FeatherWriter

Welcome @Thread89. Please try to avoid double posting. If you need to quote more than one person, you can use the "Multiquote" button (the plus at the bottom of each post). If you need to add to what you previously published, please use "Edit." That said, I'll admit I'm not overly fond of the Jasnah and Kaladin ship. I think their age difference is a bit wide for me, and I don't really think they have much in common. The conversation in Oathbringer seemed to be a confirmation that they are wildly different people who aren't going to get along very well and that it'll be a struggle for them to work together.

That feels like it's backwards to me, Blight, since then Renarin would be the only Voidbinder we see and his situation is obviously weird. We've got that whole chart of Voidbinding powers but the weird corruption situation is the only thing that actually qualifies? It seems more likely that there's different orders of powers like we see with the Fused that match that chart, which means that the Fused would be the Voidbinders.

And is also very used to wearing a uniform, while most of the rest of Bridge 4 live in the barracks and were bridgemen before this. Hygiene is still probably not something they all care about very much aside from probably Sigzil.

Looking forward to it, Bleeder. As Argent said though, I don't think Lightspren are the Truthwatcher spren, despite the fact that they look like light. If it's a spren we've already seen, Mistspren seem to be a more likely candidate, but Brandon has said that he's not ready to canonize which spren the Truthwatchers have yet. Though I admit the expressions of Illumination tend to be a bit less well defined, I do think both the Adolin scene and the Thunderclast scene are Illumination. We've seen that illusions scare off some kinds of voidish entities from the way that Shallan fights them, and even though it's not a very nuanced used, I think that's what the light that Renarin uses is. Also I am fairly convinced that the Truthwatcher resonance has nothing to do with visions, but is actually an ability to see the truth of situations. Renarin early on seems to be aware of who really killed Sadeas. Stump says that she can always tell when the kids are lying to her and faking, and there's a quote from the in-world Words of Radiance that says: "their silence was not a sign of exceeding abundance of disdain, but rather an exceeding abundance of tact." Tact, because they know what's really happening but choose to politely not air everyone's dirty laundry for the sake of everyone getting along. I feel like I'm developing a little mini-theory that certain orders find certain Surges easier than others. Shallan picks up Illumination far faster than Transformation. Skybreakers learn Gravitation much faster than Division, to the point of being forbidden to use Division before their third oaths. Kaladin uses Adhesion naturally but isn't able to get Gravitation down until he sees the example from Szeth. Lift has Abrasion down pat, but has to be coached through using Progression by Wyndle, who also says that Regrowth would be too hard for her (though she later figures it out in a moment of desperation). And all three of the Truthwatchers we see use Regrowth easily, yet none of the three seem to dabble with Illumination very deeply on screen. Ym used his Progression intentionally but Stump healed unconsciously. I think the same is happening with Renarin, who finds Progression just easier than Illumination, but still has that surge and will be able to use it in time.

Feather was a bad gamma reader and only caught this mistake after the gamma read was finished. Oops. My bad.

A uniqueness in appearance is something that all Shardblades share. They're all very distinctive. Though the forged folds style could be significant, it could also just be the way that the Glysblade looks. It could be the bands of corruption mixed with regular spren power. I'm liking more and more the idea that Glys was a willing participant in his corruption. Makes me wonder what Sja-anat could have said in order to convince a Radiant spren to submit to the power of an Unmade like that. Or maybe she did it without asking, but helped convince Glys that it was a good thing later? I'm really curious to see what Glys says about her or how they'd interact.

So let’s talk Renarin, shall we? Now, if you fine folks are anything like myself, you might have found yourself confused by some of the reveals that Oathbringer brought about regarding Renarin and his powers. This was a twist that I saw coming a long way off, and so I was more than ready when we found out that Renarin had been affected by a voidish corruption and that this was the reason for his strange and ominous visions. If you’d like to see how WoR foreshadowed this moment, you can check out my theory Renarin’s Visions and Truthwatching and see all the reasoning for this twist. However, what I want to do here today is get into the nitty gritty of what’s really going on. Is Renarin a Voidbinder or a Surgebinder or both? Is Glys a Voidspren? How do the visions work? How did this happen? All those good questions are the ones that I’d like to try to tackle here. Theory Disclaimer: Most of these things have not been confirmed in canon and Brandon has been cagey about answering or confirming. However, this explanation is the one which seems most plausible to me based on the evidence at hand. So let me do a bullet point run-down of what I think is happening: Glys is actually a valid Truthwatcher spren, not a voidspren. Renarin is a valid Truthwatcher Radiant and therefore a Surgebinder with access to the surges of Progression and Illumination. Renarin uses Stormlight to power his surges, just like other Radiants. Glys has been corrupted by the Unmade Sja-anat. As a result of this corruption, in addition to his normal Truthwatcher powers, Renarin is afflicted by involuntary visions of the future which neither he nor Glys can control. The points above are those that I feel are fairly concrete, and I’ll go into the reasoning behind those ideas later below. However, upon this assumed situation, I believe that the following ideas are viable possibilities. The following points are less certain than those above, but these are the ideas that seem the most plausible to me, given the circumstances: The powers that the Fused display are expressions of Voidbinding. Renarin’s future visions are possibly also an expression of Voidbinding, but his other powers are not. If Renarin’s Voidbinding and Fused Voidbinding work in the same way, it is possible that all Voidbinding powers come from the influence of the Unmade, in that Sja-anat can grant Voidish future visions while other Unmade grant different powers, like illusions, frictionlessness, or gravity, as we see other Fused use. And upon these assumptions, we find several questions arise regarding the nature of the situation: If both Renarin and the Fused are Voidbinders, is a spren involved in the granting of Voidbinding powers to the Fused in the same way they were granted to Renarin? If Voidish powers are each affiliated with an Unmade, why are there seemingly 10 powers on the Voidbinding chart if there are only 9 Unmade? Does Odium grant a Bondsmith equivalent himself? If Voidbinding powers are not granted by the Unmade, how are they gained? In what way are Renarin and the Fused similar in situation that grants them the same powers? What caused the hypergraphia that accompanied the visions of the Everstorm, and why does that no longer happen when Renarin gets visions? All of which are fascinating, but unfortunately, more likely to get a RAFO than an answer in a signing line. The first I have already asked and been RAFO’d and I believe the others are going to be answered similarly, if attempted. If I had to guess, these are reveals that will happen in Renarin’s flashback book. Considering that book is in the back five, we’ve probably got a while to wait. Alas. Regardless, no use fretting over the information we don’t have when it’s so much more fun to dissect the information we do have. And Oathbringer certainly gave us plenty to dissect. So, let’s take the situation that I’ve outlined above and break it down with some textual evidence to help explain where these ideas come from. Glys the Truthwatcher spren and Renarin the Radiant This is one of the easiest points to guess, considering the wealth of information we have on the topic. A lot of this is due to the Renarin point of view chapters in Part 5. (Thank you, Brandon, I owe you my soul for those.) Renarin’s surges seem to work perfectly normally. He heals people with Regrowth at several points in the novel, fairly naturally. I believe we see a slight, unconscious use of Illumination in the scene with Adolin and Gallant, when Renarin makes a perfected vision of Adolin appear. Renarin also mentions trying to train with Shallan in using Illumination, but he has difficulty with it. Now, it could be assumed that Renarin’s failure to grasp Illumination is a sign that his surges are wrong, and yet I think this is simply another example of a Radiant finding one surge more easy to pick up than another. Shallan is naturally better at Illumination than Transformation. Lift is better at Abrasion than Progression. It seems common enough that Radiants have an affinity for one of their surges over the other. For Renarin, I believe this is that Progression is easier than Illumination. In addition to his surges, Renarin’s other expressions of Radiant abilities seem normal. Glys is able to form as a Shardblade, which no one deems as looking out of the ordinary. It also functions to open Oathgates. His healing factor works as the other Radiants’, albeit augmented by his power of Progression to make healing extremely rapid. Most tellingly, his powers use Stormlight, just as all the others do. Ivory says that there is a rightness to the bond between Renarin and Glys and that spren of Odium should not be able to bond with humans under normal circumstances. Through all of these things, one can assume that Renarin and Glys have a valid Nahel bond and are bonded as Radiant and spren, just as the others are. Sja-anat’s Corruption However, in addition to the normal suite of a Truthwatcher’s powers and the Nahel bond, there is another factor in the mix: Sja-anat. When Sja-anat speaks with Shallan she speaks of her son when telling Shallan that she is not an enemy, as though he would vouch for her. This is undoubtedly Glys. It’s interesting to note that this seems to indicate that Glys is working with Sja-anat, possibly willingly. Perhaps she approached a Radiant spren hoping that by giving changing one of them, she would have an ally who would help the Radiants trust her. Or perhaps it’s something else. Hard to say at this point. Regardless, it is because of this that Renarin can see the future, and why he is consumed with visions. Though it is possible that other Truthwatchers have a manner of foresight, I don’t believe it would manifest as Renarin’s does. Ivory states that future sight is a power of Odium, as the Vorins believe. I believe Sja-anat has been hoping to swap sides and is using Glys as a way to do it, as well as helping Shallan instead of killing them when they went through the Oathgate. Voidbinding So in the end, what is Voidbinding? Hard to say with certainty, since despite how often we see Voidbinders, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of answers about it. Working under the assumption that the Fused’s powers are Voidbinding we can see a few things, at least: Voidbinding seems to line up with surges in many cases, as we see Fused manipulating gravity and friction, just like Kaladin and Lift. It’s hard to tell if this means that Renarin’s corrupted sight is also a form of Voidbinding as well, since it doesn’t seem to line up with a Surge the way the others are. The Listener Song of Secrets speaks of Nightform, a form of power which can see the future, which seems as though it might be more similar to what Renarin can do than anything else we’ve seen. The question is, Renarin is getting his void-powers from a corrupted spren, but I don’t believe that the Fused have a corrupted spren giving them powers, which initially made me think that Renarin’s visions were not Voidbinding like the Fused. Now, I’m not so sure. For the moment, I think I will lean toward the idea that Renarin’s visions and the powers of the Fused are both Voidbinding somehow, even if we don’t have details to confirm anything either way. There’s just not enough answers for the moment. Time will tell. If anyone can get answers out of Brandon regarding this topic, I’d be greatly appreciative but I doubt he’s going to answer things. Conclusion There’s a lot that we just don’t know yet, but I’m excited to see where this goes in the future. For now, this is my best guess at what’s really going on until we get some more information on all of it. One thing that hasn’t changed is that I adore Renarin with all of my heart and somehow Brandon continues to write his plotline and character arc in ways which are intensely fascinating to me. Oathbringer has been a triumph and I can’t wait to see what’s in store!

I have a post that I'm working on right now that should help outline my thoughts on what I believe is going on with Renarin and Glys. Soon!

@DiamondMind @Dlyol So, while there's a lot of speculation in this theory that wasn't necessarily right, the heart of the theory and its foundational aspect was that Renarin's visions were not a normal expression of Surgebinding and were probably voidish in nature. Which, yep. Nailed it. It's still possible that other Truthwatchers might have had a method of foresight or that their Illumination might work differently from Lightweavers or stuff like that but at this theory's heart, it was correct. Renarin's visions are not natural Surgebinding, and Oathbringer confirms it!

=== OATHBRINGER SPOILERS START HERE. THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN MOVED === Where there is great theory, there must also be great bragging and therefore please allow me to say: I FREAKING CALLED IT! From what I see, this theory is case closed as of Oathbringer and is proven right. Now, as for the specifics for what is actually happening with Renarin as of the end of OB, I am going to type up my thoughts on that subject in another thread, since this theory is done with! But yes, for the mean time, consider this my warning that I will be utterly insufferable about calling this reveal for at least the next... ...forever. Did anyone else see it coming as you were going through Oathbringer, or did Sanderson manage to convince you otherwise?

Download, flip, zoom. Edit: This is about the size I had it. Still pretty blurry but at that point it's more getting a feel off the shapes than actually reading them. Brains are good at pattern recognition, so don't think too hard and see what comes to you.

I'll give it a shot. Brackets indicate things I'm not sure of. @Calderis fite me

Another one I caught tonight on a reread is that on the assault on the Tower, the two armies are described as such: "On the nearby staging plateaus, thousands upon thousands of soldiers in blue or red were gathered, one color per plateau." (pg. 894, Chapter 65) Sadeas' Shardplate is red, which is how I assume this mistake was made, but Sadeas' house colors are white and green, not red. A passage later in that chapter confirms it: "The Parshendi had noticed what was happening and had begun to put pressure on the small company in green and white that Sadeas had sent to defend his entry area." (pg. 898)

@yulerule If you're curious about the basis of Renarin theorization, characterization, and hype, I would be happy to indulge that, though I won't derail the thread to do so. As @DSC01 said, there's quite a bit of nuance on his character and we know more about him than you might expect. He's easy to miss, but he's certainly not incomprehensible. Also, I've kept most of my talk to the Discord thread because chat is easier than forums, but I'll say this. That chapter is Shallan's POV and I don't think that's insignificant in terms of the way Renarin is portrayed in it. To pull a quote from a good friend of mine regarding Renarin's so-called "creepiness" in this chapter: "Renarin is socially awkward in a way that makes him hard to read, Shallan is defensive and deeply traumatized and paranoid." (I'm trying to be good but I gotta defend my fave, y'all. I gotta. He's my boy.)

Alethi names have meaning and are made of prefixes and suffixes. Or, at least the ones that sound like lighteyes' names do. Brandon revealed at a signing that Kaladin's name means "Born unto eternity."

A quick note, Glys's pronouns are he/him.

Quick Mod Note: please don't post multiple times in a row. If you need to respond to multiple people, use the "+" button beside "Quote" to do a multiquote post. Thanks! Also, I love these chapters, they're just so good. Definitely upvoted the sentiment that there's not enough Renarin though. There's never enough Renarin for me.

@Hoids Imaginary Friend I've consolidated your posts into one and hidden the others. Please do not post multiple times. If you need to add something else onto your post, please use the "Edit" button. Thank you. Also, I believe Brandon has debunked the idea that the genders of Nahel bond spren are related to a Radiant's sexuality.

I could, but I didn't come up with it! It's @Necessary Eagle's idea, I can't just steal it for myself. Also, I always gotta not-so-subtly poke at people to make their own decks when they get good ideas. The more cards the merrier, right?

Omh, Shards Against Humanity is such a good name, holy Harmony. Someone has to make a deck with that immediately. Please. I beg of you.

Oh I see I have been tagged. Funnily enough... I probably wouldn't date Renarin. I think I'd be very bad for him oops!

Mm, that last card. Real.

Careful with that. One of Brandon's recommendations for how to become a beta is "Don't Bug Peter."

Or rather, Feather is exploding, but currently only in special beta-reader approved areas!