Djarskublar

Well, one way or another, my initial thought was both. It certainly would explain why he wouldn't tell us. I am currently leaning towards the Edgedancer camp, but I thought that my initial thoughts were worth going over just to broaden the discussion.

Well, I talked with @zas678 at the signing, and he said it was up to team Brandon. I don't know where or how to get the okay on that, so I'm basically leaving it to admin. As to content of the reading, it was Kal's army days. It was basically that he is with Tarah or whatever her name is. She tells him she is leaving him because of work and family reasons, and so as far as we know, she is alive. Me and Peng were at the front row. He was the closest person to Brandon during the whole deal. At the end of it, he passed the bit of draft to the guy in the other side of the aisle. If it had been in his other hand, one of us might have gotten it >( oh well. Still working on posting the readings. With holiday stuff going on this past week it has been too busy to sit down and figure it out.

I am up in the air as to the deal with Ym's Order, but here were my initial thoughts along with some points I have noticed since I read. First is that he was most likely a proto-Edgedancer based on Wyndle's comment about watching the old cobbler. The other main camp is that he was a proto-Truthwatcher. This doesn't have a ton of evidence for it, but it is something to consider. My initial theory was that he was both. I was in the Truthwatcher camp, so seeing them consider him as an Edgedancer made me react with 'oh storms! he was both!' The only solid evidence I know of for this is how reticent Brandon has been about telling us his order. Taken in the light of him being a potential member of two orders, this makes a lot more sense.

Well, assuming all the Shardworlds other than Nalthis and Roshar (not an excellent assumption, but practical for this argument) are dishardic, there are at least 4 more major Shardworlds. Three of the four we have seen so far have solid access to some healing power on screen. If we make another shaky assumption, then we can say there should be around another three available. Just from major Shardworlds. Regardless, I would be extremely surprised if there were no other good healing powers in the Cosmere besides the ones we have seen. Investiture is just good at healing. This all leads into my point: Hoid may have a healing ability from another Shardworld we haven't seen yet. Heck, all of his abilities could come from different worlds, and all the stuff we've seen him do is just similar enough to be Red Herrings. Not that that is likely, but theoretically possible.

Follow up: if so, what effect would it have on Lift? Would she gain the ability to Invest via breathing (likely) or would she just get better at metabolizing blood sugar?

I like the idea of having threads like this. Helps the newer lurkers learn what might seem to be common knowledge to the rest of us. Cosmere Theories sounds fine for location to me, unless someone else has a problem with it. I have to cautiously disagree with you @Spoolofwhool. For him to not be concerned about having his head chopped off would take more than standard immortality. I am mixing this WoB with the in text bit where he isn't afraid of Jasnah at all. With gold compounding, I can totally see it, but normal gold Ferrings or people with lots of Light probably wouldn't be able to grow a storming head... They take too much time, or you lose too much power to a stronger tap. A suregebinder may not be able to even hold that much Light. Lopen got almost nothing added to his stump from his sphere. I feel like he has to have something abnormally powerful (read: a hack like compounding) to survive it. Maybe he is just incredibly Invested, so he can just straight up resist Blades anyway. Who knows.

Loved it. We definitely need a targeted re-read looking for cremlings. I hope this makes more people like Lift that didn't before. She just needs to get older and grow some, then she won't be so storming annoying for not listening to Wyndle and getting us ALL the info. By the time we hit the back five, she should be much more relatable.

I agree that she isn't Vivenna, I was just clarifying that a non-Rosharan could become a Surgebinder. Possibly just as easily as anyone else in planet, maybe with some extra work involved.

2nded it seems very much like Connection. That was my first thought there. She could maybe communicate with Worldhoppers on her own turf, or on a planet neither of them have been to before.

It's not entirely unreasonable. Part of the reason Hemalurgy is cool is because it can be used by anyone for most anything. I'm on mobile, so getting a quote is a pain, but I do have evidence. At the AU signing, I asked if a gold/gold Twinborn could use a gold shadow of them becoming a Surgebinder and then tap a lot of gold to grow a spren that they are bonded to so they actually are a Surgebinder. He said no, and then I asked if Regrowth could do it instead of tapping gold, and that would enter the realm of possibility. He then went on with some other stuff. You can find the verbatim over in the signing thread. The point is, a Scadrian could become a Surgebinder, or else they couldn't pull up the shadow.

I think they are a network, not a queen hive set. The parts where he talks about specialized cremlings for holding memories in particular are good evidence for this. Also, a sorta tennis racket form would be excellent for destroying hordes of cremlings. The wires acting like small blades would cut through swathes of enemies. Cremling enemies anyway.

Actually, I have seen no evidence that Surgebinders have to be Rosharan. It is about the spren choosing you, not your sDNA. Strange, I know, but that is how it is.

Ummm. Fallacy. 'my brother died so he was murdered' would be an equivalent statement. Definitely post hoc. Gods died there, it says zero about what killed them. Likely each other. I would be extremely surprised if the fain managed to affect a Shard. Also, my opinion would be that Mr A would have left the fain because it tried the hearts of men or something. Mr A probably created it in the first place.

Okay, so I took video of the speech, Q&A, and reading. I will post the first two, and wait for admin okay on the third. It's on my phone, but I'm not sure how to upload them. They are over 5 gig total with just the first two, and it was uploading really slowly from my phone. After an hour, it is maybe 1/20th done. Any advice on how to get it to finish sometime this week? In other news, during the Q&A, I asked if it would be possible to recall Breaths from an object that you had not placed there if the Awakener who did place them there had no Identity at the time. He semi-dodged the question by saying that for many powers this would work, and for almost all powers it would work if you also had no Identity at the time. Here is the verbatim for the signing WoB from me: Dj: So, say you have a gold/gold Twinborn and they worldhop to Roshar and they study the magic and do the whole Khriss and Nazh thing for a while so that they know a lot about the magic, but they've also left themselves a lot of options with what they can do. So then they manage to pull up a gold shadow of them having actually become a Surgebinder and then kind of meld themselves with that shadow a bunch, could they change their Cognitive Identity enough so that they could, like, tap a lot of Gold and grow the spren and actually be a Surgebinder? B: Unfortunately, no. It's a good question, but no. That won't work for a couple of reasons. One of which is simply creating Investiture is not something that can happen, right? Dj: They are a gold Twinborn, so they can tap a lot of gold... B: They can tap a whole bunch, that's true, they can do that, but simply having it is not gonna create a spren because the spren is from a different god, right, a different Shard. Dj: So if they had Regrowth cast on them, would that do it? B: hems and haws for a second. Dj: A really, really big Regrowth like in the middle of a Highstorm. B: Hmmm, this, you are getting to the realm of plausibility at that point. I still don't think gold is the way to do it. I think you just get all that Investiture. It would become sapient by you sticking a whole bunch of Investiture, and then you can bond to that. But it's not like people gain what you would have done. Does that make sense? That's just what's going to happen, is you're gonna, you can create a, potentially create a spren that way, but you are more likely to end up with something like Nightblood. But you could potentially create a spren, but I mean you're just gonna end up... Dj: So there are more optimal ways to do that? B: Yes, go bond a spren. (evil grin of course) Dj: But you can't easily bond multiple, and if you did this you could maybe get multiple. B: Nyeaaahhh... The spren still has to choose. If you want to be a Surgebinder, the choice is being made. You can't fake your way into it. Decision and Honor are too much a part of Surgebinding for you to be able to fake your way into that. Other magics you might be able to do that. Other magics that don't require, like, Surgebinding works because a piece of Honor or Cultivation or a mix has chosen you specifically. There is will from the actual Investiture involved in it in Roshar. Dj: Okay. B: So it's not something you can cheat your way into, right. But cheating your way into Breath might be easier, right. I'm wigging out! This one was sweet. This is a virtual confirmation of how gold shadows work. Also, the idea that this would potentially work to create more spren... wow! Even if they don't bond to you, there is potential for more Surgebinders! Then the last bit about how much choice is involved for the spren was interesting, but the idea that you could fairly easily hack your way into Breaths this way was fascinating.

I have a front row seat so I'll record it. Unless that's an issue. I'll still record it, but I won't post if it's an issue.

I am gonna be here decked out in a mistcloak. Super stoked. Will edit later with my WoB.

Hemalurgy to make yourself young again... You can't even use that on old people, they need to be young. Sounds extremely vampiric. @kenod casts magic jar. Random 20 year old fails their saving throw... This is totally what I'm picturing here. It may even be possible to steal youth via Hemalurgy.

That's... Scary. The fact that I have no idea what it could mean is awesome.

Yay he replied to my post! Djarskublar: So good work! I'd like confirmation/denial of a theory of mine. Is the reason people can recall breaths from objects but not Lifeless or sentient awakened objects because they no longer have the same Identity as the awakener? 2 mistborn Shardbearer • 52m You are on the right track.

Nah I think what we see is what we get with him. He just wants to catalogue all spren. I basically ignored Aimians in the OP because I think they never had a large population even before the scouring of Aimia. Seriously though, if this theory is the case, that could be super important. Think of the ramifications of changing the Cognitive landscape of a continent that much! What could that mean for Sel? Both past and future. If humanity can seriously change things by collectively changing some basic outlooks and emotions, then that makes me hopeful for the state of the Dor.

That's fine. Make it up to the thread with your thoughts on the real topic ; )

I realized while at work that there is an issue with my current understanding of the timeline of the spren's betrayal. I had assumed, like many, that this betrayal was them making surgebinders out of humans. But then, why would they let Odium corrupt them and attack humans as the voidbringers before that? They did so, presumably with a reason, so the bonding can't be the betrayal. My new idea of what the betrayal was is something that probably happened over time in the first 1000ish years humans were on Roshar. Before humans came, the Listeners (and maybe Aimians?) were the sapients on Roshar that could help define spren. Once humans came, they took over (not necessarily conquered, but you know...) large swathes of the continent. Their population probably far exceeded that of the other sapients, so their cognition was more important to the shaping of spren. Beyond that, the thoughts of humans may actually be better at shaping spren because of how set the Listeners are in their emotions. They don't appear to change much. As Pattern seems to indicate, the spren like being able to truly change, so the spren liked the humans more than the Listeners. The Listeners then felt betrayed by the spren for picking the new guys over them. This then allowed Odium to get a hold on them and start the desolations. Eventually, the spren started bonding with humans to make surgebinders to fight better against the Listeners.

I have my two cents to add. I would say that the Highstorms are probably on the same level as the Well. So perhaps even a normal Surgebinder could pull some trick to channel the entire storm into a surge under specific circumstances. That is easily enough Investiture to shift orbits with the gravitation surge. I would be kinda disappointed if only the Heralds could perform those great feats.

That was a truly fantastic post. One of the best I've seen recently. Have an upvote. I was nodding my head through the whole thing. Others who read this: pass him some too!

There is WoB on awakened objects degrading, but I'm on mobile so I feel too lazy to quote it. For your point of needing to 'be Shashara,' I can say there is a large chance that won't work. I would say I'm certain, but I don't have proof, just circumstantial evidence. You can't recall Breath from Lifeless, probably due to the fact that normal awakening imprints part of your mind on the object, so it has the same identity as you, whereas awakening lifeless is closer to either restoring the soul of the dead to its body or implanting a new soul into the body. You have a different Identity, so you can't recall the Breath. The same should apply to Nightblood. On the other hand, if you wrote your ID to 'be Nightblood' you might actually be able to do it. This is just headcanon though, but I can pull up related evidence of you want me to.