The One Who Connects

More easily understand such things does not(or should not) equate to Hemalurgy. TLR never managed to make anything new other than Kandra, Koloss and Inquisitors over 1,000 of testing. I have my doubts about Kelsier somehow understanding a completely new magic system to him without the prior knowledge TLR had, and on a completely different world. If his "memory" from the coin in BoM was from Catacendre times with the Southerners, I don't believe Trellium could've even existed on Scadrial at that time. Additionally, like Vin and TLR, he was a Sliver of Preservation. He didn't even get whispers from Ruin about Hemalurgy. It's all trial and error, but without any prior funding for the trial aspect.

@NinjaAlligators I'm not questioning how the managed to copy the Honorblades. I'm saying that there is no possible way the Spren could know the Herald bond with the blade takes them to Braize upon death. Odds are they didn't even know the Heralds died unless they witnessed it happen. Therefore there is no way they could have somehow replicated that aspect of the Herald Bond. If something nefarious is whisking away the souls of your prior bonded partners to parts unknown, someone will get involved. Honorspren pretty much have too, High Spren could have laws regarding, etc... Near the start of the bonds, back before all these millennia, somebody should notice something different going on. The Stormfather was a victim during the Recreance. Tanavast merged his cognitive shadow with him, and that may have been the only thing that kept the Sotrmfather alive. So he has quite hostile rhetoric about oath breakers, and his word is pretty much law around Syl and many others. Lastly, something that isn't a direct response to your prior post. The Heralds are bound to the Oathpact and Braize by their Blades. The Radiants cannot be bound in a similar way, as the Spren survive to bond others again. Once the Radiant dies, nothing remains to bind them to the pact. It doesn't make sense that they are somehow captured for eternity by this bond when the Spren are not.

@Obnoxiousspren Kel held Preservation though and not Ruin, so he could not have learned anything of Hemalurgy while doing so. @OrcusOfUndeath Kel could see the light of Investiture by being in the Cognitive Realm, even before becoming a sliver. Neither Vin nor TLR had made any comments implying that they could see Investiture while in the Physical Realm, and given that Vin fights invested foes in book 3, it is safe to say Sliver Status does not grant the ability to see Investiture. Either way, Calderis is correct. Kelsier has no way of knowing what metal to use to spike out Divine Breath, if it was even spikable(normal breaths are not), or where to place the spike in himself. And all three of these points require him to understand the concept of Divine Breath in the first place.

Ok, so I have something more definitive on how long Nightblood is. Brandon has said that it is "close to the Claymore weapon class in Dark Souls, but a tad smaller" Anyone who has played Dark Souls want to weigh in on how big that would be? @dyring The Coppermind Article still considers two of the three types as small blades like Szeth's and large blades like Gavilar's, rather than Honorblades and Dead Sprenblades, which is more accurate. I'd even go as far as to say the third type is Living Sprenblades. Towards Nightblood's status as a Shardblade, Brandon has called Nightblood a "Third Generation Shardblade," with Honorblades being Gen 1 and Sprenblades being Gen 2. It is my opinion that Nightblood can't be a dead Sprenblade for this reason.

If all you ever see are 6 foot buster swords, and somebody pulls a Katana on you, you're going to notice. Even as just a mental comment, his opponent's PoV should have some mention if it was actually out of place. Thats why I brought it up it, since I didn't remember any comments. Shardblades are so varied that a smaller blade shouldn't be too rare, so I.. implied.

Given that the rest of Dyring's statement was "..and their not supposed to be able to change once dead..", I think they meant physical size. Which is still inaccurate, and Szeth is used to wielding a more normal sized Shardblade, with nobody questioning it

The sentence structure implies that they meant to type "can't." It'd make more sense at the start of their sentence: "...have surgebinders that aren't Radiants, so having three that are Radiants says the order itself deliberately has three..." I could very well be wrong, in which case we require an answer Extesian.

By technicality, Axies was in Rysn's Interlude in Book 2.. But your probably right, whoever is in a place that has interesting stuff gets an Interlude PoV

Biggest issue I have with the idea is that I don't see how the Spren could replicate something that they didn't know happened. The other thing is that your cognitive shadow should show up in the Cofnitive Realm pretty close to where you died, and the Spren should notice something dragging souls to Braize and start asking questions. This is more speculation in my part that the Spren should be able to put 2 and 2 together, but it's possible that they didn't.

Since I'm still a proponent for a Shard of Wisdom, I'd put Ingenuity in the same set as it. For the purpose of fitting in with your idea, how similar would Wisdom be to either your Sight or Transcendence? Following the premise that the Shards influence the world they inhabit towards their Intent, it should create a world filled with clever people. Ramifications of cleverness on the magic system seems contrived, since the higher tiers of every magic system needs a smart/clever individual to crack the secrets. Perhaps even the basic aspects of the magic are highly complex? Actually... the magic system might be so simple that it hurts, to keep the clever from acting too high and mighty. Brandon might even pull an inverse between being clever and having imagination. It'd be less well defined than his other works, but a lack of hard limits will wreak havoc on a mind trying to find the best things. Just look at how insane we have gone trying to parse through the unknowns in his well defined systems

Tanavast was Honor. Up til he got splintered and his cognitive shadow merged with the Stormfather. Otherwise, your idea doesn't have any fundamental holes in it that I can see.

I thought it had to do with moving blood. Hrmm.. The number differences between Inquisitors and Mistings told you to ask nicely

Technically, I thought we were basing it more off Book 1, since the Final Empire is the real military force to be reckoned with in Era 1 and it didn't exist in books 2&3. But that's a bit of semantics. Regarding Radiants: I mentioned generic Radiants and probably said generic Mistings earlier in the thread. I don't like the idea of using specific characters, mostly because they seem OP by virtue of their Main Character Status. They are functionally the same, but I've found that we debate with less bias if we distance ourselves a bit. The spikes would get weaker as they were reused, and eventually become useless. That'd take a few host deaths, but time spent spiked in a dead body should decay the spike a bit too, yes? (Have we ever asked Brandon this?) But that's the spirit of good debates. If there's a clearly wrong answer, devil's advocate can only get you so far. But when you don't know for sure, you have to get creative and figure things out. It's theorycrafting of a different sort. As additional fuel for the discussion, I have figured out why Inquisitors could control Koloss. Spikes granting Duralumin From that same Annotation, we learned that Atium Mistings were very rare and that only TLR, his Atium Mistings, and a few Inquisitors even knew they existed. Basically, this is definitive about how few there are and why they would only be involved in a last resort should TLR see fit to send them. We also know that "Not all Inquisitors had the same spikes" so some will have F-Gold like Kar did, others will have A-Duralumin, etc.. They didn't even all have Atium.

Well, we know that Hemalurgy was technically known because of Alendi's "piercings of the Hero" (probably the WoB you are referring to) That said, Allomancy had to be known in some form during that time since Alendi was a Seeker. (I think there was a WoB saying that Alendi was one of the first Mistings, but i cannot find it on theoryland) Edit: Found it (its in the Annotations...)

I am 98.6% certain that we have WoB stating that it was writer's coincidence, or at the very least, it did not have a secondary meaning involving Ati. I cannot find it however, which is likely the same issue you had before making this topic. As a sidenote, the phrase "Ati was the original holder of the Shard Ruin" has existed on his coppermind article in some variation since August of 2011. And then there is this from 2012.

@Hawkido I see what you mean now, mostly. Regarding your WoB's, I was halfway right about what I remembered. Anyways, him being inherently more powerful should be because of him not investing, his nature could refer to Rayse's craftiness, but that's semantics. Skill and ability could refer to the fact that he's gained experience through "practice," un-dispersed power was already mentioned, numbers relates to the help Bavadin gave him "in some way." I'm not equating the second one as the same category of answer as the other two though. Odium breeds hatred, D&D's people seem to have both devotion and an interest in dominion, Honorable people are involved with the KR, etc.. Additionally, if he has the power to cause others to feel hatred, then shouldn't the other Shards have the same ability with their own Intents? What would be stopping Honor from inspiring Odium to be honorable and question his actions? Or Preservation dulling Ruin's edge by making him feel more preservative(is this correct word usage?) While that fits google's definition, I don't think a cycle like that fits with how Resonance is defined in the Cosmere.

He can't have learned about Hemalurgy from the Well b/c the Well is pure Preservation. Ruin whispered to TLR how to make those constructs while he was ascended, for his "plan." The Inquisitors did experiment, whether it was of their own accord or by TLR's orders we don't know, but they never actually got anywhere new, which Sazed took to be a testament to Hemalurgy's complexity. Trial and Error.

@Hawkido Insert WoB's with sketchy confirmations of "help against D&D" here. In terms of quantifying it, I would consider it a time-based math. Once a Shard has fully invested in a World, it's as high as it can go. The point is that once invested, you would have to manually recollect it and disconnect from the world in order to leave at full strength. Otherwise you would have to rip away from the world(which has all manner of repercussions, aside from being damaging/painful) and leave that chunk of power there. So I don't actually know for sure. Did he actually say "something more?" I semi-remember something along the lines of "not specifically this or that thing" but I thought it was ambiguous enough to be a combination of those things. Also, you've lost me on why you are bringing Resonance into it. What does that have to do with this?

Okay.. Some clarifications: 1. The Stormfather is merged with Honor's Cognitive Shadow, and is close enough to a Shard in my opinion to be excluded. I'm open to objections since I'm not actually "in charge" of this thread. 2.1 Per Erunion's post back near the beginning, we/they decided upon a neutral third world as the battleground to get rid of Highstorm damage and the Mists so it's more fair. 2.2 TLR could survive a Highstorm with ease. Both Decapitation and Vertical Bisection are confirmed to be healable by Double Gold, so a blunt force equivalent is gonna be survivable. Nobody else in Era 1 can do this, but that's besides the point. 3. I'm not sure whether we would allow Nightwatcher Boons. I'd expect them to not be very common, and not always be something expressly useful in battle... Maybe every now and then some soldiers have better odds of survival via a boon, but it's not gonna be game breaking. 4.1 Most, if not all, types of Voidbringers were excluded by virtue of time period rather than b/c they are against Rosharans. Stormform and the Unmade are probably the only things that got bypassed due to their alignment. 4.2 I think that Chasmfiends are neutral, but we didn't include them because the logistics of taming them to actually use is a bit ludicrous. Axehounds and Chulls should've been included, since those are able to be domesticated. 4.2.1: Axehounds They would serve the same function as guard dogs, and as attack dogs(Axehound fighting rings are a thing in world). They participate in hunts, which I feel implies that they have some skill as bloodhounds/tracking dogs. 4.2.2: Chulls Substitute for Horses in supply caravans. They move slower than humans, but their shells are literally stone, which puts them in less danger. They are often fed grain, which should be a common resource in the neutral world. (If not, the Alethi could probably plant some of their own) They only pupate in Highstorms, so no risk of reaching that last lifecycle stage of senescence. Additionally, they look like boulders when sleeping, which makes them less likely to be attacked in a night raid or just in general. Rocks are pretty innocuous things. 5. Do we want any Proto-Radiants on the Rosharan team? Because I see two options with that: have one of each type, or have generics of the 7 we currently have. Either way, the Windrunner would have about 10-15 Squires. Any opinions?

I don't know for sure if that has any effect on his power, but one reason that he was more powerful in the past was because he didn't invest in any worlds, while the other Shards did. That gave them less currently available power to fight back, so he won. This no longer applies, as Honor trapped him in the Roshar system, forcing him to invest by proxy. So I can't give a yes/no to your question, but if your guess is right, it wasn't be the only reason he seems so strong.

It already existed, but TLR changed the landscape, burying Ruin's Pool and building a fortress above the Well. As a side effect (most likely), the Atium began to grow above the Pool, and TLR took full advantage of that once he found out what Atium did. Thus; the Pits came to be. Odds are he probably collapsed whatever cave the Atium was previously growing in while terraforming, so it picked the next closest open area to continue growing. (Magic, much like life, will find a way)

I don't know about your 2 v 3 numbers, but you make a good point about people on a lower grav world being taller. Completely forgot about that, and now we've gone an pulled a Napolean... I think your military numbers for the rest of Roshar are too high, Sea of Souls notwithstanding. Anyone else have something more definitive to argue this point than my opinion ?

Re: Semantics Anger - a strong feeling of annoyance, displeasure, or hostility Hatred - intense dislike or ill will Wrath - extreme anger Sure, Odium probably covers most of Wrath, but Divine Wrath is usually against those who "deserve it" in some way, at least in the various stories and myths that I remember. I'd actually put Wrath as an Honor/Odium pairing where Odium is the more dominant aspect, while Justice is the Odium/Honor pair where Honor is in charge.

These are actually involved in the crux of my later question that Djar mentioned: whether you could spike a second A-Power out of someone after they survive the first spiking. Basically, unless there is a second H-Chart for Stealing Points, an Atium Spike has to steal everything at once so that you can get different powers from different Bind Points. Whether it could grant a different power if you took it out of one Bind Point and put it in a different one... That remains to be seen. Either of you have any thoughts/answers on this logic?

If Dalinar were Alexander the Great, that might actually work. As it stands, I'm not so sure it'd be that simple. You could definitely take out the first row with a Sarissa Phalanx, but how many would still be usable on the second wave? The third? Koloss corpses get rather heavy when impaled on your spear. If you did a row of 12ft spears, dropped snagged ones and your next row had 9ft spears... You'd still run out by the 4th or 5th batch of Koloss running at you. Shardspear would be a different story, but that's a Radiant Exclusive item. Augmenter Fabrials could get close, but those still get weighted down by impaled corpses. Hrmm...