The One Who Connects

"A hypocrite is nothing more than a man who is in the process of changing." —Nohadon Get to age 53/54 like Dalinar, and tell me: are you the same person you were 34 years ago? 18 years ago? Even 6 years ago? There's a difference between "living a lie" and being "a changed man." Amaram illustrates projecting a lie quite well in the first two books, while Dalinar has always felt more genuine. I posted the WoB about it, so technically Brandon said it. Szeth wanted to be right. He doesn't know for sure if he is yet, but from seeing how others react to Dalinar, how others speak about him, etc.. he felt that this was finally the right choice. That's why Brandon brings up the Amaram bit. Sure, Kaladin and Co. know Amaram's honorable act is an act, but do the common people? Do the foreign/minor nobles? How long had they known each other before Dalinar learned Amaram's true nature? Logically, Dalinar should know Amaram better than most anyone, so seeing how Dalinar felt about Amaram before they split, that would've painted a positive picture in Szeth's head. The things Szeth implied from others whom he felt should "know more" about Dalinar, combined with what Szeth already knew, are what drove that decision. As I said before, the choice is understandable, even if it wasn't smart. That's the kicker here. You are rattling on about the smart decision with the benefit of hindsight. You know all these things about Dalinar that so few other people did at the time. Szeth crafted a mental picture of Dalinar's character from how others talked about him, how others spoke to him, etc.. The characters in a book don't have the full picture like we do, which takes us back to the Amaram example. We the readers, through Kaladin, knew that Amaram was a scumbag. But if we didn't have that knowledge, we'd think he was a better person from the way Dalinar and others talk about/to him. That's what happened with Szeth here. Szeth hasn't been purposely tricked, he isn't acting stupid, he's not acting nonsensical, he's simply making a choice with an incomplete picture. Military commanders do it all the time, do we say their decisions didn't make sense? No, we say they did their best with what they knew at the time. They didn't invade Ashyn now did they? They were the good guys there, and they destroyed it anyway. That is the only thing that matters in the "Voidbringer" revelation. They had these powers on Ashyn, and they abused them(somehow), and wrecked the planet. Their god told them this, and is also telling them that they will repeat that action on Roshar. They then learned that they "invaded" Roshar in the process of fleeing another planet that was torn apart by a disaster of their own making. They realize that Honor isn't making it up/exaggerating, they really did destroy a planet with their powers. Thanks to the Desolations destroying written record, they probably assume that they had the Spren Bond and the Ideals back on Ashyn too. That would mean that they thought they destroyed a planet while still following the Ideals(Honor certainly seemed to think that would happen to Roshar in spite of the Ideals). Add to that what happened to the Listeners and the Shattering of the Plains, and they are starting to see proof that they can do great damage while still maintaining their Bonds, still being the "good guys." Then when they consider Jezrien's "we won" declaration, the capture of Bo-Ado, and the incapacitation of the Listeners, they realized that they have no one else to fight but themselves. With the Desolations, there was a period of fighting and a period of rebuilding because the enemy would quite literally be gone after they won. But if they fight amongst themselves, the enemy never leaves, and the fighting would never stop. They start to imagine that a civil war probably led to destroying Ashyn, and realize they may be on the path to another one on Roshar. With the Desolations "finished," there's a lot more peace-time for Radiants to reforge ties to their homelands, and that breeds tensions with other Radiants when their respective homelands go to war. Imagine if Tukar invaded Emuli back then. Would an Emuli-born Windrunner be Oathbound to "protect" their people? A KR on the battlefield would be just as destructive as Blackthorn Dalinar, if not more, so Tukari casualty numbers might get pretty high. What happens when a Tukari-born Radiant learns that one of his fellows was slaughtering his people? What if a Reshi-born Edgedancer decides to help in the medical tent during an Alethi-Reshi border dispute? On a geopolitical scale, what happens when world leaders see the KR appearing to be "taking sides" in conflicts? The only safe play for the organization as a whole would be to not get involved, but that's gonna strain ties between the people of Emul/Tukar and their native KR. Individual Radiants are gonna have to decide between their Organization and their Homelands. The KR as a whole are gonna be forced to decide between their Neutrality and their Unity. What about the Squires, who aren't bound by Oaths yet? Individual KR of the same order have always been able to disagree on issues and oaths, and this will only make it worse. Look at Kaladin's dilemma in early Oathbringer, and imagine every Windrunner going though that: "Is it right to defend my people? What if they are the aggressors in this battle? Do I switch back and forth based on who's attacking and who's defending? What about wars in countries that I have no ties to? Lots of countries are at war, and I can't be everywhere at once.. where do I go?" Dustbringers arguing internally and externally over who's authority to be "obedient" to: their nation, their king/queen, the Bondsmith, their order, etc.. Bondsmiths struggling to maintain some semblance of unity as everything(orders, nations, peoples) crumbles around them. The list goes on.. In the face of all this, that "invasion" was merely the missing piece of the puzzle, the little push that set the dominoes in motion. Given enough time, that push could have come from elsewhere. Perhaps the strain broke a few KR's Bonds one day, showcasing a very real threat to them. It might be going slowly, but it was happening. Maybe next time an entire Order goes. How would the KR(or the world) be changed if suddenly, there were no more Windrunners? Would the remaining Orders be able to learn from it, or would the damage have been done? They had to take action before it got that bad, but what could they do? They were being pulled in a different direction at every turn, to the point that doing anything while being a KR could weaken/break their Bond. This is what I see as the cause of the Recreance. No single event, but the combination of everything was piling up, limiting their options until the only winning move was not to play. Without the Desolations, the KR saw a world that no longer needed the Nahel Bond, so they decided to end it on their own terms, rather than resisting it until they snapped. The in-book revelations seem like weak reasons because they're just pieces, and the truth requires tying these revelations together.

It may be because he'd already gone through it with Gavilar(and he might not see eye to eye with the group either), but Amaram seemed to think that Dalinar's visions were legit.

I need it, and I need it now. Honestly, there's so much open space that could be filled in the Infinity Blade Universe, it's unreal. The massive time-gap between the events of the flashbacks and the current story in IB: Redemption(per Jori: ~10,000 yrs) The story leading directly into IB 1 could use a little extra fleshing out Multiple continents to explore(IB Earth has the same issue as Reckoner's Earth in this regard) The "heaven" revelation in the Kingdom Come expansion from IB 3, the vague reference to rebellious Deathless in the alternate ending of IB 1 So many characters with story potential The Great Pact, the Bog Giant/Moss Golem, the MX-series mechs/robots, etc... The worldbuilding potential is almost endless, and (if they need incentive) I'm sure ChAIR could make good money off it if they got a skilled writer.

The SR has templates that should prevent that. There'd be a template for Human(or Human Male) that healing a human would try to emulate. It's filtered by your cognitive perception, which is why healed humans aren't cookie-cutter copies of each other. But the level of deviation from the template starts to reach into the realm of plausibility.

What do you think?

It's not like the ideas were right anyway. Gavilar leads a country he forcibly united through war and conquest, forced the Highprinces into line through rather.. brutal methods(Yenev), is a member of a secret society that's at war with another one, is trying to reawaken ancient gods and cause global catastrophe, etc... I think he's earned the right to be overly paranoid. It's also probably worth noting that he suggests Sadeas' name last.

Unkeyed - No identity lock, anyone who already has access to the power can use the medallion. Unsealed - no lock whatsoever, anyone at all can use the medallion. Hemalurgic Spikes work by grafting on the portion of Spiritweb that allows someone to use a power. Without that bit of Spiritweb, they cannot use that power. Unsealed Medallions bypass this restriction through unknown means.

Thaidakar: The Ghostbloods could want to take him out because he's a Son of Honor, and thus a rival. In this we agree. Restares: The Sons of Honor aren't exactly home to the most honorable people. Or.. maybe they operate like the Diagrammists, where individuals can act on their own initiatives when not on assignment. Gavilar's sudden treaty might not have been a sanctioned decision, but a spur of them moment thing while out on the Plains. He saw an opportunity to advance the plan(Eshonai's Prologue shows this), so he acted on his own. His motivations for the treaty may have been one of the things he was discussing with Amaram. Sadeas: With Gavilar gone, Sadeas and Dalinar both had a decent chunk of influence on young Elhokar. The "puppet-ruler" play is what Dalinar initially suspects happened to the "enfeebled" King Taravangian, so it's a play Gavilar couldn't outright dismiss. Perhaps they had been having arguments about how things were done in the kingdom, similar to Dalinar & Sadeas's interactions in WoK/WoR. Like Nohadon said: "We never lack men and women who wish to lead."

Oh no? You are generalizing, when not all Spren are the same. Take.. Spark, or Ivory. If Spark is 60/40 in favor of Cultivation's Investiture, does that make them a Cultivation Spren? Then they get corrupted, and the ratio is 30/20/50 in favor of Odium's Investiture, does that suddenly make them an Odiumspren? Ooh, here's a better example. As an Honorspren, Syl is probably 90/10 in favor of Honor's Investiture. Say her corrupted ratio is 45/5/50 in favor of Odium's Investiture. Does that make her an Odiumspren now too? A case could be made that a corrupted Ashspren could be "of Odium," but you can't make that argument with a corrupted Honorspren. We don't know the ratio for Truthwatcher Spren, so an argument can't be made either way. We don't know the type of Spren that Truthwatcher's Bond. We do know that Glys appears to be a corrupted version of a Truthwatcher Spren. That isn't up for debate. He has Progression, which is limited to Edgedancers and Truthwatchers on the KR side. Wyndle(Edgedancer) is a vine, not a crystal, and he doesn't glow either. If Kaladin bonded with a corrupted Syl, still had normal Gravitation, and a new power theorycrafters could easily assign to Adhesion, would you consider him as a Windrunner?

It's no different than when Kaladin wanted to serve on the Plains in WoK: Reputation. When you really think about it, you realize how it could have gone bad(as Brandon mentions). This highlights the difference between an understandable decision and a smart decision: hindsight. Was it a smart choice? Time will tell. Was it an understandable choice in the moment? Yes. So.. a few things: 1) The Diagram says that the cost is irrelevant, and he's taken that to heart. He's always been willing to risk the many to save the few, so why is this time any different? 2) At this point, the world isn't exactly in the best shape. When contemplating the end of all things, people will cling to any plan they can reach, regardless of it's viability. This leads back into (1) somewhat, but the Diagram had a plan that had been working fine for years. We as a species crave order. It's not in our nature to just abandon something that comprehensive(and decently accurate) in favor of no plan at all. If Taravangian had had a backup plan to fall back to, then he might have done so. But he only had the one basket, and it's better to carry a dozen eggs in a basket with holes in it than to try and carry them in your hands. 3) Why should he start questioning it now? He's always been aware that the Diagram got less accurate the further into the future it got. It's one thing for the Diagram to just suddenly start being wrong, but it's always been only 95-99% accurate. Some minor details have been a little bit off(Veden Succession War escalated a bit quicker than predicted), but it's been getting worse as time went on, so expecting more major details to start being a little off was to be expected. That's why(from his WoR interlude) he'd been hoping for another brilliant day, so he could augment the Diagram with more recent knowledge. It's also why he's been collecting the Death Rattles, to use their more recent future-sight while he waits for his own. And before you say that that info-gathering could be misleading him, he knows. They're gonna get Flashback books of their own in the future, and in Lift's case, she's already had the Edgedancer Novella. Reducing their page time in the early books makes sense, especially since some of our important front five characters will be diminished in the back five. Rshara is saying that that wasn't the direct reason for the Recreance. It was supplementary. Honor promised that they would destroy Roshar the way they did Ashyn, and then(indirectly, by learning that they were the Voidbringers who "invaded" when fleeing their own world), they learned that they did in fact destroy Ashyn. 50 minutes ago: 9 minutes ago: These statements are not the same.

Having found this WoB for the first time, thoughts on this?

That's the general gist of it, yes. The giant spoiler tag in my post detailed what I've been saying quite thoroughly. Thank you for clarifying, but my words remain the same. On it's own, the revelation that "Shalash is someone else" has no real impact to it. It needs more. What does our imposter stand to gain by pretending to be a Herald? What were Shalash's motives in not coming forward? What does Shalash stand to gain by (presumably) coming forward to reveal that our imposter is an imposter? I see what I did now. The question where we learned that Ash is Baxil's Mistress is dated for after WoR released, so I assumed that meant Baxil's Mistress was in WoR. That's on me for not checking further(and probably forgetting that the source notes on wiki articles are in the order they appear in the article, rather than chronological order) So Liss can't be Chana because she's described as plump? There's this thing called body types, you know. Secondly, our heralds have had more than enough time to change their physiques/lifestyles. As you mention, Jezrien let himself go and lost that regal bearing, but Nalan seems to have kept himself in good shape running around the continent. Shalash still has an association with art/beauty, albeit for different reasons. Why not have Chana change her occupation, but keep her association with combat/violence from her soldiering days? Occupationally, an assassin doesn't have to do practice drills every morning, which Chana might've done as a soldier/general. Assuming the contracts pay well, an assassin eats better(and more) than Chana would've done on Braize. Chana hasn't been running about battling a Desolation either. Is it so hard to believe that someone could put on a few extra pounds by living a less active lifestyle like that? Rather than a WoB, that footnote appears to reference this footnote. Since there's too many disparate posts to quote snippets of, I'm just gonna do it this way: @insert_anagram_here, @Calderis, @RShara Here is my reply to everything from the quoted post above onwards. Taking the WoB in sections: Pretty self-explanatory. Brandon is fairly confident that we've met at least one member of every order. This does not guarantee that they are currently a KR, or that they've had a PoV. (The referenced "WoB from a previous signing" does not appear to be on Arcanum, by the way.) I'm seeing something like: "A Dustbringer is eventually going to be a PoV character, but they haven't been a PoV yet, unless you count the Heralds as part of their order." He basically says that whether or not we've already had a "Dustbringer" PoV depends on whether or not you count the Heralds as part of their Orders. Does that make sense to y'all? The problem with this is that it implies a few things, and in the Pre-OB time-frame, they're all bad. It almost sounds like he's saying we've had one of the Heralds be a PoV character already. Given "Dustbringer" and "Herald," he's either directly referencing Chana, or one of the other Heralds has already joined the Dustbringers. This has been gnawing at the back of my mind for months. Without counting the Heralds, there is an order that we haven't even met a character of yet. Thanks to our main cast, we've met a Non-Herald member of every order but Dustbringers and Stonewards already. Brandon essentially told us that none of the Non-Herald characters we've met in the first two books are members of one of those Orders(likely Dustbringers, given the last snippet). This is where having that original WoB would come in handy. Depending on the tense/wording, Brandon could've been saying we've met a current member of every order, or we've met someone who's gonna be a member of each Order. The latter would disqualify every single Non-Herald we've "met" from being potential Dustbringers, which would be a big deal. As Calderis mentions, Dustbringer Chana makes sense, and thus can't be complicated. And in the wake of Nalan properly joining his own Order, I don't think we could consider Chana doing that as "complicated" either. Come to think of it, the WoP that we've seen Chana on-screen makes me curious if that qualifies as having "met" her or not, because of the complicated/weirdness of us having met a Dustbringer.

I'll admit I was somewhat.. dismissive, but I've also noticed that I tend to lean towards bluntness the longer I spend working an a post. Time-sinks are kinda bothersome, and this one got to the point of wading through 6 tabs all at once(this wob, that wob, a reddit entry, death rattles, page 1 of this thread, shalash's wiki page, etc..). There was also a bit of frustration at having to search for roundabout WoBs creeping into my typing, now that I think about it. And uh.. it appears that my bluntness got pretty apparent towards the end of my post. Sorry about that @insert_anagram_here I think you misread me(or I'm misreading you now, which is just as likely). It will do both: Each book will focus on an Order, and each book will focus on a flashback character. But because the flashback character is not a member of an order during their flashbacks(the Heralds are a special case), they do not focus on an Order. The story can have a sub-focus on a KR Order, but the flashbacks themselves do not have that focus. That's what I meant by "Book, not flashback character." Must've missed that. I remember reading something to the tune of "Ash(the OB character) is really Chana," but don't remember you linking it to Baxil's Mistress. Oh well. I'll continue to disagree on her being Chana, but I'm curious what your reasoning is regarding this supposed identity-theft. The Jezrien's daughter entry is pre-WoR, meaning that Baxil(and his mistress) didn't technically "exist" to be linked to yet. Kinda hard to link something to a book character when that book isn't out yet. Shalash doesn't have enough statues for there to be two people doing it. Per Brandon: Baxil's Mistress has broken every Shalash statue we've seen(or seen the lack of). This means that either Baxil's Mistress is Shalash, or Shalash is doing something else to "scratch out her own eyes." We agree that the lady in the rattle is Shalash(as your later posts show), which means the question you need to answer is: If not destroying her statues, what is Shalash doing to satisfy the rattle? I... don't see it. What impact is there to be had in "Ash" is not Shalash? So far, it seems like it'd be a plot twist for the sake of having a plot twist, and we both know Brandon is a better writer than that. If he's doing this, he'd have a reason, and so far, I don't see one, or even hints of one. In several of our cases(myself, Extesian, Calderis, Weltall, Oversleep, and others) this "rush to reply" is called "currently being online." I check my unread content feed every few minutes sometimes. And when we get into the swing of debating, replies fly back and forth in minutes(ask Hoiditthroughthegrapevine about that ). It only feels like a rush to "dismiss" people's theories because it's easier to formulate a post around something you disagree with, rather than a completely separate theory. If you think something is wrong, you usually have a reason, and suddenly boom, half a paragraph is already typed. But if you get hit with something you've never considered before, you have to spend extra time thinking it through, and then work out some form of reply. I also mentioned the people I did in the parentheses for another reason. They are people who've gotten quite good at finding WoBs, and finding them quickly. If there's a WoB that pokes a hole in, provides support for, or dismisses a theory, we'll be able to find it quickly, especially if it's one we've used before. So a reply from one of us will be much faster than a reply from the average poster, whether positive or negative. It's normally not that bad(normally). But some things have been mostly proven, or largely accepted for long enough that people consider them as fact more readily than fringe theories. "TLR vs anyone" ending in "TLR wins" is one such example. It's readily accepted as fact, and challenging such an agreed upon notion(even if you have sound logic behind you) is gonna get met with pretty stiff resistance. The Ghostblood's motivations are not as agreed upon, so a theory detailing some new interpretation is gonna be met more with questions than disagreement. I know that logic was flawed, but we _must_ have seen Chana on-screen because we have. (Seemed kinda relevant to the current discussion regarding Chana) Besides, it's not like Malata was particularly soldierly in appearance either. Bravery/Obedience come in all shapes and sizes. The current consensus clearly isn't used to having more than two options, and we have nearly a dozen at this point. Her becoming a Dustbringer is but 1 of them(and not the one I support).

Fair enough, but you know how we love our technicalities around here.

"Was" vs "Is" vs "Will be" (I consider the tense to be rather important this time) Brandon said that the flashback character would not always be part of the focus Order. And so I suggested (this was back before we knew she was dead) that she didn't even have to be a part of an order at all during her book in order to satisfy what Brandon said. Unless our flashback character is currently bonded to a Nahel Spren, either during the main story or one of their flashbacks, then I do not count them as part of that Order during that Order's book. Assuming Book 4 is the Willshaper book: Eshonai could have lived and become a Willshaper during Book 5, and that'd satisfy the "not always the same," since she wasn't a KR during that Order's book. The same can be said for her being dead, and thus not in an Order. So that's why I don't consider her as a "Willshaper Flashback Character" (at the moment). Am I making sense, or are my thoughts still disorganized?

You are equating two things that are not the same. Each book will focus on an Order. Book, not flashback character. We know we will learn about all 10 Orders. We do not have confirmation that our 10 Flashback people will be of those Orders. Eshonai certainly isn't. "destroys Shalash's statues." Whether you intended to or not, you are referring to Baxil's Mistress, whom we see do just that during Baxil's Interlude. Per this WoB, Reddit, a Death Rattle, this WoB(and the above), we have pretty indisputable confirmation that Baxil's Mistress is, in fact, Shalash. Per the death rattle, the woman in question is daughter of kings and winds. As Herald of Windrunners, Herald of Kings, and a former King, Jezrien fits the bill. Per the final WoB, Shalash is the daughter of Jezrien, which would make her the woman in the Death Rattle. Per the death rattle, the woman scratches out her own eyes. The woman is Shalash, so she scratches out her eyes in the form of taking out Shalash statues. Per the second set of WoBs, Baxil's Mistress is Ash, which is another name for the Herald Shalash. Per the first set of WoBs, Baxil's Mistress is destroying statues of Shalash. So what we've learned here is: The Woman in the Death Rattle is Shalash. The Woman in the Death Rattle is destroying Shalash Statues. Baxil's Mistress is destroying Shalash statues. Shalash is known as "Ash," and Baxil's Mistress is "Ash." I used the word "indisputable" for a reason. Assuming that Ash/Baxil's Mistress is anyone other than the Herald Shalash is illogical, and has been since July 13, 2016(which is when Brandon gave us the "youngest" of these WoBs).

What metal plates? Marsh may be able to read them, but the caverns(and cities) are built around metal rich areas, which prevents Ruin from easily seeing them. He may have known such a cache exists, but how was Ruin to know the difference between a metal plate with writing, the metal cans, and the surrounding metals? Ruin's tunnel vision has betrayed him more than once, so him overlooking a supply cache as simply supplies isn't too unreasonable.

Well, he did all the things he did in mere seconds, from the perspective of us mortals. So, technically, the power did fade away before he could do too much. But it's largely what Weltall said. Holding the power expanded his mind and granted him knowledge, but it didn't give him everything, nor did he make the mental choice to search out other knowledge(hence this Returned question). Compounding is a hack, and one that he probably discovered himself. If this is true, then his method of "immortality" was discovered after using the power. He may not have planned to live forever, and adjusted the plan as time went on. Had he made it to the refilling of the well, it's entirely likely that he would have tried to give himself a better form of immortality.

Investiture messes things like that up.

Lanceryn's went nearly extinct from normal hunters during the Scouring of Aimia, which is much more recent than the False Desolation. (This is also what was happening to the Chasmfiends, before the war left the plains) Unless I'm misremembering, the only time this Larkin has eaten any investiture(on-screen) is that Voidlight, so we don't have another Investiture to compare it too. Yes, there's the other Larkin, but... it only took a paltry sum from Lift back in WoR(about a donut's worth, IIRC). And Lift thought it looked frail and starved. It's perfectly logical for energy to be devoted to recovery before growth(which may have been why it was being starved, to prevent that growth). What I'm saying is that growth from consuming food is related to the amount of food consumed, and I believe that this one consumed more.

He was offered a Shard that we haven't seen yet.

@The One Who Connects said it's this one: I don't have time to look for the transcription doc if there is any. I pulled it out of WoBinator 4000. I'd like to admit to being wrong. It's actually this one, which isn't on Arcanum (which was hidden in a spoiler tag, which is why I couldn't find it on here.)

Food is Food. Larkins eat Investiture. It stands to reason that they should all work.

We have an example of a child who returned, and Lightsong mentions him rapidly maturing/aging to adulthood before the agelessness took hold. So, I'd imagine that they start as they were, and are gradually shaped. Taking it to the child, most of the Returned probably see it as simply natural. You don't go from boy to man in a day, so why would you go from mortal to god in an instant? (I mean, they kinda do, but you get what I'm saying) Blushweaver the Honest. She's the one who petitioned to be renamed Blushweaver the Beautiful. She chose to be beautiful, and it worked. (Might this have been Brandon doing a plain sight hint about the whole perception thing?) Beauty is shaped by general perception though, so you're right about that.

I just saw them as old enough to have learned/experienced so much that they see the mundane as beneath them. Take TLR as an example, since he'd been around long enough to stop caring, and realize that several members of the Ire are even older than he is. It doesn't make people love you. It instills a sense of calm and tranquility. Also, taking it back to Mistborn... Possibly. Still takes it back to that bit of the Ars Arcanum: That said, if you programmed the Aon to run forever(or for a year, to test it), then you could have the Elantrian activate it and then be fine for a while. (This is what i think you were implying)