Awesomness

Can we please talk about the implications of this? Is it a wink to the readers worried about "the infamous Angle"? Is Vadam Adolin, Sterling Kaladin, Shallan a little whore? What about the sequel´s quadrangle? Is Hoid involved in this? Theorisation apart, I love how this reads as a Jane Austen kind of novel. And, I am dying to know exactly what´s the deal with safehands.

Yes, I agree that "cling" wasn't the right word. What I meant was that he persist on the relationship. I see this as relevant because we have some reason to believe he used to get bored in other relationships, or just didn't try very hard. With Shallan we see him trying to make it work.

So after WOR we have an Adolin that went from being on the top of the social chain, best fighter, very powerful, popular, surrounded by friends and occasional girls, (never without girls) to being more lonely, alienated from his previous circle, not powerful enough, not really relevant at war. No wonder he clings actually tries to make the relationship work with Shallan (who stays betrothed to him and eventually marries him, despite being in a position of power in terms of relationship) and befriends Kaladin (who has proven to be a loyal , and is quite magnetic).

I am pretty sure the people from the reship islands are even more audacious. They swim half naked

I like this idea. He cannot protect everyone, but he can let other protect, and inspire them to do so. Hence the leadership. The only loophole I see is that he is already doing this. Maybe he should concisely accept that by doing this he will be letting the people he cares about put themselves in danger...

I managed to find the 1st Ketek in Spanish. There is not knowing if it is a accurate or just a lazy translation. I read the "Above Silence" as the absence of Honor/the Almighty. The high storms are showing/reveling this lack of Honor. Also, the storms are dying...? "Above silence" could relate to the helplessness the characters seem to feel in the first part. "Illuminatig storms" may be, as @Dreamstorm said, the massage conveyed in Dalinar´s visions. It could also refer to the first steps they take towards their respective objetives. Here is when Kaladin starts to fight back again...I´m at lost with "dying storms". "Illuminate the silence above" seems to me like a call to action, people chasing to stand up by themselves, in response to the lack of Honor. On a second thought, the "dying storms" reminded me of this: Maybe the "dying storms" are the consequence of Honor´s absence. Honor used to be a sort of moral compass. The storms and winds are linked with Honor many times. So the fact that there is "silence above" / Honor is not there causes the "dying storm"/lack of honorable acts, and that reveals the absence of Honor. Kind of what Syl means in that passage. Am I making sense? --- @Humming welcome onboard. @GoddessIMHO I haven´t listend to the shardpost, but there is no denying there are many that feel at lost with the triangle resolution, and we have already overanalyzed everything and still get the same feeling, so I guess it doesn't really matter what they say. I´m glad for them anyway. As for the Ketek, I agree it applies to the whole book, though being made for Shallan´s marriage it may have some specific meaning. It is a strange piece to write on a wedding day...

Has anyone read the books in a different language? English is too simple... I´m sure the different versions could give better insight on the meaning (kind of with the Harry Potter´s RAB mystery).

This may be due to the book´s pacing...

And, Moash killed Elokhar on a battlefield, so it wasn't a crime.

I easily spent around 3 hours reading the avalanche so yes, it was crazy...

Isn´t it weird that he doesn't remember???

Yes, Kal gave them to him. You are right, but a full set of shards is a whole fortune, Moash became a lighteyes with lands when he acquired them. People keep track and records of the shards, so they should at least wonder...

Fron Moash perspective, Kaladin betrayed Moash and chose to protect a murderous lighteyes, after he said he would give him an opening to kill the king. I wonder how nobody raised questions to the fact that bridge 4 most trusted official, the one who was carrying a full set of shard, disappeared the night of Elokhar`s attempted murder...

hahahahah There is no getting over this... I love this guy. He is really empathic and knows how to help people when they need it.

I think he had definitely less really low moments... I love Kaladin and loved his arc in OB. I think it was a smart choice to have him fail to say the words but learn to trust his friends in times of need.

This is how I interpret the ShallanShattering: Once upon a time she was a normal girl with many and complex personality traits like everyone else. Until she killed her mother and had to bury the memory and let her father take the blame, and see how he suffered and became more and more angry because of this. The repercussions of Brightlady Davar´s dead were huge, and all the family and household suffered from it. So Shallan obviusly felt guilty. That´s when she starts pretanding to be the perfect daughter, and developed personaShallan by burying other traits, that will eventually evolve into Veil and Radiant. PersonaShallan is "funny, eager, shy, vorin, artist" (note: this is also the Shallan that was expecting to marry whoever her father chose, and was ecstatic at the idea of an arranged marriage with a prince). The perfect girl for surviving her complicated home life. I think she buried, back then, some characteristics like her courage, self confidence, interest for the parshmen and the darkeyed household (she knew her father killed many of them, but didn´t do anything, she used to draw parshman but she was forbidden to do it because it was unseemly), radiantness (comlpetely forgot about all this), her ambition, among others. When she left her home, and specially after the shipwreck, her personaShallan wasn´t equipped to deal with the new challenges, so she starts recovering some of her other traits, but then pushes them into the other personas. The personaShallan for house Davar is the most similar to the personaShallan who tries to win over Adolin, she really doesn´t change that much. As she has to pretend to be the perfect fiance, gain the Kholins´ trust and infiltrate the ghostblood, she picks some of her buried treats and baptizes this persona as Veil, then gives her a backstory. Eventually she will do a similar thing with Radiant. Doing this allows her to go on doing what she needs to do without freezing or confronting her truths. So in a way, Veil did live all the events that traumatized Shallan, because she was a bunch of characteristics that were buried afterwards because they dind´t go with the persona Shallan needed to be in order to avoid problems with her father. (I think Shallan could even convince herself that her mother´s death was Veil or Radiant´s fault if she tried, as that surviving instinct is not exactly personaShallan, but more like the other personas)

Exactly! Had she said: "Your father stole from us", or "your father didn´t save Roshone´s son" or any other thing really, then it would be a maybe. I get she may had the necessity to side with her husband, but did it by mentioning the most frivolous reason, even knowing Tien died because of all this! So she made the best of the situation by being a good wife and landlady and gained respect from the people in town, and that´s commendable, but it also shows how she is comfortable in her position of relative power gained by marrying an old guy. She even says she needn´t saving, but she saved herself by an arranged marriage with a guy she dislikes... She never questioned anything as a girl in the flashbacks, and I don´t think she changed as an adult. Laral´s only good quality is being resilient. That´s an amazing quality, but I don´t think that´s enough.

About Laraldin, I will only bold this: (@SLNC Im recycling your quote)

I don´t feel like thinking right now, but I just wanted to say (again) this thread is Amazing! @Ailvara What a great idea! Im going to read the essay tonight @Calyx Please tell us how you interpret the same phrases! I find it fascinating how different people interprets completely opposite things from the same lines EDIT: I don´t know who opened this thread or if they are still around, but it may be a good idea to post a summary on the OP to avoid misunderstandings from people who reads the last 2 pages and think we are desperate shippers (hehe) or Adolin-haters.

Of course he loves Syl. That doesn't mean it should be romantic. On the contrary, I think a romantic relationship could somehow diminish the bond... I do believe whoever ends up with Kaladin will be in an awkward situation... she will always be a step behind Syl...

This thread turned out to be really interesting Great work, I also pictured Syl as pretty hot, but didn't remember where I get the impression. In fact, when reading the Shadesmar chapters I kept expecting someone to point out how ironic was that grumpy Kalladin is always being followed around by a pretty and cheerful girl in a revealing dress...

Wouw! new crewmates! Welcome everyone! This is starting to establish as a firm possibility. I´ve been thinking, if the skybreaker´s 5th ideal is "I am law", could the other radiant´s 5th ideal be "I am Honor", "I am truth", "I am unity" (I know! the last one was dismissed by Brandon saying Dalinar only swore one ideal, but It still bugs me!), etc? You seem to be in the first stage of grief (shock). We are on the second (denial)! This is not the end, sailing before landing my friend... I used to think Fleet´s story was a foreshadowing of Kaladin´s death. I don´t exactly know when or why did I change my mind, but right now I´m more inclined to the new heralds idea, so he won´t die, just go to damnation (?). Talking seriously, I think there will be a new kind-of oathpact, similar but with different terms. We´ll have to wait and see... The thing about Shallan is she is full of potential. Deep down, I think she is a great girl, intelligent, funny, empathetic, kind, brave, etc, etc. Why don´t we actually see this Shallan? And now we have her literally divided in 3 lesser-Shallans... I get she has tons of issues, but it´s frustrating and sometimes she really annoys me; which is sad, because I like her. I´d like to see them all as Heralds 2.0. I agree with most of this, but I don´t think Kaladin encourages her with her coping mechanism. To say the truth, back in the chasm when Shallan was in a good place and Kal was at his bottom, she surely sold her coping methods as the best. She made fun of his depression and then sayd with a smile in her face that her life was crem, but she kept positive. First she convinces him that her method is The method, then she convinces herself that Kaladin encourages her method........................ Hhahaha this was a great way of summarizing it! After rereading this post I realize I am a little sarcastic right now, sorry

hahahha I don´t want to subject Kaladin to that misery, I just think it´s inevitable! (even after OB). Luckly this will surely happen when they are in a better place with themselves so there won´t be misery. You have a point. I read many comments regarding this scene about people thinking Shallan reminded Kal of Syl, not Tien (which is silly, IMHO: why would Kal need to be reminded of someone who is omnipresent in his life..but it makes sense if they didn ´t remember the rock). I read it as Kaladin taking Tien´s clue and trying to find happiness in little things, the way Tien did; instead of placing his happiness in others. Though I also loved @DeployParachute interpretation, and think it makes a lot of sense. It´s amazing how different people read different things from the exact same lines. As you say, we were totally baited with this big romance. I thought, and still think, that´s were the story is going, the endgame. Why would Brandon set up all Shalladin if he intended to go definitely for Shadollin in the 3rd book of 10? The funny thing is, ignoring the fact that none of them seem ready to commit in a relationship (except maybe Adolin), the two ships read as Epic Romance vs Real Life. So maybe in the end this is about what each of us want to see in a romance... Thank Adonalsium this isn´t the main focus on the story! You may have a point, though I think the issue with Sadeas´s death is that we have this incredibly good guy, who happens to "snap" and kill that hateful piece of crem. Does the fact that Adolin is good diminish the crime? Does the fact that Sadeas is bad? I personally think No, it was a murder, there are valid justifications. In my mind there is Nice Adolin and Dark Adolin, and I think it´s pointless to try to reconcile one with the other, because neither "mindset" (for lack of a better denominator) invalidates the other. Adolin is good and is a murderer. I do think the murder could be the beginning of Adolin turning dark, mainly because we don´t see consequences ant that´s just too suspicious...but that is just speculation...

I think this is implied in one conversation between Dalinar and Lift. The one when they meet personally and Lift eats Dalinar´s breakfast. Unfortunately I don´t have the quote right now, I´ll try to add it soon. But I think you are right, Cultivation gave Lift her boon., not the NW.

Hello @Ookla the Feathered, welcome! I´ll keep it short, mostly because @Dreamstorm already said everything I was thinking and I could´t agree more. I think you are indeed oversimplifying. I don´t blame you, given the dimensions of this thread, but I felt a little underestimated. The Shalladin Ship may be passionate, but it´s definitely quiet. In fact, many of us are reluctant shippers or mild shippers. No one wanted them to end up together at the end of OB (I personally am really happy with Kaladin being single right now) and we all acknowledge the issues that relationship may have. Besides, Adolin is universally liked and we are not the exception. I wholeheartedly agree with your interpretation of the two scenes you mentioned, specially with the boots episode. I also think your take on the triangle is fun and makes sense, though I don´t think it´s Brandon´s style. We are still on the 3rd book of an and of 5, and we´ll have 5 more after that. We can´t consider any plotline closed right now.