krystalynn03

Notes My apologies for going over a bit. I've managed to slim it down by 700 words, but it's still 300 over. I didn't want to stop at the end of eight and drag out the fantasy element one more week, so I hope you'll pardon a little overage. Honestly, this whole bit makes me pretty nervous. It's the Rivendell point as my friends like to call it in books. After chapter nine and the reveal of the nature of the Snatcher, you're either in for the ride or you're out for good. For This Update: I've changed the ending of chapter 9 multiple times and I'm not sure I like this one, either. I know Charlotte's bit in the kitchen is probably off, but I don't want to add more and make that sequence longer because it doesn't add to the overarching plot. Can I get away with her mother not interfering and just onlooking? Anybody do some real life bushcraft? Looking up pictures of snares and looking at them in books isn't the same as really setting them, so if someone's got insight, that'd be really useful. I don't know anyone personally who does that stuff. There are some reactions and blocking in 9 that are weak, but I want to see what stands out to folks before futzing around with them any more. Anything else that's off?

The length doesn't bother me too much, but keeping in mind that it's 1k longer than 'The Meal' submission was, I don't think my feedback is as good when it's too long. I don't mind reading lengthier work, but it makes the commenting process not as thorough, imho. In other words, if there's a natural break somewhere, I'd probably prefer that, but I would read and comment either way.

That three me for a loop, too!!!

Hey Eco, I think the overall revision email is a bit long, perhaps. The editor who wrote you was super succinct, and in just one read of your response, you've put in so much information about what/how you think to change that I can't recall all the information without going back and looking at it again. I'd say the response itself is too wordy, regardless of content. It's super exciting that the editor offered to 'work through several revisions' with you. The advice he offers at the end is really fair and aligns to what I struggled with while reading your work. The basic concept is evocative, which you mentioned was a goal for you, but it just needs a lot of condensing and cleanup, which you mention you want to do. I'm not entirely sure what changes would make the story more 'traditional' in its structure, but I'd really have to go back and look at the story again in broad sweeps to see what the structure overall is right now. The bit about Terrell (a city famous for loony bins in my neck of the woods) was lost on me entirely with the chunks that weren't actually written out yet, and if the text was that fresh when you submitted it (not even a week old), I think some time working it over will get it to where you and this editor seem to want to take it. I really liked the concept of the story, regardless of unwritten bits, bulky paragraphs, and vague or misleading descriptions, and want to see it grow into a final polished structure. I agree that some of the minor characters could be cut to slim down the narrative, but only careful consideration and will tell you when/where/how much, and I don't have close enough knowledge of your story to think about what the right/wrong places for that might be. Good luck!

Hey Ethan! Welcome to the group!

Slots seem to filling up quickly this week. I'd like to submit next week as well, if it's okay to go about 400 words over the limit. I think the next section really works better as a 3 chapter chunk, and stopping 400 words before the end of chapter 9 would just be weird. I already reduced the 3 chapter by like 500 words, so I can't make it much tighter, I don't think, without cutting a section entirely.

Sue you? Careful...I'll take your pounds sterling to my dollar!

Hi Ecohansen and welcome! Overall, I liked your story enough to read from beginning to end, and as a reader, if I don't like a thing, I won't read it, so consider it a compliment that you kept me as a reader all the way to the end. I'm cool with the roughness of a lot of it, and I won't fuss at you over little things like tense typos or odd wording. I trust your overall style enough to suspect you can fix those well enough on your own after revisions are done and you're ready to line edit. Anyway, some things that stuck out to me without going through and picking bit by bit: --The spheroids at the beginning were hard for me to imagine, not that I don't know what a sphere shape would look like, but it just seems so dogmatically sci-fi-ish that it's not an image here or there for me --The descriptions of the main character are vague enough at the beginning that I wasn't sure if I was reading abouta human or animal or alien. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, except that I don't think it's an intended effect. I think in the effort to get things going with the plot that you didn't really set up the setting as clearly as I needed to activate the right set of background knowledge and imagery as a reader to fill in. --The name Joebob, the Appalachia, and the Mississippi all stuck out to me. I figured out, eventually, that you it's a post-apocalyptic future, but with a mix of somewhat traditional names and then fantasy invented names, I felt jarred. I suspected when Joebob was pushed into one word that you might have evolved/devolved English, but then you kept correct spellings of other place names, and I felt disappointed that I hadn't predicted a pattern. You don't need to explain your naming conventions in text, but I do want a sense of some kind of internal rules at play. --The idea of making a Meal as a spiritual and societal act of worship was pretty brilliant; it was a novel enough idea that I was along for the ride as soon as I read that bit. --Wish the part where Terrell surrenders himself was developed; it made me miss the punch at the ending, as I had to ctrl+f to go back and find out what had happened with him --The description of the adverse effects of the hall is brilliant --The bit with the persepctive shift between the scorpion and Joebob confused me. I liked the premise, but because of the shift, when the pincer came through, with Joebob's dialogue shortly before, I thought he was directly at fault --I don't think your interpretation of society's reaction to that kind of gluttony is a natural progression based on historical tendencies across world cultures, but I'm more than willing to gloss over that for the sake of the story Should I expand it to a novella, or shrink it to a proper short story? I think this is suited for short story best. You could some of things I don't like (sci-fi jargon) and prune it down to focus on development of characters, their ideals and the world Q2) Where should I cut? I'd say slim down some of the science jargon. Ask yourself what of it is really creating meaningful impact or interesting imagery for the reader and pare down everything else. Q3. What on earth should I do with Twiyoy? Unless I missed something huge while reading, I didn't see anything wrong with Twiyoy. People bring their own baggage and world views to how they read characters, and you can't control that. Furthermore, there's more than 6 billion people on the planet today, and you can only control the actions of one, yourself. That means odds are that any single person is surrounded by other people making choices they might or might not agree with. If Twiyoy makes choices that some people don't like, well, that's an accurate representation of the world how it is! Q4.Does the story as a whole come across as too much of a sequence of vignettes instead of a real story? They twine together just fine. Q5.Is having section names within a short story too kitschy of a gimmick? Do the actual section names I chose work well? I didn't find them gimicky, but I also didn't find them useful or interesting enough that I recall any of them without going back and looking. Q6. I tried to write a story about characters with philosophical disagreements. I expected a lot more variety and argument that you delivered after prereading these questions before getting through the text itself. I think the whole lends itself a philosophical air, which is fine with me, and I don't think any one part was overdone. Q7. I tried to do little tricks with intentional repetition. Beg pardon? Not sure I saw what you're referring to. Q8. In general, what do you think about intentionally ambiguous endings? Ambiguous is fine, but you got to set the reader up with enough information that they can draw an interesting conclusion. I don't think that's your biggest problem with ending at the moment, though. Q9. And of course, I'd appreciate advice and council on what I should do with those two lightly-sketched-out sections. Write them? Thanks for submitting!

Hey, good to hear from you. Glad you made time to read. Chapter 5; Originally, 5 was one with 6, but I thought it oddly long compared to the others. So far, it's the only chapter with a setting change. Is that what feels disjointed? I would like to do the next update in another 3 chapter segment, but I futzed with it all week trying to get it under 5k, and I just can't. It's about 500 words over, and I don't want to just do chapter 7/8 because chapter 9 is when 'the Snatcher' shows up and actually does stuff, and I didn't want to drag out the set up for another week...so I didn't submit this week because I couldn't decide what to do...

I'm sure there, but I see now my math was right. I wasn't 100% sure on the time zones.

Sure. Pop culture is just popular culture, and I suppose this was popular entertainment 50 years ago.

1700? 500 PM ... - 6 I believe... I wish I could sleep in till 11 on a workday! (Aren't y'all an hour behind Spain?)

No apologies needed... Pop culture lessons are appropriate

I don't know who that is, but feeling like a whippersnapper (I'm not) is good!

Oh, and welcome to the group, ecohansen!

Good! I worried a little when you said that part 2 was in the works...I thought there might be a delay.

Don't get a parking ticket!

Granny Jane will give Jenni the truth about Snatchers, even though we won't see one for a 1 1/2 more chapters yet, but I thinks gives enough true info about them in the next chapter that it'll help? I guess I'll find out next week as long as you're still along for the ride and have time to let me know if that fixes it. Thanks!

Asmodemon, Hi! Nice to meet you. Yeah, Will's reaction is strong, but he is very angry. Maybe I can ease the reader's mind with some better dialogue between Jennie and her mother about it. Even if he were really going to shoot the dog, he'd still be right to. Sorry if that offends any animal rights people, but it's 19th century culture, and if something's between you and your family's safety and possibility for survival, social mores are not going to come into play. Regardless, it may be a little dark for this book. The dog was mentioned as Leon's back in chapter 2, and maybe that knowledge would have flowed over better if the chapters were read back to back, rather than separated by week, but maybe not. There's a reason the dog's not home half the time. It's important (not pivotal) to the plot later, and I can't tell you why yet, but if it helps, I promise the dog's not going to get shot. Will's a terrible shot anyway. Thanks for commenting with useful insights, but I hope my clarification of future use of the dog helps.

Kammerite Thanks again for reading and commenting! Question: Did you catch why Jennie’s grandfather built near the Wildwood? If not, that’s two people who didn’t catch it, which means I’ve done some unclear, bad writing and need to fix it. Breaking Point: We will see the Snatcher at the end of chapter but he won’t be a focus till chapter 9, the update after next, probably, with the 5k breakdown. (rather submit under than over). I think after the Snatcher reveal, most people will either be on board (fantasy element has arrived at last) or will exit stage left. I guess we’ll see what happens. In some ways, it makes me the most nervous because I think it’s a polarizing element, but in other ways, I think it’ll be a relief because I think some of the historical accuracy emphasis will lessen once the fantasy gets going.

Well, like I said, I found your reaction very interesting, although the use of the word hate is pretty alarming, depending on how commonly one uses that word. Anyway, your comment here about Jennie's variety or lack of variety of reactions makes a lot more sense than just seeing your gut reactions to characters you don't like. I do think what you're suggesting would help build the narrative in the right direction and it would probably draw these scenes to a more poignant end. That's a brilliant idea and I hadn't thought of it because I hadn't thought of Leon as sexist. I still don't. Sexism is a very modern way of thought. Jennie isn't limited because she's female; she's limited because she's young and nobody's listening to her. Leading an ox like she mentioned was really more of a boy's job. This suggests she's out in the fields with her father learning from him, not just sitting by the fire with mom patching up socks. I do find the variety of reactions the more valuable thing ever. If you're comfortable with reading and commenting, go for it. I certainly don't want you to feel put off. I just wanted to extend that 'out' as it were because I didn't want you to put your time into something that elicits a 'hate' feeling. Leon's not changing. We won't see him for four or five chapters, but he'll still be stubborn and foolish as ever, regardless of modern sensibilities. Thank you for being open and frank.

Mandamon Thanks for all the little edit catches! 5-7: the goat—I understand your concerns about the tone, and I’ll think on whether I can scale something specifically back, but seriously, the goat’s got to go or the plot won’t push forward. Leon and Will have to have an argument bad enough that Leon disappears for days, and the goat’s got to be gone or Jennie won’t have motive to do what she does in chapter 8. If there’s something specific on those pages that jumped at you, I can consider it more carefully, but otherwise, I’ll just have to consider slimming that section as a whole if it’s too bothersome. I mean, I guess I could construct another reason for the goat being gone, but nature is a very real threat, the real threat in this book, which the characters overlook later, so what might not be working for you in the short term might work in the long term. I’m not sure. But I will keep your thoughts in mind in revisions. Location of the house: Jennie’s mother answered this question: and Grandpa Fullers thought being close to the cover of thick woods was safer. Helene: I’m glad you don’t believe her. There’s something of truth in some of what she says, but really, she’s just being mean. The cannon is a leftover from the war of recognition eighty years ago. Would it be the best weapon? Nope. Does it feel better to have something? Yup. Was it all they could get their hands on when deciding to retreat from society completely? Yep. Is it enough to make the youngest generation of people growing up completely out of society think they’re prepared? Seem so. Thanks again so much! I'm glad you read and commented!

Kaisa, I notice you've got some very strong gut reactions to some things and I find very interesting. I didn't really expect you to read this update at all, much less comment on it, since I mentioned this wasn't a sister story and that the narrative wasn't going in a direction that seemed to match your interests. All the same, thanks for the time you took to read and comment. I respect your strong feelings, and I'd like to answer a question you posed, but I really don't mean it as either an apology or as an encouragement to keep reading something that's not interesting to you. I think if this book held the kinds of things you like, you would have found them already. You mentioned that you felt no sympathy for Jennie. Do I understand this to be because she isn't breaking rules? Or because she's not rebelling against the system? There's textual evidence that negates those conclusions at the very end of chapter 4. as she brought in the half load of firewood in to the kitchen pile, she decided she would prove her uncle wrong about her being useless, even if the idea of what she had in mind spooked her. Jennie's internal struggle in the book through is that no one is taking her seriously. Not even her cousin, who's also female and young. Granted, Helene's a mean-spirited child, but even so, the repeating problem is there. Jennie needs a good reason to do something somewhat foolish in the beginning of chapter 8, and all this leads up to that. You don't like Leon? Good. You're not supposed to. He's the worst character in the book, and he's going to cause the whole town some problems later on, and if I don't set up his shortcomings sufficiently now, his actions later won't be believable. That aside, I respect your choice to hate him, but the fact that you felt is so strongly is interesting and it tells me a lot. The other critique stuff is useful, and I'll put it to good use. There is definitely a logical hole with the Teals that I haven't really addressed, and I really have to. Thanks for pointing that out. Thanks again.

The formatting on my post was a lot better in Word, I promise. I've been typing up anything long in Word because I hate it when the back button gets touched accidentally and I lose more than 3 minutes (and this was probably more than 30) worth or work. (Not that my cat would EVER go walking across my keyboard...)

General Impressions Am I entertained? I’m 75% to 80% entertained on the first read through, which is enough for me to read a whole thing—short story, book, etc. The first paragraphs excited me because I could tell I was in the hands of a good narrator. It developed fairly well through the first 40%, and then dragged a little in the middle with some of the military jargon, and then picked back up at the end for me because it spiraled back toward character development and the curious situation of the world you’re creating. Overall, the biggest plus to me is that you have set up questions in my mind that I want answered. Good readers ask questions as they read, though advanced readers might not even notice they’re doing it because they’ve been doing it for so long, and you’ve made me ask myself some very good questions here in this bit. I read and loved “Ender’s Game” and tried to read “Speaker for the Dead.” The question of who/what/why the pig aliens killed that character at the beginning of the book was enough to keep me plowing through that book of completely uninteresting (to me) plot and subplot development just to find out a question I had in my head from the very first chapter. So, that’s how my mind works when I read. If I have a question, I’ll forgive a lot in the middle if my curiosity has been piqued well. Good Questions I’m Pondering in This Universe (and no I don’t want you to tell me in forum…I want to keep wondering or discover them in story) Who/why was the ferryman chosen? (I know he’s not a ferryman, but he represents that archetype.) What does the ferryman have to gain redemption? What causes the waning of day to dusk? I do love the idea that it never becomes night, only that light weakens. Is there anyone commanding the opposing side? Or is hell so full of chaos that it just erupts with no rhyme or reason? Harth has two conflicts, an internal and an external. I think the external conflict with the fiendish hoard will resolve naturally in the narrative, but will his internal conflict really resolve? This part of the narrative feels a little less focused. How is the hoard always replenished? Will I see?Hm! Questions Caused by Confusion What effect has a lifetime of battle really had on Harth? Like, I know you told me that he’s killed hundreds and that he’s slept with whores and the like, and the internal dialogue seems to waver from nihilism to begrudging acceptance. Does Harth want redemption or not? (Maybe you mean for this conclusion to remain yet undrawn) Why do Harth’s eyes water? From looking into the sunless sky, I guess? Thoughts I liked the bit about the place lightening his heart. It makes the place seem more otherworldly than even the descriptions do. I think the juxtaposition of ideas between the heavenly effect of purity, calm, and holiness, drawing him away and making his battle harder would be an interesting theme to see developed. I don’t know where the narrative’s going to end up so it’s hard to give ideas like this, though.Revision Suggestions More fighting – Harth felt his heart sink. For a few moments, he had been free of it, dead, but free of the eternal slaughter, the grinding sadness, the screaming bloodlust, the dreadful emptiness. This place had lightened his heart he realised, but now the burden returned, the weight of bodies crushing his shoulders, pressing down on him. Harth’s chin dropped to his chest, “I thought myself free of it. I hoped...” You just told me how he felt in the deep third person. If you drop the dialogue here, but keep the ferryman’s reaction, it adds to the effect that the ferryman can so easily predict the reactions of the recently awoken recruits.The grey man’s features conveyed nothing. He extending an arm inviting Harth to turn and walk back the way he’d come. “The gates of hell are that way.” Harth’s moment of agency truly so far has only been to go left or go right. His response to it, “I’ll do what I must.” Maybe if this part were a little clarified on his internal motives, I’d have a better feel for who he is as a person and a better grasp of where I think he’s going as a character, regardless of whether my initial guesses as a blind reader are right or not.Harth ensured that his bitterness came through. I think you can give me a better visual for this.After maybe an hour, Harth’s unspoken questions had multiplied to the point of choking him. And all his questions are very visceral, not spiritual… I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or a bad thing because I’m not sure where he’s going as a character yet., ugly scar on the face of this vacant land I’d really like the face taken out, just scar on this vacant land. Harth seems a very literal kind of person, and besides ‘scar on the face of’ doesn’t feel quite clichéd, but it does feel very used to me.More questions spilled into Harth’s mind, but he quelled them, time enough to ask them on the walk. He says this, but then we get a big description and he doesn’t ask any questions at all.He tried to convince himself that it mattered, that he would miss them but in truth, all optimism and aspiration had drained from his life years ago. Had he really been any more alive than the corpses he left on the field? Scattered memories of drinking and whoring suggested not. But now there was hope? Hope of what, an eternity at the Creator’s side filled with regret? This is the internal bit I’m hoping gets cleared up, developed or resolved by stories end.Harth began to hope that they never reached the fortress, that he could just walk and walk and never stop. Why?Harth turned back to his troops. Their dark blue coats and pale grey trousers made him feel shabby, but he drew himself up, finding the presence that had cowed countless thousands of recruits over the years. It came from an unwavering belief in his authority, now from the Creator himself. He walked forward to stand ten feet from the middle of the front row and clasped his hands behind his back. So far he had only thought of soldiering life in terms of killing and whoring. Now he reveals he has leadership skills? This threw me as a surprise, but not a good one. It didn’t jar me from the story too hard, but I felt it overlooked.Harth strove to disguise his agitation as he stood in front of them. His army was not just fallen combatants but all the victims of war. I wish more about the description of the characters before told me that they were victims. I would have liked to draw that conclusion simultaneously with him. In a fantasy world, seeing that there were women and youngsters there in the ranks wasn’t enough for me to know that.He found Magdi in the back row, eyes-front like the others. She was no work of art, thin, flat-chested, her coloured blonde hair unruly, with long, dark roots. Her expression was calm like the soldiers around her. “What happened?” he asked. I would really, really like some sort of emotional signaller here from him before he dialogues. That would give me an idea of how he sounds when he asks ‘what happened’ Also, the roots and coloring bothered me. I don’t know how long bleaching hair has been a thing, but it pushed me out of the story as not matching the level tech you’ve got with axes and the like the weapons. I’m not saying you can’t do it or have it, only that it pushed me out of the narrative. “Is there a sergeant among you?” The bald man snapped a salute, “Dumkald, sir.” “On my order, dismiss the troops. You three remain.” Harth took one last look over the disparate band. “Dismiss!” Dumkald stepped out beside Harth and bellowed the order. The troops dispersed with the same uneven precision of their assembly. “Name, rank and time served, here,” Harth demanded. “Captain Yons Fermarald,” said the blond man. “Ninety-four sorties.” “Lieutenant Cresca,” clipped the woman. “Thirty-eight sorties.” “Dumkald?” “Ten sorties, sir.” Harth nodded. “Captain, show me my rooms. You can explain what I’ve landed in. Dumkald,” the sergeant clicked his heels, “Send Magdi to me in two hours.” I know this isn’t long, but this is where you lose me every time I’m reading through. I can feel that these people aren’t important characters and the exchange bores me. Commander and captain walked off the sward into the colonnade’s soft shadow, through that to the capacious white stone halls of the citadel. […] Fermarald opened the door and Harth entered. The sitting room was spacious had the same pale, unadorned walls and was stocked with sturdy furniture. Harth walked across the room, through the sheer curtains, all that separated the room from a wide balcony beyond. Fermarald joined him in looking over the endless plain. The chasm cut darkly through the soft browns, an ugly scar on eternity. This part is long, and it does not entertain me. It feels more like wallpaper than setup, if you know what I mean. I don’t see any impact of it to the plot. Change my mind or slim it down, imho. “They are monstrous – twisted by pain and anger. They are foul creatures, and desperate. A hoard fit for hell indeed.” I was excited to get description at last on the hoard, but then I feel skimped when the actually show up. You give us some okay panoramas of the action, but no crisp details for my imagination to really chew on. Also, I don’t really know what’s at stake. If Harth were to feel some anxiety at not knowing the answer to that himself, I think I would be a little more invested in the play by play of the battle. “You sent for me, oh high commander.” She came forward slowly, head bowed. The demure look was unlike Magdi. She started to unbutton her shirt. A part of Harth wanted her to continue, but it was not the time, if that time ever came here. It would seem that Magdi died after Harth, but maybe not. If not, then it would be nice if his first thoughts of her placed their last encounter at a time period long enough in the past that there’s obviously a time gap for her to have been killed. Otherwise, they haven’t been there long enough for her to be bored enough to complain that it’s more boring than hell. Also, why is she saying it’s more boring than hell if they have to fight every night. If she wasn’t a fighter in life, it’s got to be challenging and different. If I missed a detail and am jumping to fals conclusions let me know. I don’t have a problem with her looking for something ‘familiar’ in the afterlife, but I would like her to be a little rounder as a character. If she had a little more fault and his were a little clearer, then I could see them going interesting places as a relationship within the major plot arch. Again, I haven’t seen the ending, I might retract many thoughts once I see where you’re going Edits We need to have a good long talk about commas, but only after you’ve settled the narrative the way you really want it, so I’ll ignore them for now. There were a couple sentences with some odd phrasing that made my eyes jump back and reread, but it was minimal. Sugar for the Medicine Overall, your narrative is really good. I like the concept you’ve started and I’m interested in Harth and Magdi enough to keep going. You’ve got good sentence structure. I like your third person limited, and I like the rhythm of your narrative voice. Even if this were a longer commitment than a 2 part short story, I’d be on board, and that’s saying something. The librarian used to call me the book snob, so no, I don’t say I like a thing enough to read it lightly. I hope you submit next week. I really want to see where this going.