The One Who Connects

On the subject of Identity with getting the power spiked out of you, what is different about burning your Metalmind to compound vs accessing it normally? We know that Miles could burn his Metalminds because they "still have a spiritual connection to him" but that the taker might have enough stolen identity to access his Metalminds. This not only means that the spiker gains some of his Identity, but that Miles would actually lose some of his Identity in the process. This implies that the remaining connection to his Metalminds might not be Identity, at least in the way we understand it. What does everybody else in the thread think? And this is a lesson (to myself mostly) in the value of perusing old AMA's. They make you think. It's in the WoB that they and 8bit were arguing about.

I knew it felt like my meager programming knowledge was somehow helping me interpret. Never actually used booleans, so that might be what confused me. I got most of it right at least. Except for this line where I was just wrong. Which makes me sad, since I understood somewhat similar logic on the "neither a or b" equals "not a and not b"

Here's something. Different time, different place, but its the validation the Coppermind uses.

Probably wouldn't have worked without Durlaumin in Kelsier's time, but in the modern era? It depends on how low Sazed made the threshold when he changed it. Edit: In the past, someone brought up how they never mention snapping in Era 2 as an idea that it was gone, so... perhaps it is low enough to easily happen without much manipulation since Sazed couldn't get rid of it entirely

I had a similar concern with a certain Dula in the Interludes. Demoux can just do that scene while/after filming Mistborn, but it'd be weird for Galladon to do that scene and then be on standby to come back years later for Elantris. Other option would be to have a random actor for the Interlude and cast Galladon the normal way when they make Elantris, but then you have the same issue Marvel had with who's gonna be playing the Hulk in this movie..

Thanks for finding the post. Now for me to ponder how I missed this when I perused the entirety of the theories section to catch up on current events when I came back the to forums...

I agree with you, but that was only my interpretation of Pattern's logic puzzle. I mentioned being confused more than once, so for all we know, I misunderstood something important and drew the wrong conclusion from it. If that is what they meant, then you've made your counterargument. Speaking of your statement, it seems like an unkeyed Metalmind would be limited to producing the A-power or the F-power. For the purpose of discussion while we wait for Pattern and 8bit to respond, what do you think burning an unkeyed would lead to?

I'm pretty sure that Brandon has stated somewhere that Kelsier is not in charge(question might've been "who is in charge," so could've been a RAFO) Given his meeting with Nazh & Khriss, and his interaction with the IRE, I wouldn't put it past him to be getting involved with yet another group of people who get in over their heads sometimes. About Demoux, it's a good guess given how similar the names are, but I'm not sure. We know that Demoux's wife is also in the Seventeenth Shard, but we don't know who convinced the other to join second so...

Identity is understood to be a Spiritual Attribute(hence why it is in the Spiritual Quadrant of Feruchemy) There is also this Relevant WoB, which combined with Pattern's first WoB helps us sort this out. [Noticed your quote on next page. VenDell basically confirms it to be a spiritual thing] Underline added. Relevant segment of Pattern's WoB here for clarity. The Spiritual Ideal/Template is what the power wants to heal you to, and it gets filtered through your Identity and your Cognitive aspects of how you see yourself(Lopen's arm, Kelsier's Scars, etc..) so you get healed to yourself, rather than the exact spiritual template for "human" / "human male" or something similar Since Identity is a Spiritual Component, it consists of this non-power connection by being in the Spiritual. I'm not saying that the connection is more important than Identity, I'm saying that some of this connection are his Identity. His identity is connected to him, thus why it is his identity. The goldmind recognizes the matching Identity, so it still believes that he can access the power. (You didn't quote anybody, so if this statement wasn't aimed towards me then I apologize.) I suppose that this could potentially answer your Steel Spike question, in a way [This is kinda the same argument Pattern made on the next page, which I only noticed later] Let me try my luck at understanding (A => FP) : Misting burns their own Metalmind (A) --> Gets Feruchemical Power (FP) (C => AP) : Misting burns someone else's Metalmind (C) --> Gets Allomantic Power (AP) (!FP => !A) (!AP => !C) : Getting this power does not automatically mean that they are burning a Metalmind? @Pattern please clarify (! B = A or C => FP or AP) : Misting burning an unkeyed Metalmind (B) is not the same as burning their own/someone else's(A or C) Not sure why FP/AP are there is that was all they meant though... Never mind, I get it now Burning an unkeyed Metalmind(B) is not the same as burning a keyed one(A or C) to get the powers(FP/AP) (! (FP OR AP) = !FP AND !AP => !(!B ) = B : Give me a minute or Six. Too many !'s implying "not"... Not(FP or AP) equals Not FP and Not AP (makes sense I guess?) : Not getting either power == not getting any power Not(Not B ) equals B (also somewhat makes sense) : Implications Unclear, Double Negative unkeyed Metalmind == unkeyed Metalmind Not FP and Not AP equals B (much clearer when separate): Not getting any power from burning implies burning an unkeyed Metalmind

I've done that more than once too. No worries

I'm not disputing the idea of your post, since a focus that isn't a physical item shouldn't really show up in the cognitive. Although, Roshar should have a bead for language so Commands might... Anyway, my only question is do you have a source for this? I haven't heard this, and it would be nice to have another focus confirmed

I am not talking about Connection as a power, which does do what you describe. I am talking about the Spiritual Realm itself, which is built upon connections. Kelsier sees it through Preservation, seeing how Preservation is connected to everything via ribbons of flowing light, and Ruin via black tendrils. Quoth Kelsier: Life experiences help shape who you are, so in a way, your Connections to the past shape your Identity now. Anything that you have an association with in the Physical, you have a connection with in the Spiritual. Your friends, your experiences, your powers, all of it. The whole of creation is a collection of Connections.

Hadn't even considered that you could essentially videochat with the room to see what you are awakening. That's clever. Now we just have to ask about Breath and travel time.. I will say that Vasher is the only mention of Mental Commands I can find so we have no idea on how it works. I would assume it requires vision of the target, but that's covered via CCTV

Vin can sense the power because of the Investiture stored in the Metalmind. She senses power, but has no connection to it. Miles still has a connection to it, since Metalminds are keyed via Connection to your Spiritweb and to your Identity. Connection seems like the spiritual link in this instance. Your Spiritweb is connected to you via sDNA. Your Identity is another kind of connection (Note: I realized after typing this that I strayed into the MAG portion of F-Aluminum's coppermind page) Tapping Identity makes you less susceptible to manipulation and reinforces deeply held convictions, which implies to me that it increases your connection to who you really are and what you believe, while Connection as a unique power alters your connections to places and other people. Meaning that Miles should still have at least one type of connection to his Metalminds

Ashe, Eshe, Shao, Sheo. All of the other known Aons follow the 3 letter pattern though, so it has a lot of merit. Actually, we could follow the "Sh, Th, etc.." being a single letter like in Alethi and then these fit too.

For the PA system idea, absolutely. Not only remembering what is in the rooms so you can visualize them, but to keep track of what is already awakened. Not exactly sure if you can store the mental image of your commands, but you can store the specific wordings of your commands.

Figures I'd overlook Era 1 Ars Arcanum, but I assumed it would have a source to it on at least one of those pages. Edit: it makes sense now that I think about it, since Marsh's MAG thing, via Inkthinker, mentioned him having an Aluminum spike a little before Harmony, which was in HoA.

Well, there are a few thing related to the subject, but not necessarily the exact scenario. here here and here

I imagine that it requires the actual voice, or a very high quality sound system. Meaning I also believe that it is within the user's natural range(which could be enhanced by shouting, but...) The main thing about this magic system is that those limitations are more or less irrelevant for a fair amount of time. The big thing with Awakening is your visualization. Your mental image of a command makes all the difference, so if you cannot see the items you are awakening, there may be.. complications due to a lack of visualizing the item doing the action. Say he could awaken anything in the castle via the PA system, it wouldn't serve much purpose since he doesn't specifically remember what is in half of those rooms. He may awaken something and then revisualize a new command later, but picturing the same item, and then it wouldn't stick. Not to mention the travel time of the breath to the object, etc... Basically, there are too many uncertainties or mental capacity thresholds that need to be reached for this idea to be proved/disproved. But I like the idea, as it gives a different level of depth to the future of the world(something we've only really considered for Scadrial and possibly Sel) Now I wonder if a Robot could awaken if you gave it enough Breath...

I know this goes back to the MAG, but Inkthinker did say that they ran a lot(if not all) of the stuff past Brandon, and Marsh's page has him with Gold Spikes so they must do something useful. Actually, the alloy doesn't always steal the Allo/Feru powers. Aluminum steals Enhancement Allomancy. It's on the Metallic Arts page, the Hemalurgy page, and on Aluminum's page, but technically lacks any source citation. While it lacks source notation, I checked the edit histories. It's been on the Metallic Arts page since March 27, 2011. The Hemalurgy page since September 12, 2010. And the earliest existing edit on the Aluminum page is from 2016, but it was there too.

There was a thing somewhere that an Awakener could gift Nightblood Breath, but that he[Nightblood] couldn't use those for Awakening No idea for other magics though

Roshar was specifically grown by Adonalsium, and was not the only world made that way. Adonalsium's intent was to create sentience. So he quite literally was a force of creation. Whether or not he made everything, we don't know. Personal Opinion: I see no reason for a god not to have Ambition. A lazy god gets nothing done(just ask Lightsong) and Adonalsium got lots of things done. I'd have used the word "Drive" but the average reader will likely understand Ambition better than Drive, so I agree that it is likely the best describing word Brandon could use. Actually, given his intent was "to create sentience" that could be partially shaped into his drive, his want, his ambition to create. I like caution as a counterpart to ambition: (drive to act/reason not to act) Not entirely arguing your interpretation of Revolution, but the google search definitions I found are slightly different that the ones you posted. I always saw revolution in the circular way, where the wheel keeps turning, so to speak. Examples being things like the Water/Carbon cycle, always repeating, never stopping. It still fits within some of your idea, depending on the perspective. Quoth you: I agree with this statement, but: The revolution of the water cycle shakes up the status quo, as water doesn't just sit in a pond for eternity. But it also makes it's own status quo if you look at the cycle from far enough away. Revolution would be a Shard of Change, but also of Cycles/Patterns, things that are not static. Edit: Well, just realized I may have made an argument for Shards being in sets of 4.

For the purpose of a non-Scadrian God-Metal, it depends. Lerasium can be burned by anybody, but Atium cannot be. I imagine that some of the other God Metals are like Atium in this respect, and/or follow that same effect for Feruchemy. They may not register as being viable unless/until that Shard went and Invested in Scadrial. Additionally, Brandon has said more than once that we are "assuming that they[Shardblades] are not Allomantically inert." If they are inert, they probably shouldn't be viable at all.

Brandon has said that an Allomancer made into a Koloss should retain their powers, but may or may not have the mental capacity to use said powers. Any supposition on the effects being a Koloss has on the powers is up for debate

I remember reading that Nightblood and Shardblades were too invested to function as Hemalurgic spikes, so I imagine they are too invested to be Metalminds. As for my Questions: General Shardic Information Would Ruin always form an end-negative magic system? Say one of the unknown Shards settles down on Nalthis. Would their resulting magic system also function via Breath or is that phenomenon limited to Endowment? Were the Shards all created at the exact same time? Or are they like twins who were born mere seconds apart? (Clarification, mostly just to get it on the record) Can holding a large amount of Investiture let you ignore the "connection" needed to pick up another Shard? (He's said Odium wont, not that he can't)