Brgst13

I had assumed that the inclusions were aluminum, explaining why he could not hear the Rhythms. This would give him protection against Shardblades and Surgebinding. Although probably not against Nightblood.

This just occurred to me: Nightblood is able to take steps like talk to people to get them to move him to where he needs/wants to be. How does he know for example that the fisherman will take him to where someone else would take him to Vasher? In light of the WoB above, it might be possible that Nightblood is not pure steel but a steel/atium hybrid. This would explain the Ruin aspect, as well as why the smoke is black.

I would say that yes, their economy is stable. Much as the trade in Tyrrhenian purple (spelling?) propped up the Phoenecian economy, so can the Tears of Edgli people up Hallendran. In addition, these dyes have significance beyond just coloring cloth, as they are an excellent source for Awakening. As someone suggested earlier, this moves them into the military realm. The economy is clearly strong, as they can afford to house the Court of the Gods and its inhabitants in an insane level of luxury.

Things we know: 1. The imprisonment of BAM hurt the Sibling more than the Stormfather or the Nightwatcher. 2. The Sibling was created to bring humans into harmony with Honor. 3. The effects of the Recreance have a parallel with Elantris. 4. Melishi was necessary for the capture of BAM, and the plan involved the nature of the Heralds and their divine duties. 5. Kalak claims that the event broke him. 6. The Heralds are inversions of their personalities. 7. The Oathpact keeps the Heralds as Cognitive Shadows, and is at least partially still functioning. 8. The spren chose to take part in the Recreance but did not expect to die. 9. The Singers are closer to the Cognitive Realm than humans. What can we infer from this? Well, in the Elantrian example, the change in the shape of Elantris blocked the flow of the Dor and prevented the transformation into a full Elantrian. What would be the parallel to the Chasm on Roshar? First, let's examine the effects. The Singers were not only bereft of the forms of power, they were bereft of all forms and cut off from the Rhythms of Roshar. Gavilar was astonished to see the Listeners able to hum the same rhythm in time when at great distances, so this could not be a Parshman trait. Second, something changed in the Heralds. The Heralds appeared to be sane after the abandonment of the Oathpact, but insane by the time of the Prologue. Age alone does not appear to cause insanity, based on Hoid who is much older than the Heralds and what we know of Kelsier. This effect can be reversed when a Perpendicularity is opened, or when a KR swears an oath, both of which bring the three Realms together. Third, there was a change in spren that affected how they behaved after oaths were broken. It seems that in the past, spren whose Radiants broke their Oaths reverted to the Cognitive Realm, where their minds could still function. Now it seems that the spren are largely locked in the Physical Realm as a Shardblade, and their minds no longer function. We know that Spren brought into the Physical realm die rather quickly, so the deadeyes are still anchored in the Cognitive, but they cannot think or function, and will follow commands as Shardblades in a way similar to a slave form Parshendi. We also know that Forms of Power do not require Odium or BAM, since Venli achieved Stormform simply by bonding a stormspren. So what did Melishi do? It seems that there were two parts to what happened: the imprisonment of BAM and the removal of forms of power. We know how the first can be done; we saw it with Neragoul and Re-Shepir. Imprisoning BAM might not be sufficient to remove the Forms of Power. The Singers Connected to BAM were all disconnected violently. The effects of this hit the spren, Heralds, and Connected parshmen. The connections were broken, the Heralds were inverted, and spren were largely trapped in solid rather than gaseous investiture. Melishi was the Sibling's Bondsmith, and likely knew about pure tones. My theory is that Melishi either inadvertently or intentionally blocked spren from hearing Odium's tone and in the process also blocked Honor and Cultivation's.

I would be here for kelsier Ambition scheming against Taravangodium.

Thanks! I missed that one, that is an important point. Although it does agree with my explanation for the WoB you quoted earlier.

Can you cite where the Sibling lost both tones? I haven't been able to confirm this. Also that WoB has some vagueness in the second answer. The question was if all spren lost the ability to hear Honor's tone. His response of not necessarily could indicate that some spren never heard it in the first place (voidspren?). I feel like I am almost able to describe what happened to Roshar with the imprisonment of BAM, but there are a few mechanical details I am trying to iron out. For me, the really interesting line is from Kalek: "As one who it broke...". This suggests that the imprisonment of BAM may have been the event that caused the Heralds' insanity, not the alteration of the Oathpact. In addition to the Heralds' insanity, it seems as if this is roughly when Honor ordered the Oathgate spren closed. These things, taken together, suggest that the transition from Physical to Cognitive was altered in some way.

I think that the argument around seons is from the right book but wrong example. Instead, I think we are looking at something similar to the Shaod. A person is improperly connected to the Dor, and cannot complete the transformation to an Elantran. Likewise, a Spren is improperly Connected to Roshar, resulting in their being unable to survive the breaking of a Radiant bond. I think, then, that just as the Chasm forming blocked the flow of the Dor to Elantrans, the imprisonment of BAM blocked Honor's tone from the inhabitants of Roshar.

My theory is that Fortune is basically the ability to see/manipulate probability. We have a few examples of using Fortune: 1. Hoid sensing where he needs to be. 2. F-Chromium storing "luck". 3. Renarin and Odium's futures Ishtar. Each of these can be viewed as an effect of probability. 1. Hoid can sense where improbable things are possibly happening and go there to either help or prevent its happening. 2. Luck in cards or bones or such is simply having better outcomes with random chance than opponents. Luck in life can be seen as either avoiding likely negative outcomes or achieving unlikely positive outcomes. When storing F-chromium you would not be likely to win games of chance, and you would often get caught in the rain. When tapping it, you would be more likely to fall and land just right to avoid breaking bones. 3. Futuresight simply allows the user to see possibilities. Renarin sees likely possibilities, while Odium sees a vast array. So why is Renarin grayed out to Odium? Simple. He can change the probability of events by seeing the future, so he makes the predictions based on probability null and void. Let me know if there are gaping holes in this theory or if it is contradicted elsewhere.

I think the Aonic Intent aspect is that you have to draw the aon with the intent of accessing the Dor. That way, if a child were to accidentally scribble Aon Teo in the air, they won't be transported God knows where.

I don't think that putting reflected light through a prism would give off an altered spectrum. The key to the prism experiment seems to be that Investiture is emitting photons directly rather than merely reflecting incoming photons. On the issue of light being contained in gems, you are assuming that there is an Investiture to energy conversion producing the visible light. It could also be that as Investiture is added to the gem, electrons in the gem are excited by a given wavelength, and as they return to normal energy levels they emit the absorbed energy as a photon of visible light, much like fluorescence does. This would allow light production without Investiture loss.

Elsecalling could possibly allow targeted nuclear strikes from the Cognitive realm, where an Elsecaller could reach out from the Cognitive realm and Soulcast a critical mass of rock into plutonium, causing a runaway reaction.

I suspect there is more here. Just remember, never believe anything a Herald says. Ever.

Kaladin will take up War in my opinion is foreshadowed by several things: 1. Kaladin is the "son of Tanavast" and has connected with Odium in RoW. 2. Dalinar describes him as "our best soldier", suggesting that he is good at War. 3. Kaladin is a total hard-luck case. He just realized that there are more important things for him than fighting, so becoming the embodiment of War would fit perfectly with his storyline.

1. Why are we assuming Rosharans are antagonists? I thought this was going to be more "culture clash" than "good vs. bad". 2. I think that Cultivation is foreshadowing how Dalinar can win the contest. Rayse was clear that he followed the spirit of oaths, not the letter. Taravangian is scheming to find any way he can to escape the contract he signed, or to find an alternate condition between winning and losing. What if the way Dalinar can win...is to Bind Taravangian to Honor? Taravangian is good at passionate and scheming. He is not good at the direct, face to face conflict of War. This might set up a conflict between the Shard and its holder that could allow Taravangian to be killed, and Kaladin to take up the Shard of War.

I think the gem archive proves this. Chapter 68 of Oathbringer: Chapter 70: Chapters 80-81: Given that the first two are from drawer 1, and the last 2 from drawer 30, it seems to strongly indicate that the Sibling was withdrawing prior to the capture of BAM. I am assuming that the drawers are in chronological order.

I had assumed that the second advance meant it was the second land they conquered.

I would counter with the epigraph from RoW, chapter 26: Harmony draws a clear distinction between what happened on Scadrial when and what happened when Odium destroyed Dominion and Devotion. Given that Harmony has the knowledge of two Shards, it seems that he sees a clear difference in the two.

I have to philosophically disagree with you here. If I shatter a glass, the pieces all still exist, but I would say the glass does not. While it could be put back together, it would not be the same glass; something has to fill the gaps between the pieces.

I think this is the result of Nightblood killing in all 3 realms. He simultaneously destroys the Spiritual aspect and the Cognitive aspect. When the collection of atoms making up an entity no longer sees itself as that entity, and the Spiritweb is destroyed, there is nothing left to hold the atoms of that entity together. Since most entities we have seen appear to be carbon-based, the smoke released from this is black from the esoteric release of carbon. Alternately, the black smoke may be the leftovers from an entity's Spiritweb after encountering Nightblood's corrupted Investiture.

What is your source for this? I always took this to mean that the Shard itself was damaged, where a chunk of power might have been ripped off.

I'm going to do some wild theorizing here, so hold on: First, spren exist mostly in the Cognitive realm. When they bond a Radiant, the spren is pulled into the physical realm. This mechanism is clearly still working. Second, when a Radiant dies, the spren either returns to the Cognitive realm or bonds a new Radiant. We saw this with the one Honorspren in WoR. Third, when an oath is broken, the spren's body materializes as a Shardblade. At least part of the Cognitive aspect returns to the Cognitive realm as a deadeye. We see this with both Maya and Testament. Fourth, this separation of physical and Cognitive did not occur prior to the Recreance. The spren expected pain, but not death. Fifth, this is roughly the same time at which Cuseicash the Protector began to appear. This megaspren appears at the same time every day, and looks toward the Origin. It drains something from each person who views it. Sixth, this is similar to the Shaod, where the Elantrians were trapped midway through transformation. Seventh, this all began at approximately the same time as BAM was captured. Eighth, Honor's tone was silenced that day. Based on this, we can draw a few conclusions: 1. Whatever happened has blocked the ability of a spren to fully transition back to the Cognitive realm when oaths are broken. 2. This is related to the capture of BAM. In order to do this, Melishi had to understand BAM to a very large degree. 3. At roughly the same time, Cusiecash began appearing and displaying a series of faces. This spren faces the Origin, which is connected to the highstorms and by extension to Honor. 4. Therefore, we can conclude that the capture of BAM somehow damaged the Connection of all spren to Honor's tone. 5. My theory out of all this is as follows: Melishi swapped BAM's Connection to Odium for Honor, and used that to imprison her. When doing so, though, Melishi unknowingly damaged the conduit that Connected the spren to Honor, prohibiting their return to the Cognitive Realm. The part of the spren that was not able to return formed Cusiecash, where they display the faces of their Radiants. These spren are trying to draw out Investiture to rebuild the Connection to Honor. The Recreance occurred because this severing also removed Honor's restrictions on Surgebinding. The spren, seeing what was to come and what had happened on Ashyn, chose to break their bonds rather than allow unchecked Surgebinding.

This was the WoB I was thinking of, just needed to dig it up. Pretty clear that CSs are tied to their systems.

Agreed, but what about all the regular Breaths? And what about his Connection as a Cognitive Shadow?

I have to disagree with this, the Investiture is connected to Endowment, and she is connected to Nalthis. I wonder, though, if with enough Breaths Vasher could Awaken a rock or other item with a Command such as "Become as Nalthis and Connect me." He could then take that object with him as his Connection