kais

I'm struggling a little with the second book in a series, and would love to have a discussion. What do you look for in a second book in a series (or third, or fourth), when the story line is a larger arc? Do you expect full blown character introductions again? How much backstory from the previous books do you want/need, and how best do you like that delivered? Do you expect subsequent books to be written so they can be picked up and just read with no previous knowledge, or do you prefer to spend the books developing new information?

IT BEGINS Just got first round edits back on AFD from my editor. I wanted to share because... well, no one understands edits quite like this beta group. Solidarity!

@Hobbit two fridgings and two 'evil wolf in the forest' stories in one week. My forestry feminist nerd brain hurts. It is pretty funny (the coincidence, not my brain. Maybe me brain. I don't know. It's late. Wolves aren't bad animals. I'm going to bed.).

I don't think it needs to be defined right away. The moment you define binding, most readers will hang anyway. I'll hang, too, but mostly because I am terrible at the practice myself and can never manage to do it without cutting down on my ability to breathe effectively. Maybe I need an architect, too. Hah. #toomuchinformationaboutkaisa

I don't think it's an issue at all. Just wanted to note that I did hang here. Not in a bad way, just in a daydreamy 'I'm trying to picture Savae' way and trying to figure out where said lumps are. I'm a breast person myself, so will trend towards that imagery unless told otherwise.

But this is still Kazer's POV, yes? I think you could easily do the whole story in Kazer's POV with very little editing. The wold POVs added nothing to the story for me, and the randomness of the logger at the end was more jarring than anything. A little bit of tweaking and this could be a strong single POV short story. The best advice given to me by an agent for this is thus: we must have buy in before a character becomes relevant. Every time, EVERY TIME you introduce a POV character, you need to start the scene just before the action. Give us a few moments to meet the character, see them in some normality, get a glimpse of their life. THEN you hit with tension/action. Background always first. That would probably make it worse. I think you need to rethink gender dynamics in this piece. You have four characters, three of which are male (I think I remembered you using male pronouns for the wolf...). You killed the only female. One option, to completely avoid fridging, would be to 1) swap the gender on one of the other characters and 2) not make Tess' death a point of emotional growth for our protag. The better option would be to change the ending so that Tess is in fact not harmed, nor damseled. If you got rid of the wolf POV, you could in fact have two wolves. One could be Tess, the other whomever the actual wolf is (let's say its the lumberjack). Lumberjack wolf attacks, GASP! HE WAS WRONG! Fights lumberjack wolf. Things are looking not good for our POV character, then BOOM, Tess breaks her chains as wolf two, attacks lumberjack wolf. Or lumberjack wolf and Tess wolf team up. Whatever. There are a lot of ways to end this story with a solid twist, using the backstory you've built, without snuffing out the only XX in the room. You've already set her up as pretty overtly emotional. I'd expect crying at the very least. Maybe sullen sadness? Walking to the tree to be tied up with her head drooped, defeated? I don't know what to suggest here. It's a keen place to give Tess backstory, but that'd have to come from MC. Honestly, I'm still unclear on the ending. Was Kazer the wolf, and its his proximity to Tess that triggers his transformation?

He's the horse from the Never-ending Story. When it was clear the horse was a goner from the beginning, all I could think of was the kid calling ATREYU! as his horse sank. Your pronoun use is fine if you're trying to define the world. So if this is a patriarchal society, then it makes sense that your MC automatically defines everything via male gender. ETA: This was bugging me last night, so I checked Wikipedia. My brain (again) messed up names. The horse's name is 'Artax'. The boy in the story who helps Sebastian is Atreyu. Sorry about that.

Welcome to RE! Overall It is an interesting start to a story. The twists were entertaining. I didn't build sympathy for any of the characters, however, and found them a bit two-dimensional. A lot of the forest descriptions made me feel like I was in a dream, as they felt more like urban forests (with cement, the ability to walk straight and evenly) than actual forest. In terms of characters, I'd suggest one POV per chapter. Introduce us to the character before you make stakes, so we are invested. On the ending - you may get other strong reactions on this. I was not a fan. Perhaps we could discuss ways to have emotional growth of our primary POV character without killing the only female? I'm happy to help if brainstorming is needed. As I go - unsure how I feel about the prologue bit. "Tonight he dies" seemed over the top for a book opener. Like it's giving away the ending somehow. - transition needed between the last two paragraphs of page one - page 1: loggers near a hunting area? This seems at odds. Logging sites are noisy, the ground is well disturbed. Game is not often to be found in such areas. If you're making allusions to the hunt being for this werewolf thing, if it is around, why are the loggers still out? - page two: loggers dragging bodies. Excellent. - page two: I don't care for the sudden POV switch of only three lines. It breaks tension and doesn't seem to add to the narrative at all. The monster is always the scariest when we don't know it. - page two: I thought they were in a forest? How is the logger walking in a straight line? There are no straight lines in forests. - gait not changing as he left the trees for the open path. - nope, calling this one out. Gait changes all the time in the forest, even with seasoned professionals. The ground is uneven and you are constantly adjusting your step. If he is walking in a straight line with an unchanging gait he is unnatural. - Cut trees, work the wood. It seemed so simple. Kazer doesn't forest much, does he? - page 3: Still don't have a feeling for Tess as a character yet. I also had a hard time with the sneak up scene. It didn't feel real to me, but I have spent a lot of time in various forests, so I'm bound to be more nitpicky than most. - page four: Kazer only just now thinks something is off about the logger? The man carrying a dead body through the woods wasn't strange, but living alone is? - page 6: Tess' constant tears make me wonder about Kazer's choice for an apprentice. Twenty is old enough to have some toughness. - page 6: Tess as the beast would have been an interesting twist! - page 9: the actual reveal is a bit slow coming. It hits well on page 6, but by page nine we all know it is there, so it loses its punch - page 9: Tess' sudden acceptance of her otherness is not convincing. It makes her seem manipulative, like she already knew she was the wolf. That Kazer rolls with it also seems fishy - Then page 10, the second reveal - I would feel this a lot more if it was still in Kazer's POV. I don't care so much about the wolf right now. Having the scene with Kazer tying up Tess, touching dialogue, then a snarl behind, that would be excellent. I can see their shocked faces now. - page 11: too many POVs and new characters for chapter one. Characters should be introduced slowly, and each time you introduce a new POV character we need to spend some time getting to know them before you put them into action. - page 12: You fridged the woman. Please help us stop this sexist trope in its tracks. See here.

We meet again, Savae. Overall I enjoyed the second half of this, in the workshop, much more than the carriage ride. The girl coming into the shop and her family dynamics were engaging. The carriage ride started well enough, but dragged towards the end. I think your rewrite here is going well! Looking forward to the next round! As I go - page one: magic introduction works well - page two: the integration of the coarser language works better earlier on in the book. It only startled me for the first line this time. - or his propensity for having his way with literally anyone capable of consenting - LOL - page three - the level of backstory we're getting now, with earth and humans and such, is really helping my understanding of the world - page four - the dialogue in the carriage goes a hint too long, I feel. It was hard to keep from wandering eyes at the end. - forced to gaze on their lumpy, imperfect human body - so now I have a bazillion questions on gender and species diversity. If I hadn't read this series before, my first thought would be along the lines of...wait, do the aelin not have breasts (because that's where 'lumpy' goes in my mind), or are we talking more crotch lump? Body fat would probably be my third question. Basically, I'd hang on this for a while. - page 7: ooh, nice ending

Welcome welcome! Overall I'm not certain I have any strong feelings about this submission, because I don't have any feel for the world or Elias. This was eight pages of Wolf V. Man, and I had a hard time getting into it. I don't mind solid action sequences, but as an opening chapter I have no idea what the stakes are, who the characters are, and why I should care. Without those things, battles are meaningless. In terms of wolf control and wold scenes in landscape settings, I suggest reading at least one of Tara K. Harper's Wolfwalker books. They might give you more of a feel for wolf control and wolf movement writing. I'm glad you submitted and I hope my feedback is helpful. First subs are always nerve wracking! See you next week? As I go - the first paragraph is really heavy in adjectives and imagery. I had to read it three times to clarify what you were trying to say. The 'It was all gone' part kept confusing me, because the imagery makes it seem like it is in fact there. - Would the place where he had tied Stormarast have survived the landslide? <-- This is a very confusing sentence - he would care so much about his horse - ATREYU! - page one: I don't get any emotional impact from the horse being alive because I am not yet invested in the protag or the horse as characters - The door was open.- page one. This is the first note of tension, and it is at the bottom of the first page. There is a lot of discussion about the rubble. We really only need this once. Suggest moving the tension up earlier. - page 2: erm... we're skirting refrigerators here. Not directly in them, but suspicious activity. Raising a yellow card and offering a link. - If this was to be a battle, he needed to face it as one. - As one what? - page three: It's hard to keep reading the battle stuff. I still have no grounding in the POV character, or know why I should care about his struggles. This extended battle scene with no buy in makes it boring. - page 4: So, wait. Every time you say 'beast' are you talking about wolves? I think this needs clarified. If wolves are the only enemy, I'd like to offer my services as forest aficionado for 'things that are scary and can kill you in a forest that are not a misunderstood carnivore that is actually vitally important to the food chain'. - Foam from Stormarast’s chest and mouth flecked - the horse is foaming from its chest?? That's terrifying. - page four Where had this man come from - Intentional pronoun use? You're telling us a lot about society with your POV character's gender assumption here - page 6 - the horse was fridged. I don't...I don't know how I feel about that. Better the horse than a person I suppose. Hung jury on this one - page 7: this wolf thing is going on far too long

The emotion jumps don't make me dislike her, they make me frustrated because I want to know what is causing those jumps, and I didn't get an explanation until this chapter. Now I understand she has some deep fear associated with things changing, the comfortable becoming scary, etc, and that makes me empathize. Whether you want to tie it all back to the grandfather is up to you (for a middle grade book, probably best to keep it simple), but bringing out those aspects early on, even in other ways as @rdpulfer notes, would make me be on Team Sira right from the get go.

Down for the 29th as well

I'd integrate it into her imaginative play as a very clear seed of her fear. When you describe her being afraid in the woods and such, instead of that fear being undefined and nebulous, give it a face. Give it aspects of her grandfather's face. A dark waterfall looks like melted skin. A lizard on a stone has bulging eyes that don't blink and it makes her think of missing eyelids. Branches that catch her clothes are skinless fingers grabbing at her. Right now, she reads as just being afraid. She's pretty old for such baseless fear, unless it really traumatized her. How old was she when first saw her grandpa like this? That sort of look could traumatize a young child, maybe four or five. Maybe she really loved him a lot. They were buddies and hung out together. Then this thing happens and she goes to see him one day and he turns to hug her, reaches for her, but it isn't grandpa, its THIS THING THAT ATE GRANDPA or something like that. Now we have understanding and empathy. Now we have a young woman who can't shake a childhood trauma instead of just a self absorbed teenager.

Finally getting to this. Sorry for the delay. Overall This chapter is more of an outline of events. You could do a lot by cutting the action and working on character introductions and world building. Some suggestions are below. Riley also does not yet seem consistent as a character. I'm still curious about the world, but I want to see it more developed. As I go - woah. POV jump. I still am not invested in Riley yet, so it's early to introduce another POV. Some great advice an agent once gave me was this - establish each POV character well before introducing a new one. This may take several chapters. Without it, the reader does not invest in anyone, because too much is new. With that, too, every time you introduce a new POV character, spend a few paragraphs of introduction before putting them in the tension. The stakes don't mean anything if we have no background on the character. - Sarina? Who is Sarina? - still page one: now we have Annika. Too many characters being introduced in a chapter with a new POV. I can't keep them straight. Who are all these people? - page two: you show the penthouse's defenses working, then you tell the exact same thing. Let the description stand on its own - end of page two: are you trying to go for omniscient here? How do we know that some people recognize the remnants of burstone? - I had a really hard time picturing any of the break out scene. More description would be very useful - Now we're back to Riley POV. I think the entire first part could be just as convincingly told from her POV, since we get no character development in it - page five: there's just too much action. I don't know why the parents are breaking her out. Riley has no thoughts on being broken out (I thought she wanted to be independent??). Why is this happening? What does it mean? Just blowing stuff up only works for so long. - page six: when Riley cries out for her parents - is she happy? upset? I have no idea. - this war hammer thing seems like a Big Thing, and to just drop it in out of place makes it seem like you're dropping a trope instead of an object - page 6: the king has a solid question. Why didn't Reginald start with diplomacy, especially since they know each other? Are they all so rich that they can rebuild structures without a thought to cost? What about potential injury or death of guards? Are lives that cheap? - page seven: Riley just letting her dad tell her that he would take care of everything and she should go to her mom, and her meekly doing so, seems very out of character from how you established her in the first chapter - page seven: and now her mom is treating her like a child, asking her if she really stole. That's how you talk to a four year old. If a 16 year old was being spoken to in that way, she'd be mad as hell. - I am not convinced by the conversation Riley has with her parents. At all. - It's hard to care what Reginald and the King are discussing since I am not yet attached to either of them

@Vreeah YGPM

Wait...I totally meant copilot... CPs would generally be fine with doing readthroughs during edits too, if you'd like. It tends to be more of an intense partnership than just a beta.

In my experience it is a longer-term writing relationship. Usually it begins after one is substantially far into a piece. Bits are shared and critiqued in an LBL format each week or so for an indefinite period of time. So not an alpha, which is a breezy read through for like/not like and general comments, not a beta, which tends to be a one shot thing. Not a copy edit, because that's what an actual copy editor is for once you sign. I've been editing so much the past year I haven't needed one. But now with starting a new book from scratch, a CP would be very helpful. I like to have three or four for a new book, so if anyone else wants to be my buddy...

@Mandamon gotcha! If you need a CP for your fantasy, let me know. I have to start book three here soon and could use a solid CP for the ride.

@Mandamon what's your Twitter handle (if you don't mind sharing)? Would love to follow you.

Upcoming Twitter pitch contests, as found here. If anyone is thinking of entering and wants pitch help, query help, or all of the above, just PM me. August 29th: Hot Summer's Cool Pitchfest September 7th: PitchSmae: Star Wars -- TheWrite Side Septermber 8th: On the Block September 8th: #PitMad Twitter Pitch party October 5th: #DVPit for kid and YA lit October 6th: #DVPit for adult / NF November TBA: #AdPit and #KidPit December TBA: PitchMAS

Congratulations, @Mandamon!

Completely understandable @Robinski! I do the same- can't work on my stuff until the critiques for the week are done. Im always excited to see work from you, so hoping to see you submitting more!!!

Sent you LBLs and my thoughts, but just wanted to reiterate that I LOVE Brick, and I found this an enjoyable chapter.

Overall I liked it. A lot. I got a lot more feel for Atena, who she is as a person, and why war is so heavy on her mind. I'm still confused about the war in general, and would like more reasons for its existence, but you're doing very well on character development. Your questions - timeskip: is fine with me - worldbuilding: LOVED it - Atena: she needs work, but I like what is coming forth. We get a few more personal stakes out of her and I'm all aboard Team Atena - pacing: I found this chapter to have more tension and better pacing than the action-packed one before it. THIS chapter would have me keep reading the book. The one before would have turned me off as just battle with zero character development. This chapter gives me world, stakes, people, investment. - flashback: I detailed thoughts on this below Nice work! Can't wait to read the next chapter! As I go - 'high' not really needed with the word 'piled'. Piled already implies 'high'. Also, you use 'high' in the next sentence, making it redundant - page one: 'remembrancers'. Isn't this word pretty much owned by Garth Nix? Yes, it's a real word and such, but its use just sticks me in Abhorsen immediately. - page two: I'm still struggling with this war. Why is it being fought? What are the stakes? - page two: sidenote to Marcus - if you're trying to get a lady out, buddy, you need to work a little harder than that. Sure, she's a war hero, but there has to be a monster truck rally or a gun show or a rabbit agility contest somewhere that would perk her interest. Work for it. - page three: the word 'billboard' really stands out as modern in this dystopian world - page three: the line about giving hands whatever need to keep city running in perpetual cycle of reverence is vague. What exactly is the cycle of reverence? What type of reverence? To whom? - page four: Marcus has a statute but she doesn't? Isn't she some type of hero? - I'm not certain you need that whole dream here. I like the lead up to it, and the snippets, but the whole dream dumps a little much. It might be more fun to have snippets of the dream come over the next few chapters, perpetually invading her day-to-day activities and unwinding her story more slowly

Welcome back! I'm glad you're subbing again. I want to know where this goes. Overall While I can see a clear world emerging, I am having more and more problems with Sira as a character. Details below. I like the magical elements of the world, and her unfolding backstory, but I think the grandfather description needs to be a lot earlier. As I go - page one: need a transition between paragraph one and two. I'm confused - page one: I still don't understand why she is afraid. What is she afraid of, specifically? Why does she have this fear? Where does this 'maelstrom of terrors' come from? - I'm confused too at the transition from fear to slow steps at not wanting to return home. This is a very abrupt transition all around. - Why is she avoiding her grandfather? You set it up as if she was sneaking in, perhaps she'd been out too late? But the grandfather seems not at all concerned. She turns down pie, but says she'll come back for it later? What is happening here?? - page two: the empty dresser and luggage bit is good! - page five: "However, she realized, giant beasts would not own human-sized clothing." I LOLed - start of page six: again with this terror thing. This time it is a little better flushed out, but still. I need backstory. Why is Sira constantly acting like an alley cat? - page eight: OK, so here we finally get a clue to the flightiness of Sira. This needs to come MUCH earlier. It would help push the entire narrative along, as well. - page nine: While I have some empathy for Sira's younger self, the inability to see past the scarring at the age you have her at makes me dislike her character, and emotionally attach to the grandfather. Dude needs a hug. - page 9: French is a proper noun. Toast is not. - page ten: bungalow is not a proper noun - page thirteen: getting too many new gadgets here. I can visualize the triangulator, but not really any of the others. You need to spend more time on them, and introduce fewer all at once. Also, what happened to all her terror? She just willingly goes back to this place now, after all the fear build we had previously? I'm getting whiplash. - end: I'm disliking Sira the farther into this we get. She started crying before even trying to see if she was trapped?