Kurkistan

Right you are. I apologize for my mistake and thank you for pointing it out.

Okay, have a bit more time. There are some interesting thoughts here and it's cool that you took the time to put all of this stuff about the magic systems together, but I do have a few comments that occurred to me as I read your OP: Notable powers include the ability to wipe out Aons. Be sure to note that the "fuel" is always actually Preservation, with the metals just serving as a key to access it and not possessing any power in and of themselves. BioChroma might be end-neutral, also. Worth keeping in mind. There are almost certainly more end-neutral magics than just Feruchemy. Neither is the fuel, actually. It's the soul (though I guess you could file that under "life"). Also, hemalurgy might not be the only end-negative system. Maybe. It's "an oddity in the cosmere", but for all we know it has one other odd friend it hands out with. Not the ten Essenses, the ten Surges (Currently (though subject to change): Surface Tension, Transportation, Transformation, Light, Grown, Friction, Division, Pressure, and Gravity). We don't know about the KR having exclusive access. Note the existence of surgebinders before their formation. Also, we aren't sure that all "bond spren" are Honor spren. "Human shaped" and organic are the name of the game, as a statue or something is nigh impossible to awaken. Some (who I vehemently disagree with) identify color as the fuel for Awakening. I myself think that Breath is self-replenishing, and so does provide the "fuel" for Awakening, but from its "interest" rather than the "capital" of the main Breath. A bit more detail can be had here, such as how the beauty standards of returned are shaped by "cognitive ideals or concepts which have taken on literal personification over time." But still notable because they are "90% of a sentient being" and capable of being given and following multiple commands over a period of time, as opposed to regular objects only getting a single simple Command that can't be "re-written" later. Eye color also changes (to be "Lighteyed"), and once again assuming Honor for all Surgebinders is a stretch. We do know that getting magic on Roshar depends on the user's actions, though. You might not to put much stock into this. There's been a large amount of speculation that the different planets determine what "foci" are used: so it may be the case that Preservation and Ruin might have ended up having their magics use gemstones if they landed on Roshar, for example. Fair enough. Note that at least some spren were a result of Adonalsium's shattering, so were not created on purpose. Seons also only came about after Aona's death, I beleive. I recall you to discussions of Lifeless sentience. Note quite. Those Aons are actually Splinters, so they don't necessarily need to access the Dor. Are you sure? I haven't read Elantris in a while, but I seem to recall that Aons drawn on surfaces were merely inhabiting those surfaces, rather than transforming them. Feel free to smack me down if I'm wrong, though. There is discussion over whether Investing a metal with Feruchemy or Hemalurgy actually changes its Physical properties or its Spiritual. I'd wager the latter myself, especially since we know that Hemalurgic spikes steal soul-stuff directly, and become (paraphrase) "part of both the Spiritual Realm and the Physical Realm". I do not agree. All the magic systems work within the same fundamental Realmatic framework, true, and so share basic similarities as well as lawlike ways of interacting within that framework, but that doesn't necessitate that they be "intended" to work together on some higher level. That's like saying that physics working the same for water and for magnets means that they were both "made" to create hydroelectric dams, and that water and magnets were one at some point. ------- No, I don't think it does. The following is mostly speculation, so it's best to present it as such going forward. Probably. We don't know for sure, though. Also, you're off by a Realm: it's a Spiritual bond and, if the surges really are based on something more "ideal" than "magic stuff happens", I would think that they are likely Spiritual as well. -We know that seon bonds are spiritual, and spren bond in the same way. Your evidence, please? Are you so sure the Dor is Cognitive? We know that loose Shardic power makes the Cognitive Realm dangerous, but that doesn't mean that it is properly of that Realm or residing their. Most discussion of Investiture credits it as Spiritual: why the change? -For all I know we might be wrong, but there is at the very least a body of belief that Investiture is Spiritual, so what persuaded you to go against it?

See the "Victim of Auotpwail" in my member title? That stands for "actual understanding of the physical world and its limits". Suffice it to say that there have been a series of posts of mine that have left me open to the attacks of that vile foe. Talk to Satsuoni if you want the full story.

I don't quite have the time or attention to read the topic as a whole at the moment, but I can answer a few of your questions. Weird things. Burning a "powerfully invested object" (which Nightblood qualifies as) "would be very, very dangerous to try." As to the first: maybe. Nightblood and shardblades could be said to be "full" of Investiture and thus not capable of taking any more in, but there might be a way to Awaken metal less "powerfully". Probably not by default, though it could if you tried for it. Hemalurgy can steal "anything encoded on a person's soul", and we know that Breath is part of your soul, so...

Thanks.

Cool. Sorry about all that... stuff for the last month.

Maybe. You'll have to tell us how she got immortality, though. Feruchemy alone won't do the trick.

Hm. I'm not feeling it. Copper isn't much help here because copper really is quite valuable. Access to it has been a real bone of contention, historically. Entry into the priesthood is a bit of a long commitment, I think. Recall: she's not just a priestess, but a High Priestess. That implies years if not decades of experience before gaining that position.

I doubt he'd do that. He's fairly big on the free online version being complete. Either way, though, I suspect that the next re-read (which may well be by someone with a print version) will find us a few good candidates. This needs a close reading, not word-searches.

A fair set of points, Kadrok. Anyway: Back to the hunt! We only have one candidate so far, and a weak one at that!

@Feather Good work on the topical WoK quote. I guess I just fear a bit of over-investment on my own part, then. I'll just leave you crazy kids to it and tend to my lawn. @Kads You laugh at my pain!?!

11 Rep ago?

Not you too Kads! Not you too... ( )

Feruchemical nicrosil is weird and we know nothing about it. It's a bit hard to theorize anything relating to it at this point.

For the love of Cthulu don't read the Forgery one! You really only need the "Simplified" theory to get the gist of it, with the Spren one being more primitive and the Forgery one based on less evidence (because we didn't have any evidence yet) and going into far far too much detail. Like, 5,500 words type too much detail.

Sorry if I sounded negative there, I was (mostly) kidding. This is odd for me of all people to say, but I think that such in-depth character-analysis might take some of the enjoyment out of reading the books, at least for me. I feel comfortable "spoiling" all this magic-system stuff for myself because it's ultimately just the framework in which the characters and stories do their thing. But having theories and beliefs and whatnot that hinge on the core of the story is a bit more fundamental. For instance: There've been a few WoB's that I was just "huh?" with, or tidbits that contradicted rather dearly-held theories of mine. But I can (usually) move on because I don't have any emotional attachment to those theories beyond, possibly, that of a passionate academic. But if my understanding of a character were to be betrayed, I might feel a bit more strongly. Possible example: Right now I'd be willing to eat my hat if time-bubble object-acceleration isn't based on frame-of-reference. It's just what makes sense, and I see anything else as either contrived or contradictory. But I'd probably (after a long period of recovery) be fine with it if Brandon said it worked differently. I can't say that if I'd be able to get over Brandon "pulling a Mat" (to use a rather harsh example) with a character that I had a strong and well-founded a belief about the nature of, though. Is any of this making sense, or am I just a curmudgeonly magic-monger who should stop being a curmudgeon?

<out of game>No problem, just wanted to be sure it was hidden. Check the links with "Forms" in them in my sig if you have a day to burn, then get back to me </oog>

But, but, theories! *Crawls off into corner to scrawl incorrect physics onto the wall* You know my feelings on this matter, Feather.

Explicit and big Spoiler, Mailliw.

Sell. Knowing and seeing are different things. You almost ninja'd me, I'll admit. Then I hit F5. If we're doing theories... FORMS! That is all. P.S. @Feather 2 > 1.

No transcript, Shardlet is waiting on permission to repost since it was someone else's question. My author-sense is telling me that she's actually not a Feruchemist. Too many of those running around already, and she almost certainly isn't one if she's Demoux's girlfriend, what with what happened to just about all the living Feruchemists besides Sazed... I hazard that worldhoppers make a habit of hitching rides with others, so each of them needn't have the personal ability to worldhop.

Ah. Rage is Excitement. Freedom is Slavery. War is Peace. Got it. *Backs very slowly away from Tumblr*

Buy. As I've said, there's enough variety in the system to keep us endlessly entertained and exploring even without the need for mystery as to the basic power sets. We'll figure out the Terriswoman in Warbreaker by the time a Sharder next gets to ask Brandon a question on it. P.S. It's Wax and Wayne, by the way. EDIT: NINJA!!! I'll buy that too, Malliw. I don't think we'll be dragging our feet going forward.

Not to diffuse your rage, but soul-drinking swords have been par for the course in fantasy for awhile now.

My best guess so far is the nurse that takes care of Lemex (pg 109, referenced on 123, 188. PDF 1st Edition Hardcover). There's no particular reason to justify this choice beyond sheer guesswork and semi-prominence. Here's is the entirety of the descriptions of her: --- Her other prominent acts were dispossing of Lemex's body and being paid off not to talk, both off-screen.