Shardcast: Unity


Ladies and gentlemen my name is Eric and we're here to ask and answer one simple question: WTF is Unity?  What is Dalinar? Honor's Perpendicularity and why it has to move, and also, for good measure, Odium's Perpendicularity. Spren genocide, strange warmths, all manner of weirdness is discussed here. Obviously, Oathbringer spoilers, and some Mistborn Era 1 spoilers too.

This week we have Kerry (KChan) back from the dead, Eric (Chaos), Ian (WeiryWriter), David (Windrunner), and Grace (thegatorgirl). Send your Who's That Cosmere Characters to [email protected] And, as always, subscribe to Shardcast on our RSS feed: http://feeds.soundcloud.com/users/soundcloud:users:102123174/sounds.rss

 

Edited by Chaos




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Steeldancer

Posted

My theory of how the highstorms have altered Roshar scream against the idea that Honor's perpendicularity is outside of the highstorm. We've never heard of spheres being filled in any other way. I had assumed the cognitive realm had the weirdness of the perp because it's the cognitive, and it doesn't actually totally hit the exact same location in both realms. 

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The Stormfather works as a doorway for stormlight to enter the physical realm that's why the Stormfather needed to always need to have a part of him in the highstorm.

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The Horneaters do kill some of the people who try to enter the perpendicularity, they kill any forgiener who tries to "bathe" in their pools.

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Belzedar

Posted

What if Unity was the shard's name all along? Maybe "Honor" is Tanavast's Passion.

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Hello again guys! As always great podcast! I'm glad you guys were thinking some of the things I thought while reading Oathbringer! And neat to hear new thoughts as well. Dalinar is storming awesome and the part where he restores Honor's perpendicularity gives me chills Everytime! A couple thoughts: Honor clearly wasn't in his right frame of mind before he dies. I first thought "Unite them" meant Dalinar or whomever the Bondsmith was to be was supposed to unite all people's of Roshar and defeat Odium. That seems the obvious interpretation. What if perhaps he wanted the shards Honor, Cultivation, and Odium to be combined? This maybe could/would temper Odium as the shard wouldn't be it's own.  Maybe he thought that as the only way to stop Odium from shattering the rest of the shards on Roshar and eventually the other shards in the greater cosmere.  Dalinar would be the obvious candidate right now that could unite the 3 shards; Sazed did it with Preservation and Ruin. It's not entirely implausible. Also, Dalinar's interpretation of Honor is interesting I think as at some point in his life he has always been trying to unify something or someone. I.e. Alethkar for Gavilar, than the Vengeance Pact, his family, although that was more him trying to become a better family man, unifying himself? My point is with Dalinar being a Bondsmith and his past, perhaps he views Unity as Honor. Is the Honor in Unity and vice versa? I can definitely see Dalinar taking Honor's shard but not until if/when Navani passes or she somehow is able to join him. Which I have absolutely no idea how that would happen unless Cultivation somehow get splintered and Navani somehow gets the shard back and joins Dalinar. This seems very unlikely, but the romantic in me would love that. Also, super glad it was Dalinar and not Gavilar who became a Bondsmith. For all his faults, I can't imagine Dalinar ever condoning bringing about the apocalypse to unite people. That's just straight up stupid! Dalinar is more compelling of a character to me as well. I could be biased. ;) Excellent podcast again guys, you are the only one I consistently listen too. #DadShard!

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On 6/28/2018 at 6:58 PM, Argent said:

Image result for unity

Of course! Dalinar is the Shard of gaming engines! also, #DadShard

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I am really liking the idea of Unity being one of Honor's Purposes, and Dalinar having to internalize all of them to Ascend, perhaps so he can form the necessary Connection. I am also wondering whether it is one of the ten names of the Almighty, with the names matching those Purposes. 

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whattheHoid

Posted

@ArgentI wonder if the ten names of the Almighty and Honor's purposes are related to the ideals of the ten orders of Knights Radiant. I would imagine maybe Tanavast would've planned ahead his demise, so perhaps he had clues for this hidden or not in the number 10, which seems to be everywhere on Roshar. Important things seem to be associated with 10, much like 16 on Scadrial? 

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For Unity, I think there are two things happening. Dalinar's statement of "I am Unity" is him desribing himself as a force of unity, not as a shard or splinter. I don't think Dalinar is aware enough of shards to make the statement anything else. 

But Odium's statement about Dalinar Ascending means something else was going on. I like the idea of Dalinar ascending to a splinter of Honor, or partly ascending to the position of most connected to all of Honor, but not enough to claim the position of Vessel.

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1 hour ago, whattheHoid said:

@ArgentI wonder if the ten names of the Almighty and Honor's purposes are related to the ideals of the ten orders of Knights Radiant. I would imagine maybe Tanavast would've planned ahead his demise, so perhaps he had clues for this hidden or not in the number 10, which seems to be everywhere on Roshar. Important things seem to be associated with 10, much like 16 on Scadrial? 

Something like this would feel too Mistborn-y, I think. There might be a relationship there, but I think it's more roundabout than that. Since the Radiant Orders were set up after the Heralds, the attributes each Order was expected to exemplify (originally by the associated spren, and later - by people) would match with the Heralds' Divine Attributes. If the Heralds' plea for help to Honor and Cultivation was instrumental in the setting up of Surgebinding as an Invested Art, then it could make sense that the attributes intrinsic to this Art would be ones that fall in line with who the Heralds were. 

So, less of a secret message, and more of just how things are.

19 minutes ago, Wandering Investor said:

For Unity, I think there are two things happening. Dalinar's statement of "I am Unity" is him desribing himself as a force of unity, not as a shard or splinter. I don't think Dalinar is aware enough of shards to make the statement anything else. 

Yeah but that's an easy explanation, and we don't do those 'round these parts :D

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What if Honor's Perpendicularity follows the most honorable person or the person making the most honorable of choices? Dalinar choosing to reject Odium and shoulder his own past decisions brought the Perpendicularity to him, and because he is the Bondsmith of the Stormfather he was able to access it in ways others couldn't.

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Unity is a version of Honor. Tanavast is dead but his power and what was left of his Cognitive self merged with the Storm Father. Dalinar bonded with the Storm Father. After his connections and intent fully aligned with the intent of Honor he was able to ascend in a similar way to that of the Lord Ruler ascending at the Well of Ascension. The power is still not fully there but It allows Dalinar to use some of the Investiture of Honor.

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I was just doing a reread and this line from Navani defending Dalinar stuck out.

Quote

“My husband wants unity,” Navani said firmly. “Not dominion.”

-OB Page 973

it doesn’t mean much in-world. Navani does not know about Dominion, but Brandon does.

it is interesting that he chose to reference unity and have a character directly compare it to dominion, a known Shard.

I’m not concluding anything, but I found it noteworthy.

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hoiditthroughthegrapevine

Posted (edited)

I'm writing this from the spiritual realm, where time doesn't exist, so this isn't really a super delayed response...

@Wind Runner, and @Steeldancer I think that Honor's perpendicularity is in the Highstorm, and I think the way to explain it's unpredictable location is that the north/south component of it's location is variable. The east/west location of perpendicularity will essentially be fixed as being in the functional part of the highstorm (i.e. the portion capable of replenishing stormlight) which would be somewhere close to, but east of the stormwall. The highstorm itself is a bound phenomena, it has a western verge (the stormwall), a z bounds (the ceiling which is lower than Urithiru) and an eastern trailing edge (the riddens). But it also affects all of the Rosharan subcontinent and there isn't any mention of a diminished effect of the highstorm anywhere on Roshar with the exception of Shinovar, but that seems like there has been some shardic invtervention there to dampen it's effect. Also, from the Wandersail tale, it seems like the effects of the Highstorm also extend to the ocean, so if Honor's perpendicularity was in fact in the highstorm with a variable N/S coordinate, it would make a lot of sense why it's hard to find and unpredictable.

 

Also about Odium's perpendicularity, I have a feeling it's in the Everstorm as well. @KChan's point about Odium only talking to Venli during the Everstorm, the fact that Taravangian also talked to Odium during the Everstorm, the fact that the cognitive shadows of old singers that were heretofore trapped on Braise take over singer bodies during the highstorm, and most telling of all, the fact that the Everstorm stopped at Thaylen City where Odium was at his most manifest suggest to me that this is possibly more than just a Super storm filled with Odious Investiture. Also, with the Pool on Patji being associated with Autonomy, do we know if Shards can have more than one Perpendicularity or not? We know that travel to Taldain is not advisable (because of the scrutiy of Autonomy), but if it's not advisable it would imply that it's still possible. So this seems to imply that a shard can have more than one Perpendicularity. All of this is to preface the fact that I think that Odium has one on Braise and that the Everstorm is a mobile perpendicularity, like the Highstorm (facilitating the perpetual replenishment of the Fuzed, and allowing Odium to touch Roshar more directly).

 

On Dalinar's small caps Ascension, the quote that you guys brought up about how Dalinar created Unity with the remnants of Honor, the Will of the Stormfather and Dalinar's soul I think goes a long way towards explaining what happened with this mini-ascension. The reason his mind wasn't expanded was that the Stormfather is the will, the remnant cognitive piece of pre-existing Honor that is still filtering the raw shardic power of Honor. But some of this power is being directed by dalinar's soul, explaining his ability to supercharge radiants (like he did when Kal went looking for his Gavinor and his the missing bridge 4 squires).

Possibly, his ability to create the perpendicularity (or rather more specificially to combine all three realms), is similar to when he forced the stormfather to turn into an Oathgate key in Vedinar, but for him to do something similar in the future he would have to overpower the stormfather's will to achieve this very special effect.

 

That was an interesting point about the Death Rattle, and the visions sent from Honor appearing to people other than Gavilar and Dalinar. I think the simplest explanation for this one is that the Stormfather sent these visions to anyone who's last name was Kholin. The potter that died most likely was Dalinar's second cousin or something. And maybe, this is another of the hidden imperatives of the Unite them phrase, to gather all of the Knight's Radiants into the Kholin family (either through employment, like Kal, or through Marriage like Shallan).

 

Edited by hoiditthroughthegrapevine
typos

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@hoiditthroughthegrapevine, Interesting points! I sort of assumed that the Everstorm was Odium's perpendicularity and that Highstorms was Honor's perpendicularity. I assume that there can be more than one perpendicularity for each Shard. Unless there is a cosmere/shards law saying each shard is granted only 1 perpendicularity. As far as Dalinar's visions, could Honor see the future and tell that a Kholin would be a Bondsmith? Or perhaps Honor told the Stormfather the region where you could find a potential Bondsmith. It seems rather specific to know that a Kholin would be a Bondsmith. Why didn't Adolin for example, receive the visions? Interesting points Hoid! Next time you are in contact with Frost tell him I say howdy!!

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3 minutes ago, whattheHoid said:

I sort of assumed that the Everstorm was Odium's perpendicularity and that Highstorms was Honor's perpendicularity. I assume that there can be more than one perpendicularity for each Shard. Unless there is a cosmere/shards law saying each shard is granted only 1 perpendicularity

Yeah, I assumed that too until I heard this shardcast. I still think it's the case that the 2 big storms are moving perpendicularities, and I think it's interesting that Odium has more active control over the everstorm, possibly because it isn't part of the fundamental ecology of Roshar.

5 minutes ago, whattheHoid said:

Or perhaps Honor told the Stormfather the region where you could find a potential Bondsmith. It seems rather specific to know that a Kholin would be a Bondsmith. Why didn't Adolin for example, receive the visions?

This was totally just a joke, in reference to how all of the Kholins and everyone around them are Knights Radiant. I think that the Stormfather was just broadcasting visions, kind of like an AM radio station, and only people with broken spirit webs that were possibly compatible with becoming the SF's bondsmith were tuning into Stormfather Coast to Coast.

Dalinar didn't get the visions until after he got the cryptic message from Dalinar about the most important words a man can say, and I am pretty sure it was only after he started reading the Way of Kings and had his mind pruned by Cultivation that he started getting them. He had to tune the dial to the right station with the wisdom of Nohadon and with a little help from the big C.

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