Toaster Retribution

Those events were the ones in which she used her Shardblade though, and killed her mother. So she must have been a Radiant before then. EDIT: Flash is worthy of his name. I got ninja'd.

Eddie Izzard should be Breeze. And I like Emma Watson as Shan.

When I recently looked at Pais Coppermind page, I saw her being described as a "Vorin zealot". This got me thinking, because we know of a bunch of other zealots, namely the Sons of Honor. So, I am going to propose that Pai was one of their associates. Pais role in the story was to kick of the riots in Kholinar, which she does by protesting against Aesudans mistreatment of the people. This gets her executed, and leads to the riots. We dont know the plans of the Sons of Honor, nor do we know the size or manpower of their organization, but I speculate that Pai knew that she would be executed, and sacrificed herself for a Sons of Honor-plan to take control over Kholinar. The chaos might allow them to assume leadership over the city, which might benefit them in some way. Do you guys think that I am on to something, or was Pai just a random ardent without ties to anyone important?

This all makes much sense. I still think that you could factor minorities into his popularity, even though they aren't the main reason (same thing with Jasnah). The things you bring up probably makes more of an impact though, and is a bigger factor in Renarins popularity (different things applies to Jasnah, as you said yourself).

Renarin is a character who represent people with different conditions (he is autistic, I believe). Those kind of characters, who in some way represents a minority are popular because of the representation factor (among other things). It is the same thing with Jasnah, as an atheist. Those who aren't parts of the minority groups in question often won't understand or relate to the characters in the same way, and might find them overrated.

WoK spoiler

Great find! I think it is possible that they are, since Hav the First was in Amarams army, and Hav the Second is too. I think you are on to something. It is possible that Brandon accidentally used the same name for different persons though. Or that Hav is a common Alethi name. Like in aSoIaF, where a third of the minor character cast are named Jon or Pate.

Wasn't Helaran a full Shardbearer?

Amaram seems to be accepted as a good warrior and swordsman among lighteyes, and we know its not all false reputation: Dalinar has seen him fight in duels. And he also has Plate and Blade.

What about a Mraize vs Amaram fight? That could be cool, especially since we haven't seen either one fight before.

I haven't read any DC comics either (they are not as big in Sweden as they are in the US) but I do know that there are very dark versions of DC, like the Arkham games or the Killing Joke storyline. So having the stories be darker kind of makes sense. I am personally fond of the religious tones of Superman (I liked both BvS and SS), so you and I are probably just wanting different thibgs out of these movies.

I am not surprised at Fifty Shades popularity, even though I think it looks like a really bad frsnchise. Sadly, controversial porn based of on fanfiction sells well. And the movies are cheap to make, so they dont need to make all that much money in order to be a financial success. I am a bit surprised that Warcraft did so bad in the US, and with reviewers. I loved th movie (but I'm biased) so I dont think it is that bad. I am surprised that the DCEU is a confused mess.

Im pretty sure he wants to sign Denth up for the tournament.

I really like this, and it feels like something Brandon would do. Developing things in unexpected ways to force characters into confronting their flaws.

I think that you are right in the sense that most people ignore Kelsiers despicable traits and actions, because they like him. However, I think you are too harsh: Spoilers for all Mistborn (including Secret History): While you are right about a lot of Kelsiers bad traits (vengeance, lying, manipulation, murdering), you also look away from his good sides: self-sacrifice, love, trust, bravery, encouraging. Kelsier is not perfect, and his bad sides are often ignored, but I would not call him more despicable than Straff Venture (using several women in order to breed Allomancers, plus attempted murder of his son), KanPaar (selling the world to the personification of entropy) Sadeas (indirectly killing thousands in order to forge a strong kingdom and grant himself power and satisfaction), TLR (enslaving millions, allowing mass-rape and putting up breeding programs for his own people) or a whole bunch of others.

@maxal I am okay with whichever interpretation. Personally, I had the Toaster Retribution interpretation in mind (obviously, since I am Toaster Retribution) but I'm okay with your idea of it too. I still think that main characters can be overrated, however. If you find the main character to be bland or boring, the role the person in question has in the story shouldn't matter. If I think that Kylo Ren is a better crafted and more complex character than Luke Skywalker, then I will also be of the opinion that Kylo deserves more discussion and praise. The role a character has in the story does not affect how well-written or interesting they are. However, I doubt that any of us will change our opinions on this, so unless you want to discuss this more, we will just have to agree to disagree, I guess. And as I said, I think that both versions of overrated works in this thread :-)

-Chris Hemsworth has a booming powerful voice, so he would voice-act the Stormfather (this is actually a real fan-cast I have). -Hugh Jackman would be Dalinar. -Morena Baccarin for Jasnah (another real fan-cast I have). -William Shatner would probably do okay as Taravangian. -Sophie Turner would be Shallan. Now, lets try casting the Reckoners! With: -Iwan Rheon -Stephen Amell -Jessica Henwick -Robert Downey Jr -Zendaya

Let there be 2,222 more!

Yeah, I think they can. If we keep on using Star Wars as an example, I find Luke to be bland (as I said). When people rank him over characters who are (in my opinion) more interesting, funnier, cooler, whatever, like Han Solo or Kylo Ren, I don't get it at all. Luke is the main guy, yes, but that doesnt make him more interesting, funnier, cooler than others. And like @StrikerEZ said, overrated is the word for well-liked characters who doesn't appeal to you. I know that you yourself find Adolin to be a great character (the most interesting I think?) and then I guess that you feel that he should get the space his interesting-ness requires. If you find the main character to be flat and boring (me with Luke) then you will consider the attention he is getting as too much, when there are other, more interesting things to discuss, like Kylo Ren or Han Solo. At least I think that way. In fact, I often prefer side characters in favor of main ones.

What if she wants to give the people an opportunity to get a better life, through a riot. That would be twisted enough. @hwiles and @Idealistic have better ideas though, with her punishing or hiding knowledge. I really like the hiding books thing. Sounds very likely in my opinion.

When the notification "Quoted by Calderis" popped up, I thought it was for the Paliah thread, so I just clicked without checking, and ended up pretty confused when your answer didnt end up matching the topic I thought I was at. Anyway, I am the type of person who dislikes when people seem to think that they are better, or wiser than everyone else, or act condescending. I feel that Jasnah does this. I do understand that people identify with her though, and I find it interesting how we understand different characters depending on how we are as people. You seem to know Jasnah much better than I do. @maxal I agree about Shallan. She doesn't get much love from the community (I would put her on an underrated characters list). I consider overrated to be more focused on characters who you don't personally get the love for. For example, I consider Luke Skywalker to be bland and boring, but he is pretty popular. I consider him to be overrated, because even though he is the main character the people around him are more interesting/fun/cool/whatever. Now of course it is easier to find people like Axies or Lift overrated, since they dont have a huge relevance to the plot. But a main character can still be overrated, I think.

Are you sure? If we look at Nalan, he is corrupted but, technically, he is just. He follows the law in a cold and extreme way, which ends up being morally unjust, but correct if we are going by the book.

Pfft, Oberyn is Azor Ahai and the Hero of Ages. (GoT spoilers): Seriously though, why would Grey Worm be Azor Ahai?

Actually, depending on the Ishar = Tezim theory, this might not be true. Paliahs attributes are learned and giving, and by the Heralds are twisted and corrupted theory, these would be, well, twisted and corrupted. I dont believe Pailiah is Pai, but for the sake of discussion, lets say she is. In what ways would her corrupted attributes fit with Pais actions?

One of the things I dislike about Jasnah, is her somewhat elitist attitude, and the fact that she feels so cold sometimes. She feels like someone who is unpleasant to be around. I do get why people like her though, so when I rethink it, I dont find her overrated exactly. Its more that I dont relate to her, and dislike parts of her personality.