Orlok Tsubodai

Having just closed seven games, I didn’t want this thread to be buried. With posts now having been made since those games were closed, this can now be unpinned without issue.

With discussion having concluded, it's now tie to close this up. Thanks to Joe and Elbereth for running this, and to all the players involved. I think the scheming and politicking in the early stage of the game were some of the most fun I've had in SE for a while. I think that whilst changes could be made to the victors mechanics, the game was enjoyed by all, and it was fascinating to see the different approaches to agreements and promises that emerged. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

It's now time to close this up. Thanks to Drake for running it, and to everyone for playing what turned out to be a very active game. I very much enjoyed seeing the effects of the inactivity filter, and the consequent increases in voting and engagement - I'd love to see similar mechanics in a great many more games. Whilst three inactivity deaths in seventeen players isn't ideal, the deaths were some distance into the game, indicating that we had full activity for an impressive amount of time. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

This was a great game to run, and I'd like to thank everyone involved for making our inaugural Anonymous Game such a success. It was particularly good to see Fifth Scholar and Monster Metroid have such an impact in the game, despite it being their first games - a real advantage of Anonymous Games, and a reminder to us all to never underestimate new players! As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. If anyone is interested in running an Anonymous Game, please see the conditions for running them here , and please PM me. Anonymous Games have a number of added complications for GMs, and I'd be very happy to pass on lessons learnt from running this one. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

This thread has been quiet for long enough that it's now time to close up this game. Many thanks to Sart for running this game with such short notice, and for providing such a fun game to play. I hugely enjoyed the mechanics, and would love to see something similar in the future. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

As it's now time to close up this game, thanks are in order for Lopen, for running such a unique game, and to all the players. The RP at the beginning of the game was wonderful to see, and I hope to see many more games going forward with such an engagement from players in their characters. I think this game also illustrates the importance of remaining active, and the impact on other players of not doing so. That said, I think activity in our forum is improving, and hope that we see this trend continue over the summer. Congratulations to the eliminators for your victory, and for staying alive in a game with so different lynch mechanics. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

As it is now time to close up this game, many thanks are due to all involved in the game. It's always great to see well balanced games with interesting mechanics, so all credit to Joe on that front. I'd also echo the commendation of Steel for his victory as a serial killer in a balanced game - not an easy feat to have accomplished. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

This game is now long overdue being closed, but once again, thanks are due to Droughtbringer and Aonar for running such an interesting game, and to all the players for getting involved and contributing to the community. Congratulations to House One for your victory, and to Rae for your spirited defence. As always, if anyone would like to try their hand at running a game, just get a hold of Seonid, Alvron, Wilson or myself. Not only will we get you added to the list (and the GM PM group), but we'll be more than willing to help out in any way we can. You can also post game ideas, ask questions, and get feedback from everyone over in our Art of Game Creation thread too. With all the games that we've run so far, we have plenty of experienced GMs that can help you refine any game you're working on. Thanks again to everyone who played, and we look forward to killing seeing you in future games!

That looks like the case, yes. @Mraize, for the sake of ease of gameplay and consistency for other players, we’d ask that you don’t change your username again until the conclusion of the game (or indeed whilst you’re in the middle of any SE game.

I’m going to throw a vote on @Amanuensis, to encourage him to provide thoughts on last cycle’s lynch. I thought his suspicions of Eternum were valid, although I disagreed with them overall, but do wonder whether it was a constructed lynch he didn’t expect to see derailed. Amanuensis.

My suspicions will follow in a few hours, as I have a meeting now, but in reflection I do believe Livinglegend is indeed a villager. I had a village read on them for most of the cycle, and explained that in reference to their initial claim, and can’t see how their actions would make sense at all as an eliminator. Exposing themselves to save Drake wouldn’t have gained much even if successful, and Livinglegend was watching the end of the cycle for enough time before it ended to know that it couldn’t have made a difference.

@Kynedath, Steeldancer was the vote that condemned Drake to die, changing the lynch from LoC to Drake. I think that just about hard clears him, given there were only a couple of minutes left in the cycle. I similarly think Devotary and Stink are cleared - I can’t see eliminators joining a very end of day one bandwagon against one of their roles. It’s 5:20am and I haven’t slept, but I’ll look back through the end of the thread when I wake to see if I can glean anything else of value from it.

I think that puts Drake on 3, LoC on 2, and Drought on 2. For those as of yet undecided, lynching Drake will give you a great deal of information, simply based on how people have reacted to this last minute vote.

I believe Drought’s tone in the thread, and his establishment and defence of his whole game PM are indicative of his being a villager. I think they brought him a lot of totally unnecessary attention, and read that as a villager move.

On reflection, reading that post, Drake Marshall. I’m getting a really quite off read from it. I’m not sure I could articulate it well, but something that does stand out is his neutral claim. I think that a second neutral claim, with the previous establishment that Livinglegend is more likely to not be evil having claimed neutral, is far too convenient, and is a good excuse for an eliminator to explain away non village actions. I think further that lynching Drake gives us information on Madagascar, which is useful regardless. I’d be interested in whether anyone else picked anything off up from this post, and will try to place why it’s giving me such a bad read in the meantime. Edit: Drake, are you voting on Drought for any reason other than saving Madagascar? What are your thoughts on other players?

So to confirm, you voted on Eternum for the speed of his village reads, and retracted based on his inclusion of Chouta in posts, despite admitting that he hadn’t swayed you? Why were his village reads enough to induce you to vote on him, but not to keep your vote on him despite not being convinced. I remain suspicious of you, and in light of Madagascar’s comments in the PM, and not wanting to alienate her from our community, will move to voting on Herowannabe instead, despite believing that lynching Madagascar will give us information on Drake, Fifth and yourself. I think ultimately that the community and fun for all should come before optimal strategy, and certainly wouldn’t want to see Madagascar leave. This makes the vote count as follows: Drought: Stink, Fifth (2) Lady of Chaos: Herowannabe, Madagascar (2) Fifth: Drought (1) Madagascar: Eternum (1) Eternum: Amanuensis (1) Herowannabe: Orlok (1)

@Herowannabe, regarding your response, I’d first say that I was referring to your exclusive focus on Eternum at that time, which felt like a safe option given the current discussion has been exclusively anti-Eternum. You contributed to that focus, rather than widening it. I might be misinterpreting your RP, but I don’t think you’ve provided a proper explanation for the retraction on Eternum, given your previous suspicion of them. Why do you not want to lynch Madagascar? Why your change or heart on Eternum? I’m also interested in your vote on Lady of Chaos, given the current tie, and the limited information it would provide. It seems to be to be another safe choice of focus.

At present, the lynch stands as follows: Drought: Stink, Fifth (2) Fifth: Drought, Livinglegend (2) Madagascar: Orlok, Eternum (2) Eternum: Aman (1) Regarding the flood of recent responses, I think it interesting that both @Drake Marshall and @Fifth Scholar are defending Madagascar, Fifth particularly ardently, and Drake without getting involved in the conversation. @Drake Marshall, I’d like to hear your thoughts on the game once you’ve had a bit more time.

@Fifth Scholar, I maintain my village read on Drought, for the reasons I set out above. I’m interesting in why you’re so sure Madagascar isn’t an eliminator. Would you mind explaining from where you get the village feel from her posts? Your thoughts on lynching Hero or Stick instead?

Going back through the thread, it seems that this is the extent of the discussion on Eternum. I’ve only had time to skim it, and haven’t yet developed an opinion on him, but would note for the record that I don’t like the feel of the bandwagon on him at present. I may well change my mind as I read through, though. I believe this is a reasonable question to ask, and one worth applying pressure over. I’m not sure that Eternum’s views referenced here justify a lynch on him, though. Believing that we should lynch D1 for information isn’t an unusual view, and looking for reasons to back up a previously held but unsubstantiated point isn’t an action solely undertaken by eliminators, unfortunately. Aman makes much more convincing points in this post. The cluelessness, I think he exaggerates slightly, but the lack of direction does exist, and is interesting, this being Eternum’s eleventh game. I also agree on his comments, which I attach here: Eternum has seen me try to start a read time and time again, and knows I aim to start discussion regardless of my alignment. Village reading me on that basis, and after Steel and Kynedath read me as a villager, does strike me as pocketing and trying to join a consensus. Eternum also village reads Stink for generating discussion. Eternum has only played two games with Stink - QF25 and LG37, but in both games Stink made a real effort to generate discussion, and was evil in QF25. Generating discussion is to me entirely NAI, but is a safe thing to comment on. Madagascar challenges a time keeping mistake in Aman’s post, but doesn’t seem to engage with the more substantive elements of Aman’s suspicion of Eternum. If I were to put my tin foil hat on, I’d wonder whether this was an attempt to avoid building too much of an association with Eternum, whilst trying to undermine the momentum of the Eternum lynch. Aman’s response here acknowledges his mistake, but doesn’t retract his vote. This is entirely NAI to me - Madagascar’s point didn’t address the core of Aman’s suspicion on Eternum. I’m interested as to why Hero chose to focus his time exclusively on Eternum. Although he produced new reasons, indicating that he is engaging with the thread, I’m surprised that’s he only has comments on Eternum. This makes me wonder whether he’d already decided that Eternum was an acceptable lynch, and looked for reasons to contribute to it. Further, with Kynedath and Aman’s support, supporting the lynch becomes a relatively safe place to be. I think that following this post I’m slightly suspicious of Hero. The first thing from this post that I’d like t address is that there is a difference between playing safely, and not creating additional material/being entirely NAI in your views. I considered that Eternum’s views might be because Stink, Drought and myself were the obvious people to comment on, but reading through the thread, before Eternum’s post Hero, Steel, Jondesu and Fifth had also made comments worth considering, yet other players hadn’t commented on them. I think with this in mind, Eternum’s focus on Stink, Drought and I does become more suspicious, and more likely to be an attempt to avoid contributing. Eternum, to answer the second part of your post, your vote on LivingLegend was a poke vote, which doesn’t add any of your own thoughts to the thread, or put you at any risk of being analysed. Hero’s post here is unusual. He’s noted suspicion of Eternum, but is removing his vote for RP reasons (which is consistent with his retaining his vote on my for not buying Chouta). This might indicate that his desire to lynch accurately is secondary to RP. That can be read in a couple of ways. It’s a dangerous way to act, and one that might draw undue attention to him were he an eliminator, and so conventionally might be read as village indicative. Equally, Hero RPd as literally talking to Ruin in AG3, as a (spiked) eliminator, so I think the conventional analysis isn’t of much use here. Overall, I’d like more of an explanation from @Herowannabe for his vote and then retraction on Eternum. Given the degree of suspicion placed on Eternum at this stage, it’s interesting that he doesn’t seem that invested in defending himself further, but more interesting still that he doesn’t contribute any thoughts to the thread on other players, even when called out for it previously. I’m not sure how to read this. It might be a focus on defending himself has distracted him from otherwise contributing, it could be a differing playstyle, given it seems consistent over this cycle (although I can’t recall his playstyle well enough in past games), or it could be reluctance to expose himself to scrutiny. Did I miss something? Since when are we taking people's word for things like that? I feel like this isn't the first time someone's said something like this. Also, er, you're still voting for someone you're saying isn't an elim. Ol' Mapadonet's sorry if she's bein' thick, but she don't understand. @Madagascar, could you please find the other example you allude to here? I’m not sure that I think Eternum’s actions here are overwhelmingly eliminator-ish. Being overly trusting (as appears in your quote, ignoring Eternum’s response below) is suspicious, but leaving a vote on a player you say you think isn’t an eliminator isn’t a careful move, and I’d expect Eternum to have been more careful as an eliminator. Eternum makes a good point here. LivingLegend is likely to draw scans and greater scrutiny for having claimed a non-eliminator win condition (and in doing so implying a non-village win condition). I don’t think an eliminator is likely to do that, but could see a villager doing so to try to persuade eliminators to claim to him. Stink disagrees with Devotary’s suspicion of Eternum over his comments on the lynch, which I think is a very reasonable view to take. I don’t think that Devotary was wrong to challenge Eternum on it, but don’t think it necessarily something to lynch Eternum over. Stink then seems to highlight that other people have acted in a similar way to Eternum’s being safe. I had similar thoughts about Steel and Kynedath reading me as a villager. Also interesting is that Stink seems to be defending Eternum without stating that he’s doing so. Normally that would make me suspicious of a player, but I still hold my view that Stink is acting like he does as a villager, and think challenging the growing consensus on Eternum was a risky thing to do regardless. Your point about a random lynch is something I disagree with; we may base our votes on slight suspicions or bad reasons but it certainly won't be random. Also, I think it's should be noted that you've mentioned that a random lynch is all we can hope for two times in the same post. It doesn't seem...natural? Yeah. Like your worried people would be suspicious of you if you're part of a lynch that turns out to be on a villager. I’m not sure I agree with this post. Eternum made his point in two different contexts, and I think that was a reasonable enough thing to do. I don’t like that Stick is focusing their attention on adding suspicion to a player already under discussion. It feels like a safe thing to do, to a greater degree than Eternum’s reads. @Madagascar, I’m reading Eternum’s actions here as more of someone under pressure than of an eliminator having made a slip up. I do think it was fair to draw something from Legend’s claim that they had a “non-eliminator” win condition. Eternum was responding to your own post presenting the leading question of whether LivingLegend could be lying, and I think it more likely that Eternum agreed with the leading question and went on to state his own views. I think it shows a genuine train of thought, and if he were eliminator, think he’d have made more of an effort to ensure consistency. This post makes me more suspicious of Madagascar, I think. Eternum continues not adding thoughts on other players, limiting his extension of the discussion to summoning those who haven’t contributed, but I think that’s entirely fair, given the degree of discussion now focused on him. I don’t think any of his explanations here are unfair. His not offering an alternative lynch target also makes me less suspicious of him. I think if he were an eliminator, he’d be trying to get someone else lynched as an alternative to him. (As an aside, I think the lack of one emerging serves as additional evidence of his being a villager. I think his teammates would have done something other than leave him to defend himself without a contender if they existed.) @_Stick_, I think given there were thirteen posts (I haven’t quoted Kynedath’s - I must have left it on my first pass through the thread, and really don’t think it’ll add much to go back to it at this stage) focused on Eternum, with no other target being discussed, it’s fair for Eternum to consider himself the target of a bandwagon, in attention if not votes. Again, I think we’re Eternum an eliminator, we would see something more than defending himself. We’re now an hour from the original end to the cycle, and no alternative lynch target has emerged, and I don’t think anyone has tried to build suspicion against other players without voting. This post also reads to me as village!Eternum. Overall, I’m suspicious of the bandwagon against Eternum. @Devotary of Spontaneity had a valid question, but I’m surprised and suspicious that they haven’t said anything since the lynch began building. I’m not sure their question was worth lynching Eternum over, and their silence as more was added to the discussion seems like an attempt to kill a villager without engaging in the discussion. For the reasons stated above, I’m also suspicious of @Herowannabe, and @Madagascar, for their own contributions to the discussion. Hero focuses exclusively on Eternum, and then drops their vote for RP reasons, and Madagascar seems to be pressuring Eternum and ignoring the circumstances of his statements to further her own points. I think that Stick is being incredibly safe in their attacks on Eternum, to a greater degree than Eternum’s own actions resulting in votes. For now, I’m going to vote on Madagascar, for the twisting of Eternum’s situation, but would happily vote for any of Madagascar, Hero, and Stick.

@Herowannabe, as above, I did indeed give an explanation for my vote, and for the delivery of my vote. It has been interesting to see how people have reacted to it, and adding fluff to a vote merely to increase pressure isn’t of massive use to the village. My vote created discussion, Steeldancer, which I’d like to think is a hallmark of how I act in most games. I’ll leave my vote on you for now, as I’d like to see a greater degree of analysis or provision of opinions to the thread before I consider removing it. Commenting on Stink’s playstyle seems like a fine way to be present without contributing. I’ve got a village read on Stink, both from the thread and my PM, and on reflection think Drought is unlikely to have exposed himself to the degree he did were he not a villager.

Your own analysis, then, Steeldancer?

Apologies, Hero. I was indeed “cranky” at the time of the vote, and had not had a good day. Regardless, I did have reason for both the vote and its delivery. I wanted additional pressure placed on Drought; thought it’d be interesting to see who responded to a vote of that nature, and how they did so; and wanted to see whether anyone jumped in to protect Drought or to offer other targets. Being in better spirits now than last night, I recognise the delivery of my vote wasn’t terribly helpful. Whilst less useful with my intentions known, I will maintain my vote on Drought.

Drought.

I’m going to read through the thread shortly, and would note that the following comment is made without having considered this cycle’s events, but we’re not really going to lynch Straw in the early game again, are we? I might come back shortly to change my mind, but irrespective of the thread, we have a real tendency to misread and mislynch Straw in the early game. Albeit misattributed to Einstein, the quote “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” seems to be to be relevant.