VirtuousTraveller

Understood! =) We of course have the seons and skaze who are demonstrating obvious influence in the world and they've been around since the splintering. I'm sure as well. Sadly, Brandon isn't planning on an Elantris sequel until 2020 at the earliest, according to the last State of the Sanderson. But, we're supposed to get the final Mistborn Era 2 AND Stormlight 4 before then, so I won't complain too much =)

AU Spoilers This makes it sound like a Cognitive Shadow option wasn't likely. Granted, this is how it sounds to me based on the language, however: Stormlight Archive Spoilers

So while it could still be entirely possible, Braize doesn't scream as loudly as Damnation or the Tranquiline Halls as I thought it would. Ashyn is described as "the burning planet," which sounds more like Hell/Damnation to me (granted, my lens comes from a Christian background). It sounds like Odium is holed up in the Physical and Cognitive Realms in the Greater Roshar system, but the essay didn't explicitly (or exclusively) say he's on Braize. Maybe the Tranquiline Halls and/or Damnation are in the Cognitive or Spiritual Realms?

I believe the three large empires are the Rose Empire, the Fjordell Empire, and the Arelon Empire (ruled by the Elantrians, with its capital city of Elantris; the capital became Kae after the Reod).

It makes sense that their unique, direct influence on language and alphabets...took place before language was developed? I'm still not following. What do you mean, my friend?

So based on what we learn from the Selish Essay, I think the following points support the idea of my theory above: Arcanum Unbounded Spoilers: That said, as the essay states, much of the ancient past is "difficult to determine for now," as the splintering of the shards really disrupted everything on the planet. I wasn't anticipating Brandon giving us anything about the Vessels in this essay, but I don't know that anything I read disproves the idea of my proposed origin of the Dor. BUT, as this is theory-baby, I'm also biased :-P

True, but the shards are noted as being "extremely influential" in the development of human society. Khriss even says that "uniquely, the very languages and alphabets used today across the planet were directly influenced by the two shards." Granted, I guess the influence of the splintered shards could have impacted this too, but it still seems off to me.

There are two comments in the Selish Essay that seem to contradict each other: And then, the seemingly contradictory statement: So, how can these two things be true? How can the shards be extremely influential in human culture on Sel, while at the same time have been splintered long before human prehistory? Thoughts?

Arcanum Unbounded Spoilers

Because they've been referred to as "evil seons," there was talk that they could have been some kind of corrupted investiture as a result of Odium's work on Sel. I'm still wondering if they've been influenced by something beyond just being a splinter of Dominion, as "evil" seems like a pretty strong adjective for Brandon to use otherwise (source - #210)

This is one theory that I can't wait to unravel. Since we don't know if regionalized magic came before or after the Splintering, we can only guess. I think Brandon's comments about "not thinking right" may be that it's too simple of answer - rather than a unified system of magic, it is now fragmented (as a result of the splintering of the shards on the planet). I give an upvote to this idea (since we just don't know yet), but as I am a proponent of the splintering being the cause of a fragmented and disordered Dor, I can't say I support it! :-P I think there will be a lot of "aha" moments looking back on these stories as it relates to Adonalsium's influence pre-shattering as we learn more about the cosmere in the future!

I ordered one of the BYU bookstore "signed and numbered" books.

Where did you order this from? Is Brandon signing all of the pre-orders like this?

A god-king you say? =) I wonder if this is another connection to another place (from which we've seen two other connections already in the Stormlight Archive)!

Interesting. Would we consider this evidence that the Skaze are splitners of Dominion after all? It sure sounds that way!

So I wonder then what happens if you don't use it or give it up. Would we assume that the Investiture would consume a person's physical body? If this happened, would they be able to remain in the Cognitive or Spiritual Realms? I know that Kriss's essay on Scadrial seems to imply that Roshar would possibly be the only other place where mortals could take on so much Investiture, so I wonder if we'll see someone "ascend" on Roshar. I know Brandon has said that he wants the Stormlight Archive to stand alone as a series, but there's a lot happening there with the potential to break the whole cosmere open!

@Yata thanks so much for your diligence in getting this information onto the 17th Shard! We all appreciate you finding the opportunity to ask Brandon your questions! That's interesting about the Well of Ascension...we knew it wasn't actually all of Preservation, so it wasn't like the person would become a new Vessel by taking up the power there. But I wonder...does this mean that with enough Investiture, anyone could gain the kind of soul-expanding perspective of the cosmere that moved TLR to act against Ruin or Harmony to act against the red haze? As in, if someone breathed in enough Stormlight or acquired enough breaths, could they become cosmere aware? I wonder if this is what happened with Vasher and the 5 Scholars on Nalthis...

So let's play this out explicitly: On Sel, there are seons, which contain splinters of Devotion. Do we know for certain that the skaze similarly contain splinters of Dominion, or could this be an Odium-twisted copy of a seon? They've been referred to as "evil" seons which are obviously messing with life on Sel. Also, the svrakiss are here, which seem unrelated to either Devotion or Dominion, so they could be part of Odium's handiwork too. Do svrakiss have red eyes that we know of? On Roshar, we have an incredibly limited view (despite a lot of information) of Odium's twisting. Voidbinding could be a perversion of Surgebinding, just as the spren that bond with the Parshendi could be a twist on the spren that bond with the KR (or the spren that bond naturally with animals). The Heralds, which we don't quite understand yet, could somehow possess splinters of Honor (i.e. their Honorblades), or (very unlikely) they could be splinters themselves. The Unmade are splinters of Odium, which we know are influencing things around the planet (similar to how Honor wanted the Heralds to influence things around the planet). There is also the odd black sphere that Szeth took from Gavilar in the beginning of TWoK which could contain a perverted version of Stormlight. Parshendi eyes, when they transform into stormform (i.e. voidbringers?) are red. On Scadrial, there is Hemalurgy, fueled by Ruin, which is used to create the Kandra. It seems that The Set have "red eyed faceless immortals too," (i.e. non-Harmony Kandra?) as well as the monsters that chased Wax in SoS. Miles Hundredlives let out what sounded like a death-rattle when he died, which if it was, we know this occurs under the influence of Odium. I don't know that the red eyes are so much the sign of Trell/Odium as much as the obvious signs of his meddling with the investiture of other shards on a planet. Mainly because Harmony is stronger than him. I mean, if you were the big mean kid in the middle school playground that steals everyone's lunch money, would you go after the twins that are both as big as you? I have a working theory that Odium went to Sel because two shards there combined into one shard (i.e. Unity). He didn't want this newly fused (and doubly powerful) shard to bond with any other shards, so he went there and shattered it. He went to Roshar because two other shards (Honor and Cultivation) went there too. I think I remember a WoB that indicated that Tanavast and Cultivation's Vessel were in a romantic relationship (similar to Aona and Skai on Sel), which could have made Odium fear their eventual fusing of their shards into a doubly powerful single shard (let's call it by its Hollywood couple name, "Honivation"). Unfortunately, he got stuck in the Roshar system in the process of stopping this potential fusing before it could even start. Though stuck in the Roshar system, Brandon has said that Odium is afraid of Harmony, so he's obviously aware of other things in the cosmere. It would make sense (and follow his pattern) for Odium to want to go to Scadrial and destroy Harmony, a doubly powerful fused shard, as quickly as possible. Why? Brandon has said that Odium wants to be the single most powerful force in the cosmere. If a Vessel is able to see other events in the cosmere, it's very likely that fused, super-powered shards would eventually catch onto Odium's plans and take action to destroy him or to otherwise safeguard themselves from his influence. He doesn't seem out for self-protection; he wants to be #1. As much as I want to believe Odium is a red herring to the real force of evil in the cosmere (maybe the disgruntled Cognitive Shadow of Adonalsium, or the opposing force/weapon against Adonalsium before it was shattered), a lot of this evidence points to Odium. His motives and patterns of behavior are sorta clear, but just not enough for me to sell the farm and buy it yet! May the knowledge we gain from Arcanium Unbounded guide our way through all that we don't know yet!

I would think probably not. Zinc speeds up mental processes and would probably give the compounder the ability to "predict" the future based on the connections and processing of large amounts of information, but the compounder would actually need to have that knowledge already. The Diagram seems to be foresight into events of the future, not just educated guesses. Assuming the compounder had access to tons of information (via unkeyed copperminds perhaps?), then I would say the effects may be similar, but likely not the same.

In a conversation some of us were having on a different thread, the idea of The Evil on Threnody being somehow related to the Cognitive Shadow of Adonalsium came up too. While we can connect Threnody to Sel (via the Ire) and to Scadrial (via MB: SH), I'm not sure I see a clear connection (presently) to Roshar. SSSH does reference a mass migration from "the Fallen World," which was (according to the Coppermind) "a continent that contained the Homeland." Roshar is a continent, but I'm not convinced these two things are related. Chronologically, SSSH comes before the Stormlight Archive, so that makes me think it can't be Odium, as he's been imprisoned for thousands of years in the Greater Roshar system, while the mass migration on Threnody seems to be relatively recent. Perhaps ol' Adonalsium is still floating around somewhere in some form or fashion!

I'm really interested in the star chart and introductory essay for Threnody. I think this, more than anything, is the ripest ground for new cosmere-wide information. We know the littlest about it, and yet it seems to have major implications for a lot of things - I look forward to seeing your thoughts when they come together! =)

@WeiryWriter thank you for the insight! =D This sounds like such a new piece of information to me that it's blowing my mind! Has this been discussed somewhere else or did I miss this in the books?

That's right. The WoBs you shared make me think of three possible liklihoods: 1. Miles' last words were a "death rattle" (also seen on Roshar, known to be influenced by Moelach, an unmade, splinter of Odium). 2. Miles' last words were the result of possession by a svrakiss (also seen on Sel, viewed as half-ghost, half-demon spirits who were not allowed into heaven, according to Shi-Dereth, though the word is of Svordish origin). The svrakiss could also be related to Odium or as a result of his splintering activity on Sel. They seem unrelated to the skaze, Jaddeth, or Dominion (as they sound more like something of legend and myth, not so much official church teaching). 3. Miles' last words were the result of the influence of The Evil (powerful force that caused trouble on Threnody, a system that has some cognitive proximity to Scadrial and Sel, according to the Ire's worries in MB: SH). It's also possible that The Evil is Odium, but unlikely considering it seems more like a non-shardic force.

As we've brought up Miles, perhaps The Evil is Trell? I hope we get some insight into these things in AU!

I was just affirming what you were saying - assuming The Evil is not a shard or the influence of a shard, there exists somewhere in the cosmere something that opposed Adonalsium in the first place. It wasn't a shard of Adonalsium that opposed Adonalsium (duh) and it wasn't a shard of Adonalsium that shattered Adonalsium (double duh). Something powerful, maybe even more powerful than a shard, maybe even as powerful as Adonalsium itself, still exists. Perhaps this is The Evil.