Awesomness

When I read it I thought it was to bind a spren, and reminded me to the gems used to summon/dismiss shardblades. Sort of like Neil Gaiman´s Stardust.

hahahahaha Picture our Kal as an uber-hot ladies-man, flying piece of pancake...

THANK YOU for asking him! It was really confusing. Still, seems like an odd choice to have him say "I am unity" right after the skybreakers mentioned their 5th ideal.

Oh this is getting interesting Personally, I like Shallan though I have often felt frustrated or annoyed with her; but I woudn´d say she is badly written, or written to fulfill some group´s expectations. What bugs me about Shallan is that some of her actions and thoughts show us that she is really nice, caring, sharp, funny, sensitive and can be very badass in her own way (among other positive characteristics that don't come to my mind right now). But with all this stuff about her lying and manipulating everyone from day one, pretending to be different people (and then believing it!), being mean and classist, verbally attacking people just because she wants to appear sharp or because she is annoyed, trying to do everything by herself, running away from her problems... and so many actions that read as disgusting and over the top... I just don't enjoy her as much. I know all her actions are coherent and believable from her POV, that she is struggling the best way she knows and is usually effective. I liked her un WOK and felt really moved by her backstory in WOR. Also in WOR we see her grow a lot, only to go backwards in OB, and finish her arc in a devious positive note. So altogether I have mixed feelings. People with mental issues are usually frustrating (to themselves and to others). Just like Kaladin, I see she has lot of issues and want her to move on so badly, that reading some stuff she does just irks me. I just want to see her as the girl I know she can be.

When she showed up I thought Ta..Vivenna!!! (I was expecting something interesting from this misterios Highmarshal..)

If you watch is from Shallan´s point of view... we know she is a little classist... I´d say mostly dead...

Sorry, I couldn't just let it slide. Had to check this! So, we can see that, besides being "adopted" by a Radiant and saying the first oath, you need to have the right mindset to reach the stormlight. In fact, now that I remember, some Bridge 4 members became squires the moment Kaladin said the 3rd oath and flew to the Shattered Plains, so the saying may not be as important as the living. Lopen, Teft, Sigzil, Peet are among the first. I´ll have to check the moment when Vathah becomes squire to see how it works in different orders. I think he just starts lightweaving...

Mmm I´m pretty sure Kaladin mentions that most of bridge 4 could surge bind, but they couldn't get the new recruits to do it. The practice session we see from Skar´s POV is not her first, she didn´t make it immediately. There may be a clue in her conversation with Scar though. He asks her why she wants to be squire. At first she says something vague, but then says she wants to help people and starts shining. I should reread that chapter...

I think it is long as you are living it:

I think she should be a libertine from the Reshi Islands...

This is off topic but do you have a quote about this? I can't have missed this! Right now I feel like Kate Winslet trying to jump into the see from the soon to sink Titanic. Maybe I just need a Leo Di Caprio to pull me back on board and enjoy its last days until the iceberg shows up...

To pick up were you left, lets make a list of requirement we know: - You have to be broken. Its hard to say from 1 to 10 how broken you need tu be. - You have to live up to the ideals. (I'm not certain that Adolin follows the 1st, but that's another topic) - It may be easier if you are a squire because: a. you are following your radiants ideal - b. your spiritweb is somehow more apt. - Your moral codes have to be aligned with one of the orders. - You need to attract the attention of a spren. We know most navel bonds were supervised. In the case of the edge dancers, the circle chose Lift, though also considerer Ym. - You have to say the words. - Spren started bonding just recently, so it is possible that they are still a little shy. Do you guys know of any other requirement?

Hi, I just wanted to add: I don't think Kaladin´s mysterious future love interest will be some kind of damsel he wants to (over)protect and is in constant danger. We have evidence that he likes independent and strong willed women (Shallan, Tarah, Laral, that horse keeper... even Syl, if we want to add her to the list...). In OB he likes Shallan, but he never tries to shelter her, he knows she can take care of herself. Yes, he wanted to save Laral from Roshone, but he realizes it was childish.

Yes, I loved his arc too, and I think it was very smart from Brandon to make him meet the Singers and the Wall Guard, and then struggle with the fifth ideal. I am sure he already knows what the words will imply. @Windseeker I understand you anyway. When you get caught by the book and invested in the characters, and suddenly you have frustrating scenes like this one, you end up reading too fast to process everything. Or at least that is how I feel sometimes...

I've been reading some of Shallan last POVs and I really think her optimism at the end of OB was Shallan deluding herself again. I´ll quote some parts: Here we see her thinking of herself as 3 different, independent women. She treats Radiant and Veil as different people, yet she wants to be recognized as herself... () So if Radiant is the logical one, and Veil the compassionate and social driven drunk, "Shallan" is not any of those things? She creates 3 personas, extrapolating several characteristics and becoming a lesser self. We know she IS the 3 of them, but she more and more thinks she is not. Then, she chooses to identify with "Shallan" as the dominant persona, and that is an improvement since last time. Thats why this moment with Adolin is so important to her. On the other hand, Adolin, as the rest of the characters, think of her as Shallan, not Veil or Radiant (Shallan tells him about them in Shadesmar IIRC) So this is her anagnorisis (I don't feel like talking about the choice). I just think it is very curious that she denies the characteristics that "belong" to Veil and Radiant. As long as Veil and Radiant are the ones attracted to Kal, she is ok. I wonder who she thinks "Shallan" is... I think she practically bullied the guy into marrying her. He is in love with her, but we can see he is worried, and rightfully so. She keeps saying she's fine, even though she knows that Adolin knows she is not fine (how can he "see her" and think she is all right?). Anyway, I´ll read the remaining POV soon. I think there was an interesting quote from Pattern.

I don't think he failed his friends in Alethkar, he froze because he cannot save them all, he is no mindless thug that kills the ones he's pointed against. He is empathic. He was terrified when he realized he could kill (in a flashback). He is terrified again when he is confronted to the fact that he may have to kill people he wants to protect. Even though, he soon regained focus and moved forward. He is still struggling with his depression, but we see him more mature, and relaying more in his friends, instead of trying to do everything by himself. I think Kaladin´s entire arc will revolve around Lirins words about growing calluses, standing up for what is right, not trying to stop the storm by blowing harder. I've read many opinions about Kaladin being the cliched superhero who always saves the day. In OB Brandon wrote him in a different light and now people complains he failed and didn't save the day... Seriously? I know depressive people like Kaladin are usually frustrating (from an outside view), but they are fighting their own war.

I think Odium was stupid because he didn't make Amaram swallow the gem before, so that he wouldn't be changing into an uber-surgebinder while fighting. With a little more practice this wold have been way different. Maybe he was saving Yelig-nar for Dalinar... Or maybe they did underestimate the KR. I liked that Kaladin never fought in anger, always focused in protecting Dalinar. He was over Amaram by the time.

Both of them matter. I think this is most clear in the proto-radiant stage. We see Kal using surges many times before Teft tipped him on the first words. But he was certainly choosing life before death, etc. I really really doubt little Shallan and little Lift new the first words either. I think that's the reason why Shallan in OB is still struggling with Transformation even though she is 4th level. Pattern sort of forced her to say the truth, she cannot go backwards now, but she isn't accepting it either. We also see Pattern becoming more erratic, as a result. She needs to make peace with this truth to fully be on level 4th.

Hi everyone. I've been feeling a little shy lately, but as Shallan is my greatest frustration, here I am. You really made me lough here, I though I had to tell you. Regarding the "Forced Bond", there are several evidences that this can happen. Lift and Venli are examples of this. I think we shouldn't think of "levels" as the moment the oath/truth is said, but also the moment it is assimilated or meant. Let me clarify: Kal/Syl bond is not revived when he says the words, but when he decides to save Elokhar. Lift uses her shard-pole seconds before saying the words. @kari-no-sugata I think you may be onto something with Shallan talking to the cryptics. - Pattern lobbied to be bonded with Shallan - Cryptics want to be bonded - In OB Pattern mentions that Shallan could kill him and the Cryptics would send someone else. So it is entirely possible the cryptics were trying to bond with her, regardless of Pattern being half dead somewhere. That would explain why a simple lie (I'm terrified) was enough to access the transformation surge for a moment. After she says the second truth, I'm a murderer, her self-awareness increases and she is able to revive Pattern, and driving away the other cryptics. We don't know the mechanics of leveling down bonds. Maybe she was 3rh level and stayed that way when she killed Pattern, so she brought him back on the same level; or maybe she was 4th lvl and downgraded to 3rd...

Sorry. I ment her progress regarding her "brokenness". We see Kaladin slowly overcoming his depression, and Dalinar finding / redeeming / forgiving himself, but Shallan seems to be making baby steps with her coping mechanism, and by the end of OB she is still worse than before the 4th truth. Yes, Shallan is 4th level as a radiant, but doesn't manifest her advanced abilities. I think it may be because she said the truth but didn't mean it, instead she tried to bury those memories (If you say an oath but you don't mean it, its like you never said it or worse). I half believe Dalinar jumped 3 oaths in 90 seconds anyway, but that´s for another topic.

I think she is slower to progress because her oaths/truths are so tied with her mental state; as opposed to Dalinar an Kaladin, who have one arc about morality/responsability and another about KR oaths (related, but not as much as Shallan´s). I agree with you, this is just how I rationalize this.

I don't think it is foreshadowing, but it is confusing in many levels. Also: Nightblood has its own way of interpreting this whole thing about responsibility.

The willshaper spren- capitán of the first ship in they ride in Shadesmar says that his Father is a deadeye, and his daughter is "chasing stupid dreams". When Venli asks Timbre why she bonded a listener, its implied she/he replies humans killed her grandfather.

Upvoted for this, very good interpretation. It would go in line with the "need to be broken to form a nahel bond" stuff. We need more case studies... The only currently known radiant I wonder about is Lift (and Venli, but we don't have much informaron about her...)

I think I quoted you quoting that... sorry!