thejopen27

I have a feeling that Nightblood will end up in the hands of Odium's champion somehow.

While I agree, I don't like Taravangian... I think Super Smart Taravangian is lying in the diagram to make the average and smart Taravangian follow his plan without giving it away. The diagram comes from a gift of Cultivation (or at least the Nightwatcher, who has great ability in foresight. Super Smart Taravangian knew enough to lay that line in the exact right place, and some part of the gift of Cultivation allowed it to be highlighted in Taravangian's mind alone. (I also think the smart and average Mr. T think they are trying to make all of Roshar part of Kharbranth so Odium has to save all of it) I think Super Smart Mr. T has some secret goal/plan that he is secretly guiding his less intelligent self towards. By pursuing his specific plan to preserve a fraction of a fraction of humanity, he closes off other possibilities, he works against those who are trying to save an open ended number, as many as they can. He dooms 99% off the bat because he thinks they are doomed anyway. He has written them off. As to the behavior of Skybreakers and Malata, the Knight's Radiant are as good as the person picked by the Spren. Malata is nihilistic because her spren has given up and wants vengeance. The Skybreakers are corrupt because they are led by a madman and the rest have all sworn to obey him. The order that most sticks to a chain of command would be the one most susceptible to be corrupted by an insane leader. No other Skybreaker have advanced to the 5th ideal because no others are willing to question Nale. OB shows that the Radiant can change the moral compass of their spren over time, imagine a Highspren, the leader of the Highspren probably, who has been bonded to an insane Herald for 4500 years. The Lightspren have given up on humanity all together and Timbre has decided to try on a Singer. Until Syl and Ivory, the Honorspren and Inkspren had completely given up on Humanity. I'm very curious to meet Szeth's Highspren, one who will grow with Szeth away from the influence of Nale and the other Skybreakers. I'm also curious to meet the Decay spren who who will bond whichever POV character we get from the Dustbringers (my guess is that it's Ash. The herald of beauty and creation becomes or Radiant of destruction!)

I don't think it's quite that dark. It's something that Kaladin personally has a hard time with. Something like; "I will allow others to risk themselves, I will admit that I cannot protect everybody."

Upon a reread, I realize that the Heralds must be people from after the return of the Fused. The Stormfather says that the fused started to return and kept returning immediately after being killed. He tells Dalinar that the Oathpact was then made to stop the cycle of returns. Therefore the Heralds came from people living in the world after the end of human invasion of the greater Roshar during the first attacks of the Fused and the beginning of the Odium-Singer alliance.

Glys is a Truthwatcher spren that has been corrupted by by Sja Anat.

The only example of a fifth ideal we have is very identity focused. The Skybreaker becomes the law unto themselves. I would guess the Windrunner would admit that he is a leader.

The Oathpact was formed before the first Desolation from the Humans perspective. When the Fused started returning. Not the desolation from the PoV of the Singers.

The fused don't seem to have the ability to resist Odium. They are controlled by Odium. I'm not saying it will happen, but I just think it would be a really interesting way for Venli to have to deal with her past.

I wish we'd gotten more of Kaladin interacting with Pattern and Shallan with Syl while they could all see each other. I wish the spren had spoken during Radiant meetings.

I mostly agree with this. Also, since when do all humans agree to do the same thing. The war in Ashyn the humans were fleeing was most likely a war between human who fought with Odium/Odious power, and those who didn't. The refugees were non-Odium followers who thought they had escaped him. But Odium weaseled his way into the hearts of Men, who above all else desire power. Later Odium prayed upon the hatred and anger of the victimized Singers to switch them over. And unlike humans, who need to be cracked to let investiture in, the Singers had a built in feature that allowed it.

I cannot protect everyone, I will allow others to make their own decisions and accept that I am not responsible for every death. but more poetic

Flying ships would work with one fabrial with an adjustable upward lashing to make it weightless, climb, or sink. A second lashing that could be pointed away from wherever the ship wanted to go to be used as a rudder/propulsion, and sails to provide stabilization and propulsion

Like the previous two books, I was the most moved during the flashback scenes. In Way of Kings it was Tien's death, in Words of Radiance it was when Shallan and Wit meet at the fair. In Oathbringer it wasn't the scene you might expect. It was actually when Dalinar meets Cultivation and instead of asking to forget as I expected, or to move on, or to be a better man, he asks for forgiveness. The Cultivation-Dalinar scene is my favorite scene in all of Oathbringer.

Edit: Patrick Star beat me to this joke.

I think Venli was more compelling because she was a true believer who had her expectations shattered by the fallibility, cruelty, and disinterest of her gods. Can Eshonai come back as a Fused? Wouldn't that be a great Venli ark if she was confronted by the Odium twisted soul of her sister? It's almost like there's someone picking which characters we follow.

Were they born on Ashyn? Were they born in Shinovar before the first human/Singer war? During? After? How long after? Were they the humans around when the Fused first started coming and the Singers first switched allegiance to Odium? Jeszrien was obviously a king, Ash was apparently his daughter. Taln appears to have been a common soldier. The rest I would guess were great heroes, scholars, healers of humanity at whatever time they came from. The humans of their era may have just worshiped Adonalsium without knowing of the split. It may just be an old curse that Ash still uses. She likely knows of the split by now. Nale doesn't mention Odium in his plans to Szeth. That seems like a pretty big oversight. Quite

-The Voidbringer is Odium, Voidbringers are anyone serving Odium or using the power of the Void. The humans WERE the original Voidbringers, but are no longer. -There probably was an ancient war on Ashyn that caused the survivors to flee t Roshar, but it was likely human against human, like most wars are. -Vorinism is based on Humanity being driven from Ashyn (Tranquiline Halls) by Voidbringers (humans on Ashyn who served the Void) to Roshar. -Damnation is where the souls the Fused, the Voidspren, and the Heralds return to between Desolations, Braize. -Ashyn (TH) was destroyed by a mighty cataclysm through the use of some great power (Odium may or may not have influenced this, it may have been a human war that went to far, or it may have been humans who worshiped Odium vs. those who didn't.) -Humans who came to Roshar were initially peaceful and were sheltered by the (Dawn)singers and given a land to call home by Cultivation and Honor -But after growing discontent with the small space they were given (Shinovar) Humanity burst over the mountains into the rest of Roshar in the first desolation. When Humans, with the influence and power of Odium (who probably whispered to the humans that they should expand and attack) conquered and destroyed the (Dawn) Singers. - Odium played on the resentment and anger of the Singers and turned some over to him. Odium then used some power to bind the souls of dead Singers who served him and returned them to Roshar as new Voidbringers who would bring war and destruction back to the humans. -The Oathpact was signed as a way to combat the new Voidbringers who were Singers given great power by Odium. ODIUM is the enemy. Odium is the true Voidbringer. He does not care who wins, humans or Singer. He wants hate, violence, and murder to spread. His intent is Odium; an intense hatred. He wants to see the world burn. His current enemy is humanity because humanity is his current jailer, but he would burn down the entire planet if it would free him from his prison. Like many things in the Stormlight Archive and the real world, Vorinism contains bits of truth that has been distorted over time. But there are truths in there. Vorinism probably didn't exist until after the final desolation at the earliest and maybe not until after the Recreance.

We don't know when the Heralds were created, who were they? How much do they know about Odium? And always remember, Nale is still insane.

Two truths and the first ideal to get a sword in her youth. She then locks the sword away and forgets, regresses. I think the truth she swore in WoR just reawoke her sword and she now is back to the third ideal.

I just want to push back on one point you made. Nale has said he will fight for the Singers, not for Odium. We do not know how that will manifest or how Nale will interpret that. Could he fight to free them from Odium? In the end you may be right, but Nale never says he will fight for Odium, just the Singers. This is not going to go the way you think.

I think the incident that shows the Radiants the danger of their power, to prove to them that they were too dangerous to be used anymore, was the destruction of the minds of the Parsh. What one event would be so shocking to the rank and file Radiants that it would cause them doubts? The capture of Ba Ado Mishram and the resulting lobotomization of the Parsh seems like the only event shocking enough to scare the Radiants into the Recreance. The parsh were attacking near Fevrestone Keep during the abandonment of the tower. The Bondsmith and one other order (Truthwatchers? Elsecallers?) were preparing a counterattack to bind BAM, the Recreance happened soon afterwards. I assume the knights Dalinar sees abandoning their shards outside Fevrestone keep are knights who saw what happened to the Parsh and immediately decided their surges were too dangerous, while others quit over time. We're the Shattered Plains created in the Last Desolation? Also, it seems obvious that Honor was going mad at the end, perhaps losing his personality and turning into a force. In response to your Last Knight short story idea, the best candidate, who would also make a great story would be a Stoneward, one who thinks they can't give up and needs to find a last cause to die for, to fight for. I'm not sure the Radiants intentionally broke their oaths, at least not all of them. What oath do all Radiants share? Isn't the decision to destroy a whole people to end a war (intentional or not) a violation of Life before death, Strength before Weakness, Journey before Destination? Cultivation probably will sacrifice herself, but she will do it for a purpose, and having already Cultivated a new host to pick up her shard. The most obvious reason for a time skip after book five is that the contest of champions occurs and Odium is re-imprisoned, the books would repickup with Odium starting a new desolation. The Stormfather says that beating Odiums champion would buy the humans time. He won't break out of Roshar until book 10.

The Last Jedi is amazing. That is all.

I think I dropped off before that. I just disagreed and with no one arguing my point of view I decided to move on. I was more dramatic in the first post than I actually felt. It was three people on one side, and the other two leaning that way.

Sorry Guys, I had to turn you off this week. Just. So. Wrong. I disagreed with almost everything you said. I couldn't listen.

This presupposes that Ishtar has gone over to Odium.