Amanuensis
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Amanuensis. I'm back to wanting to die again. Just let me eat popcorn with Mat and Karn in the dead doc and watch the chaos enfold in sanity.
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Illwei, since when do Reckoners have Epic Allies? Since when do they have over ten?
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That's cool. LAFO.
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Because TJ is a heckin troll.
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Again, if we assume E!Archer, we must also assume everything he says about his role is a lie. Being on a team with Mat = knowing there were Village Epics from the start, thus enabling his claim. I trust you more than I trusted Mat D1, and I'd really love that tunnel to not have been for nothing.
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Exactly. And Archer's fake role claim fits Mat's very real role in how weird and specific and limited it is. That, plus him immediately proclaiming this game was an item game on Mat's flip when that was not my impression at all, even before all the role claims. It really seems to me E!Mat and E!Archer were a team. That the elims are meant to be getting benefits from the dead Village epics they successfully killed. It also fits the V!Stick narrative, and that people voting her D1 were elims trying to spare Mat. ED1T: @Kasimir I think Archer dug himself in a hole on D2 with that fake @ Mat stuff, and he has no choice but to double down this turn after the kayana info we've gotten. No one could have anticipated a mass role claim. I highly doubt the elims did.
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I mean, were we right about Mat being an elim.
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TBH I thought it was you which is actually hella comforting, ty for the confirmation. @Illwei are you a Regular too? Why the heck are you giving me any flack? ED1T: Likelihood of Team Village having both Knighthawk Scientist and Gifter Epic... Evaluating... Evaluating... @Kasimir was Mat right?
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@Szeth_Pancakes you and Stink are the only players remaining who at least haven't mentioned if they have a role or are Regular. If neither of you is lying (and no one else is) this game has a whopping 3 Regulars (TUA, JNV, me) which is kinda insane. Or 4, I guess, if Mint ends up dying instead of getting replaced. ED1T: @Archer Look, friend. Benefit of the doubt. If you are Village, please use the remaining time today to help us figure out who the real elims are. It's not me or Kas - anyone who's kept up with the thread can tell you that. It could be Orlok maybe but tbh I doubt it and would not exe him until C5 the earliest, probably even later, depending on how the village performs in the future. So please don't bother wasting any of your votes there. We're just lost, man. We need direction. No one else is aware of the thing you've been aware of from D1, and you have to admit it's kinda weird after getting all the claims we have since. If we see your role flip, then we can figure out the way forward. But if you really are Village, then we should be able to do it with you too. So please, show me that you're trying to solve the game even a little bit. Maybe do some of that distro speculation you talked about today, even. Maybe help us figure out who could be lying among these role claims. It's the only chance of me being willing to give you a shot.
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Didn't you vote him at the start of this turn for "reasons" you never explained? Anyway... Ultimately, I refuse to believe a Medium/Reviver is in a game with indefinite or infinite no flips. I can only see a role like that working if flips are delayed by a single turn. Note how Archer claimed his role only works if the player's alignment has not been revealed. Note how we've yet to see any alignments after 2 exes. Note how there have been zero elim night kills, assuming that Devo is truthfully a Neutral SK. The pieces just don't fit together. Beyond that, I believe the elims have known about the no alignment flips and village epics from the start, and Archer's claim was always a ploy to prop one of them up in our good graces by warning us. ED1T: @Illwei so who do we exe today, if not Archer? Serious question. Who do you think needs to die the most, based on your reads? I'm always down for a side wagon to see who prefers what, so...
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Thank you for being the voice of reason I need to chill out #VillageBros
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Gah, fair enough. I'm hella stubborn too, if that wasn't abundantly clear from this cycle I guess if we can't agree on the points against him, then we can at least engage in a slightly different way. Why shouldn't he die? What is the real loss? Archer has made no significant contributions to this game. It doesn't seem like he will have much time to do anything in the near future. It's basically D1 3.0 with no alignment flips. So who do we kill? You to confirm that your alignment will flip because of your one-of-a-kind role that none of the other 17 claimants have? What does Illwei consider a "good" wagon today? Why aren't you making it?
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Not calling you bad I'm just saying I'm better. Hyperconfidence ftw. For the record I'm only engaging with you (and not engaging with Archer directly at all) because I'm open to you being a Villager and flat up refuse to believe Archer is one at all. But even if he is, it's a positive information gain for the Village. A few of us have spiraled in a dozen different directions trying to make sense of how this game is meant to work. From the beginning, Archer is the only player that has claimed a role that directly engages with the lack of alignment flips. This means the lack of alignment flips is elim TMI, the existence of village epics is elim tmi, and he used both of that information to trick people like you into believing he's one of us. I am too much a skeptic for that. Especially after 70% of the players have role claimed by the end of D2. We need to know, right now, whether anything Archer has said about the flips is true. If we don't we are going to continue killing each other mindlessly until we lose.
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Sorry, I'm kind of a tonal mimic =\ adapt to who I'm talking with. Was trying to speak to Illwei in her own language, I guess. Won't happen again.
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I thought you were a mafia god smh, how can you have so many bad takes and not be a wolf frfr Who said yesterday's wagons were bad? You? Why weren't you there during the cycle to make a good wagon then? What negative information do we get? He is not flipping a role that speaks with the dead or can revive them. It does not exist in the game. The second that is proven we know every little detail he's told us was meant to keep us from doing anything productive. Period. End of story. Will eat every player in this game's hat if I'm wrong.
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Tbh I have almost no idea how to read you but as an openwolf today. Don't even get me started on deliberately nullifying Kas' riot "for fun" smh
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I was willing to believe Reviver when we thought alignments were delayed by a single turn. It even made sense with the whole limited question thing to an extent, since there's that risk / reward factor in not knowing if you are bringing a good guy or a bad guy yet. I even called the possibility on C2 because I worked it out logically. And the reason why I heelturned today is for one simple reason. The black alignment flips have not gone away. The only indiciation that we can get alignment flips back is Archer himself. And frankly, the dead should stay dead. I don't mess with zombies. ED1T: Illwei plz stop open wolfing or fake open wolfing. This is a very elim-about-to-die progression and you know it. - Keep role as vague and non-threatening as possible for as long as possible - Trickle out more details as pressure mounts until it looks like people no longer trust you - If death seems guaranteed, claim some role that Villagers would be desperate to keep - Vote or accuse every player that does not buy your RC ED2T: The second Archer started by voting me, it was as good as a guarantee. ED3T: @Devotary of Spontaneity if you're looking to exe an elim epic, this is probably your man. Do you know if you achieve your win con of killing 1 V and 1 E Epic, it will be told in your PM? If so it would guarantee the village is on the right track.
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@Kasimir How likely would you say E!Archer would vote for E!Mat on D1?
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You're either Village (99% chance imo) or you just pocketed me (). In either case, good work! Don't worry about not being around, real life do be real lifing. Sorry for making your job of catching up harder
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I've slept. I've ruminated. And the tunnel has only grown deeper and darker. Unlike Mat tho, I have zero doubts about Archer. C1 someone dies, C2 he asks questions, C3 he recieves the answers and can act on said information. Same with C2 to C3 to C4, etc, etc. In even a normal game of SE, I would be calling this out too. Look at every role claim we have gotten that has or can be verified. They all have immediate benefits and provide more information than anything 3 yes no questions to the dead that can be ignored or answered with lies. Best case scenario where a role like this doesn't get exed or NK'd, they get a revive off the first night kill on C4. There's just too many variables for my tastes. We got Rioters, a Lookout, an Action Mimic, an Action Stealer, an Action Redirector, a Action Swapper, an Action Gifter (apparently), etc etc. I don't care about entertaining the possibility of this anymore. It's just not plausible. Archer's role and literally every other role claim we have received just do not exist in the same game. I just can't see it. Even the neutral claims we got make more sense than this. I am the king of fictional role claims. It is one of the staples of my gameplay from either alignment, when the need arises. And I really don't think this is legit. I need coffee.
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I'm not really interested in debating it tbh, so I'm just gonna say my piece, go cook a quick dinner, and get ready for bed. Could Archer be Village and be honest about his role? I really, severely doubt it. On D1 he called his role an "overglorified vanilla" and I find that telling considering the details he's revealing now. I'm sure he'll say something like "Well, I had to keep the important part of my role a secret so the elims wouldn't kill me. Make it look weaker, y'know?" I do know. And I have considered it. And I don't even think I care. No single role is so important that we lose if they die. Period. Especially not in a game where the Village has no idea who we are supposed to be voting because we're getting zero alignment flips from the exe. Archer's role is completely alone in apparently interacting with this mechanic after 14/21 total role claims (not counting the 2 Regulars, leaving 5 unclaimed), the only proof of his role we can get is from his word alone, and the one thing that has been proven to always appear in write-ups is Roles. If Archer is Village, he should be voting himself today. Plain and simple. He should be able to understand how completely bonkers his role is for anyone to trust, whether or not he is honest, because it's completely unverifiable. There are no alignment scanners, no role scanners, and the exe is only giving us half of the information. So if Archer's role provides concrete information on why we aren't getting the other half that's missing - the MOST important half - rather than just word of mouth, then it's straight up the only real shot we have at solving this game. Once the Village has that role in the write-up, we can actually hone in on what the heck is going on in this game. Without it, what the heck are we supposed to do? Cannibalize each other and never know who is who? Yeah, I'm sure that's what the elims want too. Archer. Everyone has a color in our GM PM, yes. The problem is when people die, that color isn't being revealed to the public. How do you know he's not lying? What has he done or can he do in the future that proves his role at all?
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I may have misunderstood your initial claim of that as saying your role PM had a color, not that your role guarantees an alignment flip. Is that what you're saying? ED1T: Oh hi Ash xD
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Operative: "if" their alignment is not revealed. Write-Ups: Hello roles no alignment. Ability: Ask the dead 3 questions. Catch: PAFO if they can lie or not. Purpose: ???
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???
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So you're telling me your death isn't the best course for the Village after 3 cycles with no flips, Archer? Like, if the roles were reversed and I was the supposed Medium claiming all these things and you were, well, literally any other role in the game that had no intrinsic knowledge of the lack of flip, you wouldn't be gunning for me to?
