FeatherWriter

Chances are likely that I and my housemate will be at the San Antonio signing, if anyone will be attending there! Finally, a stop in Texas that only requires me driving five hours to go to... It's funny, I heard some people on other sites complainng that Texas got three stops, but well... we're kind of huge. Even the nearest to me is 5 hours away. On the tours where he only hits Houston that'd be closer to 8 hours for me. Texas, why must you be so gigantic?

This is... an utterly fascinating theory and I think I'm going to espouse it. I'm at least headcanoning it as true until proven otherwise. What a fabulous explanation. I don't necessarily think that the comparison is apt. Martial-Sibling-Scholar-Sibling isn't really the crux of the issue here. Venli's actions are less motivated by her status as a scholar or even over any kind of envy for her sister. She's driven by a kind of ruthless ambition, which is something that Renarin just doesn't have. I don't think there's much chance that he would follow in Venli's footsteps.

From my perspective, Kelsier is dead. If anyone's not doing death correctly, it's Kell himself. Cognitive Shadows are not alive to me. They are within the scope of the afterlife and are no longer living. I don't believe that the Beyond is oblivion, because I don't see much reason or proof that it might be. The Shards seem to think that there's something there, and I'm inclined to trust them, for the most part. Besides, Kelsier and the other souls feel a pull towards it. I don't feel like utter annihilating nothingness would draw people to it. Unless it was some kind of cosmic spiritual black hole I guess. But I don't believe that because, though Brandon is great at yanking our emotions, I feel like "there is no happy afterlife and all your faves who died are destroyed and no longer exist" isn't an emotion yank, it's just bad. These characters go through enough. I think they get a happy eternity. However, returning to Kelsier, and staying on topic. Feel free to provide quotes if I'm misremembering, but I didn't get the sense that Kelsier was afraid of the Beyond. Not at first and not when Vin and Elend and the others left. If anything, at first he seemed annoyed by it. "No I still have things I want to do, where's the snooze button on the afterlife???" sort of thing. With Vin and Elend he doesn't try to panickedly convince them "No! Stop! You don't know what's out there! What if you're gone forever? You should stay with me!" He seems more bewildered that they don't want to stay like he does, but he certainly doesn't seem to think they're "dying" again by moving on to the Beyond. His concern is that they're not going to be with him rather than that they're going to cease existing. Anyway, from what I saw, Kelsier doesn't seem to be afraid of the Beyond so much as he doesn't want to be inconvenienced by it. That quote is, by the way, Purelake, my reasoning that Vin thinks Kelsier should move on. I love the way she phrases it, "you have a lot to learn" like she's speaking to a child. As though his insistence on clinging to the Cognitive Realm is childish and immature, but she can't really fault him for not really understanding. (geeettttt reeekkkkttttttttt) It's beautiful, honestly. Go Vin. I'm in total agreement with her.

Well looks like this topic garnered some discussion while I was gone. I'm not going to quote people because it'd be forever, but for the most part, I find myself agreeing greatly with Pathfinder and masaru. Kelsier's primary motivation is self and ego. Even his great sacrifice in TFE is self-driven. It's a revenge scheme against the Lord Ruler, in order to hurt him the way Kelsier himself was hurt. Kelsier is far less concerned about the skaa themselves and more focused on the Empire. There is, of course, no getting around the fact that this great revenge scheme of his involved intentionally setting himself up as a deity for the skaa to worship. It's not like Survivorism happened by accident because Kelsier did such great things that they revered him. He made sure they were going to see him as a god after he was gone. Vin, I've found, is exceptionally skilled at tearing through the lies that he tells himself and cutting to the quick of the matter. She does it brilliantly, as masaru mentioned, at the end of Secret History, but she's been doing it from the very start. Vin loves Kelsier, but unlike most people, she doesn't get fully taken in by his grandiose persona and charisma. She's exceptionally good at seeing what's really going on with him and calling him out on it. Thus when she calls him out at the end of Secret History, I was cheering along, because she knows what's up. (get rekt kell) I think we're all aware of just how vicious Kelsier's dark side is too. When Kelsier sees skaa suffering and being hurt, his thought process isn't "I need to help them" it's "I need to hurt the person who did this." There's a vast difference. We see it in his very first scene in the skaa hovel. When the skaa girl gets taken, Kelsier doesn't just go rescue her, he goes and kills the nobleman, all of his house guards, and then burns the mansion to the ground. He can justify the way he enjoys killing and such by saying that they deserve it or that they're bad people, but the fact of the matter is Kelsier takes great pride and pleasure in the destruction he wreaks. Ruin's right, Kelsier is very much his creature. Honestly the most telling thing to me is that Kelsier doesn't even really try to justify his decision at the end of Secret History with any kind of altruism or selflessness. He doesn't say "I must stay because the people still need me" or "Preservation charged me with guarding the hearts of men." I think I'd be fine if those were his reasons for staying. He doesn't stay to help the Southern Scadrians, even if that may be what ends up happening. The fact that some good came out of the decision doesn't inherently mean that the decision wasn't selfish (and in my opinion, dumb.) But it's not. He stays because he wants to figure out hemalurgy and the cosmere, as though the world is just some puzzle for him to solve. Kelsier can't let go of the fact that there's always another secret and he needs to be the one to find it. Which, you know what, if he wants to futz about in the Cognitive Realm and try to solve the mysteries of the universe, fine have fun. But when he starts conscripting others to this cause for no other reason than his own curiousity and vanity, I take issue. Especially when said cause apparently involves experimental hemalurgy. Maker's breath, I feel like I'm back in the Dragon Age fandom trying to argue with people that blood magic is a bad thing. Saze doesn't want him to stick around. Vin and Elend didn't want him to stick around. Spook is now the leader of the surviving Northern Scadrians and is tasked with rebuilding civilization. He has better things to do than try to build Kell a new body. But Kelsier uses his Connection with Spook, because Spook believes in him so truly, to serve his own ends and get the boy to do what he wants. /continues dumping salt in the thread until everyone has been smothered.

Rest assured, Splintercast for both Bands of Mourning and Secret History will be released as soon as we're through Shadows of Self!

Heh. If Kell wants to stick around so bad, let's ship him to Roshar and have him punch Odium in the face for a bit? I definitely agree that the events of Secret History were a good thing for Kelsier and that he's a lot more mature. Vin's absolutely beautiful callout of him at the end was probably a good thing too. But he didn't quite learn enough from it, I feel. It's still all about him. I hope that now in the future he's going to be more careful, especially considering Preservation's command to not toy with the hearts of men, but I don't know. The way he co-opts Spook for the mission of "figure out how to bring me back to life" when Spook has much better things to be doing, like say, leading all the survivors. And the way that he seems to immediately establish himself as the Sovereign to the Southern Scadrians. It makes me feel like he really hasn't learned as much as he needs to.

Admittedly, I realize this is a plot development that was bound to elicit ambivalent reactions from the fandom, but I have to come and represent my side, alright. Though I've found some people who are immediately on my side, there's a good majority who don't have any kind of problem with it. So, it falls to me to ask. Anyone else mad/frustrated/annoyed at Kelsier for sticking around? And I don't mean the first time. Honestly, he kind of owed it to the Original Crew to stick around and try to help prevent the end of the world, especially since he was partially to blame for all the Ruin stuff in the first place. But afterwards? The job's done, he did his part. Why in the world is he sticking around still? That question is entirely rhetorical of course. I know why he's doing it. Because he's Kelsier and he wants to continue Kelsiering for his own sense of adventure and fun. He's a dumb, selfish, ego baby who needs to learn when to move on and let go. I can't even be mad at Brandon for this development because it is so unabashedly Kelsier that I'm honestly mad at myself for being surprised. The fact that it's expected doesn't make it not dumb though. Go to the Beyond, Kell. Go see your wife, apologize to Dox, be with Vin and Elend. Leave Spook alone to rule the new world on his own and stop trying to get him to do Hemalurgy! Just... stop with everything that you're doing right now, okay? But no. Kelsier just has to keep going. Look, I love Kell as much as the next fan. He's wildly charismatic and entertaining, but there's no personal reason for him to keep meddling with everything! He's not even pretending to be altruistic here either. He doesn't tell Harmony that he's sticking around to help people or because he thinks the world still needs him. It's literally just that he wants to. He's meddling with the world and mucking things up for no better reason than that he's bored and he wants to. Quite honestly, I reached the end of the book and felt like an underpaid babysitter or something. Go to bed, Kelsier. It is long past time you were asleep. Leave your friends alone and go rest. Saze has this in hand. Marsh is helping him out. They've got the Kandra. You are no longer needed and you need to go. But as of Bands, I think we've got pretty good proof that he most certainly did not go and is sticking around and meddling, meddling, meddling. Even Sazed's on my side. I'm sure that's the reason he lied about Kell being able to come back. Because he knows that Kelsier needs to move on and this fixed fascination on returning is unhealthy and only going to lead to trouble. I just sit here thinking about the end like "Kelsier, why must you be this way, honestly????" Tangentally related: I found a thread I posted five years ago in which I stated that Kelsier coming back was a bad idea and definitely shouldn't happen. (From my own "Introduce Yourself" thread, actually.) Talk about a blast from the past... I like Vin and Elend moving on quite a bit more than my own old version, but still. Kelsier coming back is a bad idea and I'm mad at him for trying/doing it. Alright, I think that's enough salt for one intro thread, right? Tell me I'm not alone in this though. There's got to be others who think Kell's being an idiot in sticking around? Join my salt brigade, friends.

Yeah, we are, because I'm a lame who got distracted by shiny things like Secret History and playing DAI for the six bajillionth time. In hindsight, We decided it might be best to just let Bands have a week to itself before we jumped back into Splintercast!

Maker's breath I'd entirely forgotten about that. Dangit Brandon! I cannot believe he hid one all the way back there.

I was very much on Saze's side at the end of that. The most frustrating part of the book was Kelsier's insistence that he stick around into the Alloy Era. I'm just like... look, you did your thing, you helped save the world, you handed the power off to Vin. Now, your job is done, go to the Beyond and go see your wife and Vin and Elend, please. Deciding to stick around and chat with Spook... trying to get him to figure out Hemalurgy... trying to come back. It's all so... frustratingly in-character for Kelsier, but it makes me want to tear my hair out. I feel like Saze was thinking along the same lines as me, and didn't want to encourage this sort of "bad behavior" in Kelsier.

I went into this book 100% convinced that the Sovereign was Marsh and I am still not entirely convinced that he isn't, having finished. Having only one spiked eye is too big of a coincidence for it not to be Marsh. If anyone remembers, it was a minor detail at the end of HoA, but Vin pulled out one of Marsh's eye spikes. She was actually reaching down for the other one when she popped and Ascended. Marsh spends the entire fight with Elend with a hole in his head. Elend comments that he's able to see right through it. We know that Inquisitors can live while missing spikes, as long as it's not the lynchpin, and I think it's likely that the Sovereign is Marsh after he decided to tap gold and heal his eye, rather than sticking the spike back in. Now, as of Secret History, I think it's safe to say Kelsier is also somehow involved in the process. Seeing as Kelsier was able to talk to Spook via an earring, I'd guess that Marsh's spikes are enough to let Kell talk with him and or possibly control him. Maybe they share the body occasionally, with Marsh handing the reins over. Surely Kelsier does not actually possess his own brother against his will. Surely not. Not after what Marsh went through with Ruin. If Kell did anything of the sort, I would never forgive him. Now, worth noting that Marasi does see Marsh's face in AoL and she says that he has two spikes through his head. It's possible that he's made a fake spike, in the same way that Wayne did for the costume, or—Harmony forbid—he might have put it back in. I'd surely hope not though.

If you're talking about me, I must correct with that I am but a lowly moderator, far beneath the ranks of the Almighty Admins. And, isn't the great Dark Alley aware that all staff powers are granted through spikes already?

Ah, Nazh and Khriss! I had pinned the dancer as a worldhopper, but I didn't put together their identities. Always fun to see worldhoppers! On that note, I'm pretty sure Iyatil is a Southern Scadrian of some kind, and as she tells Shallan that she's Mraize's teacher, I'm guessing she's the one who shows him how to worldhop and such. I love masked societies and I'd really love to see some stuff from Southern Scadrial itself. Fingers crossed for the novella as soon as I can get my hands on it... (Curse you work days, keeping me from Splintercasting!) Currently, I'm leaning toward Marsh as our mysterious Sovereign, as we know one of his eye spikes was damaged in the fight with Vin. Inquisitors can live without certain spikes, as long as they're not the lynchpin, so it serves to make sense that if he removed an eyespike and tapped gold, he might be able to heal his eye back. Mostly, I don't want it to be Kelsier. I spent the last minute or so after reading that line whispering "no, no no no," to myself over and over again. We can't bring Kel back after all this time! It's funny, I threw out "huh, I wonder if Telsin is actually working for the Set" at the very beginning of the book, when the kandra show Wax that she's there. I felt extremely vindicated to have actually gotten it, especially because something seemed to be up with her most of the time. Way too bloodthirsty... I was rooting for Waxteris, WaynLaan, and Marasi/Allik (as soon as Allik came in) so it was very nice to see that those were all coming along, ship wise. Waxteris was utterly adorable all the way through this book and I melted every chapter. Steris in general was breathtakingly amazing. I never would have imagined that I would adore her so much upon first read. I've also decided to adopt Allik as my son, now, so there's that.

Bands of Mourning murdered me last night and kicked my cold dead corpse off a skyscraper. Which is to say, it was absolutely fantastic and the Splintercast recordings are going to be excessively entertaining upon completion, I'm sure.

*Editor's note: Not an actual boat. Nor is it an airship or spaceship. Spaceships aren't for many more books. -Eric *squints* Is that... an editor's note... on my description... explaining shipping? Harmony dangit. Truly 17S is an incomprehensible abyss. As for Tan, I've got a spoilery idea (for end of SoS) about it. In other news: Heck yeah Firefly is GREAT. Its cancellation is the great tragedy of our time. And while I definitely caught the Milan/MeLaan similarity... I promptly forgot about it and didn't actually speculate that Milan was MeLaan. Because I'm a dumbface. Does the hard part of catching the foreshadowing, misses the easy part.

Noooo Kads you'll only encourage me....

"So okay, to continue with my Dragon Age analogy that I'm definitely not going to turn into an AU" I'm pretty sure this quote sums up my entire existence. I already wrote a super long fic about the Stormlight crew in Thedas. I don't need another one!!!! Me @ me: like chill, tho pls. Be less garbage for four seconds, Feather.

The staff is fairly firm on not setting down a list of "you may only downvote a post if it contains X, Y, or Z" because that's not the way rep is intended to work. Aside from outright downvote abuse—getting other members to gang up on a member's post or wantonly downvoting just because you dislike someone—members may use upvotes and downvotes as they please. And with the new downvote quota, it's even more difficult for Perhaps downvoting someone just because you don't agree with them could be seen as petty or rude, it is not against the rules. If a user wants to downvote a post, it is their right to do so. Everyone is going to have a different philosophy of how the best way to upvote or downvote, and that's okay. The system is there to be used in the ways that members wish to use it.

*puts a hand over her Moderator badge and pulls her hair in front of her spikes* Ha... moderators? What moderators? I am but a humble denizen of 17S out with a mutual interest in benefitting fron the anguish and suffering of others baked goods.

Tagged: #fluff #hurt/comfort #cutes #happy ending #your OTP finally gets together #feel good #cuddles #happy fic #Tien is Alive The fic consists of 30K words of angst and tragedy, characters losing everything they held dear and being drawn to the brink of oblivion.

And how exactly have I been on this forum so long and only just now found out about the Dark Alley? The Fandom Monster is intrigued... What exactly is your policy on soul-rending alternate universes entirely crafted to evoke wailing and despair from all who interact with them?

The Iriali also have a metalic gold glint to their skin, but it's harder to see than the hair. We also know that Iriali often paint their skin different colors.

All attempts to keep Feather spoiler-free are greatly appreciated. Which is why I can never forgive fbstj for spoiling that there is no Renarin POV in Bands. WHY AM I READING IT THEN? (Oh right, for Steris)