Jondesu

Hey, I practically gave it away in the QF sign ups. I told you I wouldn't kill you D1 unless I had a really good reason.

I killed Ecth. My second order was spying on your PMs, but that turned out to be meaningless since the game ended at the time I would have gotten them.

Ack, and I just looked at the list. I was planning to use my kill tonight on Szeth, for the Crusade and on the off chance he was Preservation. AND HE WAS! Grr. Also, @Ecthelion III, I apologize for the day 1 kill, but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to maybe find Preservation, with the way you and Aman were talking. It didn't work out since Preservation wasn't actually even on the boards, but I thought it was a fairly good gambit, and then I got lucky with you being Skaa.

Wait, what? Is that a record for the fastest game? I'm sad, Preservation still lives. *gives a not quite evil grin*

Hopefully bleeder or someone else got to you already, but that one's "oh-dee-um".

I slept on the couch last night because my wife was throwing up repeatedly and we were trying to keep me well. My mom spent the night and has been here all day, and I'm getting more and more pissed off about...everything. So many things driving me crazy right now.

Bah, and ya'lls arguments of Bart's weird choice of announcing his partner not being an Elim-y move is also making sense. I've jumped on people for something strange they did C1 too often without any real evidence, and it doesn't usually work out. So, Bart. The problem is, I don't have anyone else I really want to throw a vote on. Maybe we could get away without a D1 lynch this game, but it does seem to often work out poorly.

I don't see how Terror could be considered a godly attribute, though, so it wouldn't make sense.

Actually,

I was considering it, HH, but I have more justification to vote for Bart right now I think. His claim of a night partner gives me hesitation, since I'd hate to lose Aman, but it's also a very weird choice that makes me think he's just trying to gain trust.

I have to take issue with this. Preservation couldn't create, but clearly Preservation's power can do many things he couldn't directly, as evidenced by TLR, Kelsier, Vin, Wax, etc, who are all able to destroy and do all manner of non-Preservation things with Preservation's power (through Allomancy). Pushing the planet around and changing microorganisms is certainly not Preserving either, so we know that the power of the Well can be used without requiring one to follow Preservation's Intent.

@Amanuensis, I'm the kandra that Elenion passed the message to (I wasn't planning to reveal my role, but at this point I think it'll probably help, considering the discussion around this). I will confirm that I was told that Rand was a kandra and looking to coordinate with other kandra. I didn't know that Rand was in contact with Mage, however (@Elenion can back that up, for his PM with me). Also, I hate to be low-active, but my wife is sick and I'm going to be busy probably over the next day or two at least, so while I'll probably check the thread when I can, don't expect a lot of posts from me.

Wait, @Bartimaeus, are you publicly claiming that Aman is your night partner? That's... a bold move if so. I can't imagine any good reason to do that, in fact.

Thorot cleaned the grit off his knife (he ended up with all sorts of things between his teeth sometimes) and scanned the passersby. Many of the Ghostbloods (or perhaps those storming Sons of Honor, and he'd weed them out if so) had gathered out in the main road, looking as if they were just going about their business, many of them only talking when necessary. That odd Harvey was walking around, too…stiff, he supposed. Might be a cover, but it might just be an awkward person. Then again, an awkward Ghostblood was usually going to end up being a dead Ghostblood. Sart was still killing the eardrums of anyone nearby, and shooting glares at Bart occasionally. That was one rivalry that he wouldn't mind seeing ended, if only to stop the singing. Most of the others were just lurking in doorways like Thorot, or casting furtive glances around as they made their way to one destination or another. Thorot caught the eye of the odd Harvey and called out a question. "Harvey, you're walking around and looking us all over, but you haven't offered any comment of your own. Are you going to help us find the traitors among us? How many do you think there are? Brandir says there's probably two Sons of Honor wandering among us, learning all our plans, and Mestow agrees, but maybe there's more. Maybe you're one of them?" Just a quick note, I'm not planning to do everything in RP this game, and probably very little of the discussion, but since D1 lynches are so weird anyways, I figured I'd use the RP to call out HH and ask a question (legitimately ask, I want to see his thoughts on the number of Elims and also whether he thinks it matters to know in this game). I'm not stuck on him by any means and will change my vote if anything comes up that seems suspicious enough, but HH had only posted RP without any other discussion (granted, it's D1, but he posted early and didn't even comment on the rules, suggest any tactics, etc). For my part, I'll be trying to link pairs of Night and Day players in any way I can, from similar arguments to the people that seem to have similar knowledge that wasn't shared publicly. If I can be reasonably certain about that, it'll make it easier to rule out pairs based on how suspicious I am of one of the members, or conversely, bring more suspicion on some pairs because of the way both partners are acting. I don't think I'll be revealing my own partner here, especially without confirming it with them, because I can't see that being a good tactic, but if anyone does share, it'll just make it a bit easier to nail down those pairs. I doubt anyone could get away with lying about that, anyway, since it'd be really easy for someone to call them out on it. I'll probably look through the ruleset and see if there's any roles that should be doing anything unusual, but they're mostly your usual roles, with the pairing of players being the unusual twist to the game. So, anyone that doesn't know what to do, ask your partner, and try not to reveal your tactics here in the thread for the most part. Unless you're a Son of Honor. In that case, tell us and let us lynch you.

Wow, lots to catch up on. In case anyone thinks I was lurking, btw, I was, but only because I was catching up on reading through the thread when I wasn't sleeping, but I never felt up to making a post. From what I can see, there are three main suspicions being thrown around in the thread itself: HH, Orlok, and Man. HH's slip up could easily be read either way, and both Aman and Orlok covered most of that fairly extensively (whew), but it is very interesting to me. If he's only played long games, then commenting on the pacing of a long game doesn't make sense to me, and his explanation of it certainly isn't very convincing to me. That said, it also doesn't quite seem like an Elim mistake to me, so it's hard to really jump on him for that specifically. The vote from yesterday on phatt, maybe, but then again a whole lot of us voted on phatt and it's safe to say we're not all Skaa. Aman, I'm leaning towards not being Skaa, but he's such a good player and has so much analysis that he could just be hiding behind that. It's what he has done in the other game(s?) I've played with him, so it's not immediately suspicious, similarly to how I tried not to make too much out of Elenion doing a similar post. He could have been converted, but I think the odds are against that, both because I doubt Kelsier could have used a conversion with that many kills happening, and because he's not exceptionally likely to be half-Skaa anyways (as someone pointed out with math). Orlok, I hate to say, is also all too likely to be village, tunneling on Aman, simply because I've seen that too often now as well. I can't help but think the Skaa are just sitting back and grinning about this debate taking the focus off everyone else, though if either Aman or Orlok turns out to be Skaa, that'll be great (since it's unlikely that they'll both survive very long, between the Lynch, Skaa, and Coinshot/Ruin kills). I genuinely wish we could keep them both in the game since they're so good at analysis, but I'm not holding my breath. A couple other notes about other players too. @Arinian expressed some suspicion of Joe for his Kandra plan, but I talked to him in a PM and he explained that he thought it seemed like the game was very Kandra-heavy (he'd contacted several already and knew of others). I won't reveal any kandra to the thread myself, since I think that's bad form, but there's a fair number of them in this game it seems, making his reveal not too big of a deal to me. Not that suspicious of Arinian either. His point about not going after inactives because it doesn't work out for villagers is unfortunately too accurate, though I still want to at least put pressure on inactives. I think Szeth is a lost cause, though, and in this case, one inactive won't hurt us too directly, so I'm willing to ignore him for the Lynch for now. If a Coinshot or Ruin wants to take him out (especially on the off-chance that he's a Skaa or Preservation, though the odds probably aren't particularly high on either), I'd fully support that, though. Stick, you responded to the accusation of you being Ruin, but you didn't actually refute it. It seems you almost certainly have a role, but considering there are so many kandra, you could be just another one of those. Care to explain why you didn't just tell just that you're not Ruin, though? I wouldn't lynch you if you were, since as I said, Ruin is actually an asset to the Nobles this game, except the one that happens to be Preservation and any that get caught in his hunt, but it seems you'd be making yourself a target for the Skaa by not refuting that claim. That does make me a bit more suspicious, not that you're Ruin, but that you might be a Skaa and trying to play some mind games with us. We don't seem to have any real lurkers who aren't posting much at all, at least without letting us know, which is nice. Unfortunately, I'm not getting a lot to go on for the Lynch from what most people have been saying, either. There's a lot of genuinely helpful suggestions being thrown out, but ones that could easily come from either side, and I haven't seen any particularly bad logic or suggestions. I guess at this point, I'm more suspicious of Orlok than HH or Aman, due to the way he's going after Aman and yet switched so easily to HH. I know that's somewhat in conflict with what I said earlier, but considering the lack of lurkers, the odds are rising against Orlok just being a tunneling Noble.

Apologies for my lower activity, I'm thoroughly exhausted and slept all day, and I'm preparing to go back to bed. I should be on in the morning to weigh in and cast a vote, but @Amanuensis, I'm not Kelsier. If I was, do you think you'd be alive and unconverted?

Hey, I'll commit to not killing you in C1 if you want, unless I have a really good reason.

Don't you love figuring out those conundrums, Drought? I'm leaning towards Aman not being Skaa, but them either planning to use or convert him. His posts have felt genuine enough to me, and I mentioned how he came across in my earlier post, so I would be impressed, though I suppose not too shocked, if he was indeed Skaa already. Aman, any thoughts on that yourself? Edit: ninja'd by Aman.

@randuir, I just wanted to note that the reason I was talking about Ruin is because in another game I read through, Ruin was being viewed as the enemy even though several people noted he could actually be on the village side for that game (the one with Hoid and the Shards I think, whichever it was, where I died really early). I just didn't want us falling into that trap of thinking again.

@Amanuensis, thanks for pointing out those two things. It always helps to know what makes people wonder so I can respond. For the first question, I legitimately didn't like what phat was doing, as I said, and didn't just pile on the bandwagon to add votes. As you said, there would have been no point. The part about Remart's neck was just RP flavor. For randuir, I discussed this in a PM as well, but my initial suspicion of him was due to feeling like he's playing differently from last game, and it stuck in my head when I made that first post. After I reviewed the D1 posts, though, I realized that he was behaving differently, but in a way that seems helpful, and also remembered that he was Elim in the game I remember him playing differently, so that makes him more likely village this time.

Alright, so after reading back over the thread and taking notes, I am adjusting some of my reads. Here's my summary of my thoughts: Elenion: Poke voted and started bandwagons, pretty normal behavior. Agreed that inactives have been a major issue in other games. Offered legitimate role advice for every role, wary because he's used that to gain trust in previous games, but also seemed genuine, and no particularly dangerous suggestions. No strong feelings either way, watching for now. (Other players behaviors are making me start to lean more Elim, but that could easily be misinterpretation.) Silverblade: Poked for crusade with no other reason at all, maybe a little suspicious. Removed poke vote from Mage, said Elenion's advice seemed ok. Leaning maybe Elim hiding behind minimal discussion. Stick: Got in before a poke vote, asked who to lynch, but didn't provide any of their own discussion (hates D1, like me). Asked if anyone has PMs from kandra (probably a bad idea in the main thread). Voted on Mage instead of joining bandwagon, because he wasn't certain about lynch (who is on D1?). Suspicious of HH for joining the bandwagon, but didn't mention suspicions of anyone else who did that. Leaning Elim. Randuir: Provided some recommendations, only flaw was in idea of stockpiling metals, but with a good purpose I think. RP'd a little, one of the few to do so, but without ignoring discussion. Rightly expressed that phatt could just have had poor logic but not be Elim (proven correct). Seems to be playing different from last game, in which he was an Eliminator, so starting to lean somewhat village, but staying wary after being fooled. Orlok: Opposed the methods of the CC, with some good points. Continued to oppose in later posts as well, although seemed to misunderstand some of the ideas. Provided responses to discussion from most other players. Feels genuine, leaning village. Mage: Encouraged middle ground on CC, pointed out the problems with just poke voting without reason or encouraging discussion (like I did, which was a mistake on my part). Continued discussion throughout the day. Feels somewhat village. HH: Says we have no information, need discussion, but then says he will wait. Later added some discussion about phatt and Len, ending up voting on phatt without much reason other than to add to the bandwagon. Could be covering for not voting on a teammate? Added some RP in separate posts. Removed vote because he was criticized for joining the bandwagon, and because phatt hadn't defended himself. Leaning slightly Elim. Straw: Thinks a strict CC sends a wrong message to new players, which is the opposite of how I feel. No strong feelings either way though. Drought: Says he's there. Agreed that lynching inactives is good, as long as we don't focus on them. Mostly lurking. Arinian: Didn't know who to vote on, suggested that CC and poke votes don't seem to indicate alignment (probably accurate). Suspicious of Stick for...not seeming suspicious? Some RP. Leaning slightly toward Elim. Ecth: Announced presence, called out Phatt for waiting to vote, and voted on him. No strong feelings either way. Aman: Busy and didn't get to post much, which for him means only a couple thousand words. :-P Gave some summaries of feelings on players, leaning town for now. Joe: Quoted and responded to posts, a good plan, and rated his suspicions of each player. Suggestions offered seem both genuine and beneficial, leaning village for now. Claimed kandra (only person to do so in main thread). Questioned benefits of guessing numbers of Elims, but seemed genuine in doubting that, even though I disagree.

Elbereth, the choose your own adventure was…outstanding. Well done! That was quite the bandwagon that ended up forming, so I'm going to go back through by sometime tomorrow and analyze the motives of each person from what I can see. Those who vote with reasons, and those who hop on the bandwagon only to avoid vote manipulation (though I don't think anyone said they were doing that, nor would it have been particularly necessary) are less suspicious to me than those who hop on early and without stated reasons. I'll also work up a chart of who I think is leaning Noble or Skaa so far, though it's still early enough it's hard to get much of a read. I think I'm leaning Noble on Len and Orlok, leaning Skaa on randuir and HH, but fairly neutral on most others. I'll give reasoning as much as I can when I get a chance to type it all up. EDIT: I also will be watching those that didn't vote, though a D1 vote is always trickier. We didn't have votes from @Silverblade5, @Straw, @Hemalurgic_Headshot, @Bartimaeus, and @Szeth Son-Son Mallano, even though most of them were posting. Like I said, not as big of a deal for the D1 vote, but I'll continue to track that, and anyone who consistently doesn't vote will be a viable target for me.

Not that there are three left, but knowing that of those 7, 3 are Elims, and one is likely an inactive, for instance, while another has a specific role, can be helpful. It helped me in LG30 before I died.

As I said before, I dislike bandwagons and don't like to jump on them. However, phattemer's actions of not actually saying anything worthy of discussion while claiming to push for it is indeed suspicious, and is making the back of Remart's neck prickle. Speaking of which, is anyone planning to continue RP? I want to, but we've been sidetracked by discussion (discussion is good and necessary, but I love the RP parts of these games).