Toaster Retribution

I like a lot of @FiveLates ideas, specifically identifying the primary Heraldic traits as ones from Honor and the secondary as ones from Cultivation. I agree with @Calderis about the time limit though, and I also think that it is something more than Odiums hatred that binds him to Roshar, even though it would be cool for a Shard to be tied up by their own intent.

I kind of like Lift. I don't adore her, but I like her, and I disagree with the fact that she lives in her own world. She is very brave, caring, and tries to help people. A lot. She tries to hide it, both from herself and others, but when it comes to, she is pretty selfless. Of course she sometimes acts immaturely, she is twelve (I think). And her whole disrespecting Wyndle is kind of understandable, given that she is used to independence. He is pretty controlling, and overly cautious, and then their personalities clash. She has no idea about what magic or cultivationspren are either, so her referring to it as Awesomeness and Voidbringers is understandable. The Voidbringer thing in particular kind of shows how normal people on Roshar calls everything they dont know Voidbringers, a bit like people in real life liked to blame stuff on demons or ghosts. Also, her threatening Wyndle with an excorsism was among the funniest things I've read in a Sanderson book.

Peter once told us about the mysterious connection between Vax and architecture: Nah, but seriously then, we know that there will be a full novel set on Threnody, novellas for Ashyn and Silverlight, something with Dark One (I guess that this is Vax). I think it was stated that First of the Sun will not have more novels/novellas, but things relating to it will show up in other places. Of course, you never know with Brandon. One day he is bored, and suddenly he writes a fourhundred thousand word epic about Kokerliis life story.

They do have some good uses, like episode discussion/toilet break/go get more popcorn. But yeah, they appear less in later seasons. I was surprised when season 6 went on for like three or four episodes without anyone being naked.

Autocorrect is a pain for fantasy nerds.

My issues with the show are these: -A lot more sex scenes/general nudity. I can read/watch things that contain sex and nudity, but I don't like the scenes themselves. The show has a lot of unnecessary sex and nudity. -I liked the complexity of the books, with a lot of minor plotlines and characters. The show has cut a lot of it out, but I understand why. -They stormed up a bunch of my favorite characters, mostly Jaime Lannister and Stannis Baratheon. -A lot more small plot holes, such as Littlefingers apparent teleportation ability. I hope Dany turns mad. Its really the only way I see her character becoming interesting. Right now I feel like she is an entitled hypocrite, who gets whatever she points at because she happens to own three dragons. When it comes to the Iron Throne, I was a firm Stannis supporter until (book and show spoiler): If I have to choose among the three big ones now, I'd go Jon. However, I'm kind of rooting for Bronn, Beric or Tormund to get the throne. I do believe he knows where to go. He does very early set-up for most events actually. Red Wedding was a way to set up further conflict in the North with Stannis and the Boltons. Oberyns duel set up things with Dorne. Joffreys wedding leads to Tyrions storyline evolving, and the deaths of So in most cases, I think GRRM has a plan with shock-deaths.

ASoIaF is probably my second favorite fantasy, after the Cosmere, and I want to see wether there are any other fans here (or if there are people who HATE it). Anyway, just general discussion, book vs show, favorite characters, who gets the Throne, that sort of deal. Also, to be on the safe side, spoilers will probably come up for both books and tv-shows, so warning for those who aren't caught up, but we could try to put things in spoiler tags if they are too spoiler-heavy. I'll start with one of my own opinions: the books are better than the show, but the show does a better job with some of its characters, like Bronn, Beric Dondarrion or Tormund. Also, I dislike Daenerys with a passion.

Thanks for the information. I already found out myself though, by checking HoA a week ago. This came up after a discussion in another thread where no one could find information on Marsh and his Steel. But thanks anyway!

It has been brought up before, but it is still a good idea. I like it, and I think its very plausible. Since Ialai can't be Highprince, its either Amaram or a new character. Amaram seems like the most likely choice.

Stormlight is the best, though ASoIaF, Harry Potter and Brandons other works are awesome too.

I kind of like the inclusion of chouta. It felt like a believable way to introduce Roshar McDonalds to Stormlight, which is pretty funny.

Actually, I think there are almost as much, maybe more, discussion of the consequences he will face for knifing Sadeas as there are romance discussions.

Stick is a fun "trademark" joke for the Shard. That said, it can go to far (sometimes it has gone to far). But I dislike bringing Stick up, since I dont see it as a character, which is my main problem with it. When you discuss/rank characters the Stick, who is more of a joke than an actual character, gets brought up, which feels like derailing the discussion into something that won't give anyone anything. Now, as to the OP, I would personally say Jasnah and Renarin since I dont find her very interesting. Their flashbacks are the ones I look forward to the least (hope they are replaced by Adolin and Rysn). I know that some people really like them though, and its not a criticism toward the characters, but more of a personal preference.

Hoid when he insults everyone. To see how much of a challenge it really is for him. Nalan during the events of Edgedancer.

Hm. I guess I'll have to get to reading it.

I'm actually pretty sad about Eshonai being our prologue POV. I am not very fond of the Parshendi in general, and Eshonai felt kind of bland in WoR. I really don't see what her POV would add.

I doubt we will ever convince each other. It is impossible to find a "truth" when it comes to morality. I just want to point a few things out: *You said that Taravangian is endangering humanity, and Sadeas does not. But at the end of WoR, we see that Sadeas is purposefully going to keep on fighting against Dalinar, which would endanger humanity as well. Just for his petty grudge and a wish for power. *The poor people Taravangian killed was for the greater good. That is why he killed them. We don´t know wether it will help or not. Mr. T thinks it will, you and I have our doubts, since we know that he is the antagonist in Brandon Sanderson story, and is most likely being duped in some way. Taravangian can´t know that. So he is not fooling himself or lying when he says that he killed them for the greater good. He is speaking the truth, as he sees it. What other reason would he have for killing them? He isn´t doing it because he wants personal power, he does it because he wants to save the world. *We know that Taravangian is ruthless when he is intelligent. We also know that this most likely isn´t his fault (he couldn´t have known what the Nightwatcher would do). When he was super-smart, and super-ruthless, he thus opted to go for the plan with the best success, and wrote that one down. Normal Taravangian doesn´t remember the other plans. You could even argue that he didn´t throw the other plans away, because that was his ruthless self, not his normal self. And since he doesn´t remember his smart-day well, he cant pick a new plan. He has to go with the one he already has, or do nothing.

Awesome! Wayne is hilarious, and I like both Wax and Kaladin.

Hello and welcome!

The interesting question is not wether this is possible. It is wether you could kill Shards by blasting them with the Sel Death Star.

Zane or Raoden... I don´t know, probably Zane, due to Atium. It could really go either way though. If Raoden manages to dodge Zanes attack long enoigh, Zane will eventually run out of metals. AonDor doesn´t need to be refilled. However, with Atium, I think Zane could kill Raoden before his metals run out.

I gave Final Empire to my dad. He didn´t like it much. Two of my friends like Mistborn though.

Being a Skybreaker or Dustbringer Radiant would be pretty cool. As for highest power, TLR all the way.

I would have liked Amarams POV when Kaladin denounced him in the arena, as well as when he killed Kaladins squad. Elhokar during the duel, as well as when he asks Kaladin for help, and during Gavilars assassination. I would not be opposed to a random Mraize POV either.

We don´t know wether there were other plans available to Taravangian, or what chance of success they had. Since Taravangian seems to dislike having to murder people, I think he would have taken another plan if he felt it was viable. And even if there were other plans, I guess that super-smart Taravangian calculated risk=reward and decided that the plan that ended up being the Diagram was the best way to go. I can see why Taravangian wouldn´t risk it with other plans too. Partly because his smart self lacks compassion, but also because he is very intent on saving the world. None of those make him evil. Sadeas reason for doing the things he does is defenitely worse than Taravangians, and they might be worse than Amarams too (depending on wether he thinks that a powerful Vorin church is the best for everyone, which I assume). When it comes to judging people, I try to look at reasons more than actions. What is the reason behind Taravangians actions? Saving the world. What is the reasons behind Amarams actions? Well, we don´t know for sure, but one guess could certainly be saving the world in a spiritual sense. What is the reason behind Sadeas actions. Keeping his country strong. Maybe save it from what he thinks will destroy it. And even that can be doubted, considering that he chooses to keep on working against Dalinar, despite the fact that he knows the Voidbringers and the Everstorm has come. The reasons behind Sadeas actions are worse, than the reasons behind Taravangians and Amarams actions. Also, I wouldnt say that Sadeas is honest about his intentions. He spends WoK lying to Dalinar, in order to move him into a position when he can be killed. Afterwards he is more open, yes, but that is because lying or keeping things secret doesn´t benefit him anymore. Lying and keeping things secret benefits Taravangian and Amaram though, so they do it. Both also admits to themselves that they are doing bad things, just like Sadeas does. The difference is that Taravangian and Amaram are regretting their need to do bad things. Sadeas doesn´t. I think that says a lot about who is the better person. I thi I think that if you do bad things for a good cause, and regret having to do them, you can be a good person, as you are essentially trying to help others. But there are different ways to view this, and I´ll agree to disagree. Regarding TLR, I wouldn´t consider him a good person. However, I doubt Taravangian would be okay with enslaving 90% of the population and freely allow the rape and murder of women for the enjoyment of rich men. So I don´t agree about TLR being the end state of the Diagram in the first place. And since he is my favorite Brandon-character, I will comment upon Kelsier too, real quick: he had some very good traits, and some very bad ones. That makes him neither good or bad, but something in between. In the end, I do think there is more good in him though.