similar goals/hopes, and there is a difference of opinion in how to let those come about -- Frost thinks Adonalsium put a plan in place and has faith in that plan and Hoid either does not believe there is a plan or has less faith that it will play out. It's worth noting that it may be worth the cost of destroying Roshar to destroy Odium, if the alternative is Odium eventually destroys everything anyway.

I like the Bondsmith theory, but I'm inclined to expand it to say that the local rulers had some way to lock the gates, and with that method lost, a Bondsmith is the "brute force" moethod. Or maybe the "skeleton key" method. Either way, the idea is that each city could lock their gates.

The problem for Adolin here is that the old Blackthorn Dalinar would understand maybe even have done it himself, but the "Way of Kings" Dalinar will be disappointed. Though with that said, if the Bondsmiths are the KR leaders and what Adloin did is okay for some of the KR orders, then... Well, I guess the KR/public Dalinar may -- I hesitate to say approve, but some kind of "acceptance", though I think in private he will be disappointed. But it's so hard to tell, more so if the Blackthorn Dalinar would have done it. There's also the potential for bias towards his son. Much like how he lets Elokhar rule instead of going for a power grab which he probably should have done in hindsight. Anyway, it's so hit or miss with so many characters!! I wish Brandon would release a teaser chapter that actually shed some light on this. Again, this is a thread about Adolin's fate. Start a new thread for those kinds of discussions. If you can tie them in specifically with a cerdible idea, then that's different, but e.g. given how we have yet to see Cultivation in action, I don't see how she's relevant to this thread. The Stormfather could be if you think he will influence Dalinar (or others), but it should be something specific that adds to this thread. Though I'm not sure how Stormfather or Honor would view someone like Sadeas or how Dalinar has left him alone. In fact, a case could be made that if Dalinar was doing his job, Sadeas would have been taken care of already, and the reason Adolin is in this situation is because his father was too caught up in ideals. For example, is it really honorable to let Sadeas get away with trying to wipe out Dalinar and Adolin along with most of his army? We saw for the longest time that Dalinar tried to lead by example instead of as he put it treating the others like children. Anyway, there's a new angle for us -- Dalinar feeling guilty about it. Also, now that I think about it, wasn't Dalinar the Highprince of War at that time? Not sure if that has been explored. And with the KRs forming and Dalinar being a KR, there's that angle to. I'm inclined to think the Skybreakers would disapprove, but on the other hand someone declaring he's going to undermine the efforts, credibility, etc. of the KRs during a Desolation.... The Skybreakers may just be more upset that it wasn't one of them who did it, or that Adolin snapped instead of doing it calmly.

Except in a thread about Adolin's in-world fate an out of context evaluation is, to be blunt, off-topic. We don't know how the KR stuff is going to play out. There's the heavy bias against them thanks to Vorin teachings and it's not like there's a KR bank they can start drawing money from. The one big thing in her favor is she has a shardblade, but it's not like she has been given some special titles or land by anyone yet. Maybe the KRs claim Urithiru as their own, though it's not clear what resources are available there. A lot of logistics to work out, which I assume will be part of SA3. But the point is becoming a KR doesn't come with all of those problems figured out. And there's still the Ghostblood problem.