Pagerunner he/him Posted November 4, 2021 Posted November 4, 2021 Peter's been saying some very interesting things on Reddit about atium: Quote Xais56: Brandon has said that everyone ought to be able to burn Atium, like they can all burn Lerasium, and the fact that they can't was an oversight on his part that he would've done different in hindsight. Maybe now he's had an in-universe reason to re-write the laws of allomancy it's back to his intended concept; Mistborn burn all 16 base metals, mistings burn one base metal, non-allomancers can only burn godmetal. Peter: My explanation for this is that Preservation somehow caused all naturally occurring atium to form as an alloy of atium and electrum. The atium Mistings were actually electrum Mistings. Xais56: It's a very tidy solution, but it creates the maddening question of what does pure atium do? Peter: That answer has already been revealed canonically. RAFO. There's a lot to unpack here. I don't recall Brandon saying that everyone ought to be able to burn atium. I know it's been RAFO'd, and I could find Brandon saying "not just anybody could use it." On the topic of hindsight, I've seen him talk about atium breaking rules, and I know fans have discussed the rules it breaks (including who can use it, and also why it can be affected by steelpushes), but I can't find Brandon himself commenting on it. Did I miss something? Or was the questioner mistaken? Peter's answer seems to assume the questioner is correct. Now, I'll be honest, I've proposed that framework over the years (among many others), especially since "refined atium" was revealed on the hemalurgy table. But does this confirm it's an actual, canon fact? Or is this an instance of Peter as a fan, speculating off the cuff, assuming that Brandon said what people actually say he said? (For what it's worth, my proposal was that pure atium could do what any of its alloys could do, but everybody only knew the one effect, so that's what kept happening; actual atium Mistings, but they only had the Intent to use atium to accomplish the atium-electrum effect.) Bonus eyebrow raise: Preservation controlling the manifestation of Ruin's godmetal at Ruin's shardpool? "That answer has already been revealed canonically. RAFO." So... there are a couple ways I could take this. The allomancy poster says "pure atium grants the Allomancer an expansive vision of the future and enhances the mind's ability to accept, process, and hold information. In alloy form, it produces various mental and temporal effects." This could be read in two ways: The effects we see in the books do, technically, satisfy the letter of the description. In this case, it would mean that pure atium does what we see this "impure" atium do, allomantically. It's possible that the "expansive vision" and "mental enhancements" from pure atium are bigger in scale and degree than what we saw from atium burners in the book. We've been reading it like 3.1.1 the whole time, but that's been a misinterpretation. The hemalurgy table says atium "Steals any power. Must be refined." So, technically, we do know what pure atium does. But we only know what it does hemalurgically, not allomantically or feruchemically, which does technically answer the questioner's followup of "what does pure atium do." Peter says "RAFO" instead of explaining it. Is it possible that this gets touched on in The Lost Metal? But that wouldn't be "revealed canonically" yet, in my mind, since the book's not published yet. He may have just been saying RAFO since the topic's OP (who was not the questioner in the comments) is partway through reading Bands of Mourning... but we don't learn anything new about atium after that or in Secret History (the Hemalurgy table is in the Hero of Ages leatherbound), so I'm not sure what he'd be avoiding. All in all, a very confusing thread for me to stumble upon. Have I missed any WoBs? Am I forgetting any passages from the books? Can anyone help me understand this exchange? This could either be Peter firing off the cuff as a fan, or a pretty substantial confirmation of a lot of Mistborn fundamentals that have been argued about for years, so I'm actually not sure if this should be going up on Arcanum or not. 2
NameIess Posted November 4, 2021 Posted November 4, 2021 30 minutes ago, Pagerunner said: I don't recall Brandon saying that everyone ought to be able to burn atium. I know it's been RAFO'd, and I could find Brandon saying "not just anybody could use it." On the topic of hindsight, I've seen him talk about atium breaking rules, and I know fans have discussed the rules it breaks (including who can use it, and also why it can be affected by steelpushes), but I can't find Brandon himself commenting on it. Did I miss something? Or was the questioner mistaken? Here's the WoB talking about it: (Spoiled for length) Spoiler Brandon Sanderson So, one thing I think I did wrong in the books was not having more allomancer guards and soldiers who were women. I don't think our same gender norms would be the case on Scadrial. One of the [screenplay] revisions is this: Shan is no longer Elend's fiance, but his sister. Their father has left on business to the outer domninances, and so Shan is making a play to secure the heirship, trying to prove she is more bold and strong than her brother. This is what gives the team an opening, and why they're striking now with the heist, as in this version, House Venture maintains the city policing and has access to the atium stash. The plan is to put a few Allomancers (including Ham) into the Venture house guard, and exploit Shan's desire to prove herself by creating chaos in the city that she'll think she needs to put down with decisive action. That will involve her pulling out the atium stash, which will in turn let the team know where to go to rob them. It streamlines the book's story in some elegant ways to do this. Shan becomes the primary "mark" of the book, in many ways. It also lets me explain a little more succinctly what various members of the crew are doing in the background while we focus on Vin, who is to get close to Shan as a confidant--which is why she's sent to the parties. And why Shan being a brat to her isn't just annoying, it means a major part of the plan isn't yet in place. It explains way better, in my opinion, why Shan would act against Elend. It's all clicking into place as I move pieces around. That said, I understand those who want a Television show. I could see going that way, perhaps. Trouble is, nobody in streaming needs a big fantasy property. Anywhere I go right now, I'd be in a distant second or third place to Tolkien, WoT, Witcher, or Kingkiller. The offers I've gotten have been for a fraction of the budget of those shows--since everyone has already spent big money on their big fantasy show, and isn't really interested in another. I'm confident feature is the place I want Mistborn; but even if I weren't, I'm not thrilled by the idea of being lost on Netflix as their "other" fantasy show. Rapharasium I don't know if I'm being negative, but these changes really worry and disappoint me. I really like Era 1 as it is, and all this change in the dynamics of society and the plot as too drastic. Brandon Sanderson This isn't negative; I understand this response, and think it's valid. At the same time, I'm of the personal philosophy that a film should generally be a different beast than a book--a book can lean into the little intricacies of a story, while a film should be a bold but unified statement. Nothing will happen to the books; those will remain the same. But if I want this film to work as a film, I believe I need to be willing to re-imagine parts of the story. Mycroft_canner With Elend having a sister does that mean you don’t need the Zane plot anymore? Brandon Sanderson That's from the second book--so it would be in the television show, and we'd likely still do it. DataLoreHD prove she is more bold and strong than her brother Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody. Brandon Sanderson It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making. Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them. meh84f The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected? Brandon Sanderson So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off. So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.) Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form. The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.) Phantine Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway. Brandon Sanderson It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity. General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020) 3
Quantus he/him Posted November 4, 2021 Posted November 4, 2021 Off the top of my head: Lerasium Connects you to the Shard of a Godmental that is alloyed with it, and as a side effect it's pure form will Connect you to Preservation when provided no target via an alloy. Other known Godmetal: SA Spoiler Spoiler Raysium will forcibly shunt Investiture from one end to another of the physical sample. If what we thought was pure Atium is actually an alloy with Electrum, then I think it Inverts the behavior of the metal it is alloyed with, so with Electrum it made the Internal/Self effect become External. Alloyed with Gold it would effect others, with the External Temporals it would make them Self effect only (Super OP, that). That starts to make thematic sense with Feruchemy too. If Lerasium Connects you and Atium Inverts Effects, the perfect alloy of the two Connects you to the Metallic Arts art while granting a more persistent Inversion ability, tuned to each of the Metals. 1
+Harrycrapper Posted November 4, 2021 Posted November 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Pagerunner said: I don't recall Brandon saying that everyone ought to be able to burn atium. I know it's been RAFO'd, and I could find Brandon saying "not just anybody could use it." On the topic of hindsight, I've seen him talk about atium breaking rules, and I know fans have discussed the rules it breaks (including who can use it, and also why it can be affected by steelpushes), but I can't find Brandon himself commenting on it. Did I miss something? Or was the questioner mistaken? Brandon was writing a screenplay for Mistborn and in the screenplay he made adjustments to the story. One notable thing I remember was Shan Elariel being Ellend's sister instead of an Elariel. The other one was that he wanted to make it so anyone could use Atium because it made more sense, I think someone linked the WoB up there that explains some of it. 1 hour ago, Pagerunner said: Peter's answer seems to assume the questioner is correct. Now, I'll be honest, I've proposed that framework over the years (among many others), especially since "refined atium" was revealed on the hemalurgy table. But does this confirm it's an actual, canon fact? Or is this an instance of Peter as a fan, speculating off the cuff, assuming that Brandon said what people actually say he said? (For what it's worth, my proposal was that pure atium could do what any of its alloys could do, but everybody only knew the one effect, so that's what kept happening; actual atium Mistings, but they only had the Intent to use atium to accomplish the atium-electrum effect.) I theorized along these same lines a while back. I've always thought that the Atium from Era 1 was an alloy and not the pure form based on how Malatium works. Gold lets you see your past self, Malatium lets you see someone else's. Electrum lets you see your immediate future, Atium lets you see other people's or objects' future. It just seems odd to me that Atium works in a reverse manner to electrum much like other metal and alloy pairs work, much like gold and Malatium work. 1 hour ago, Pagerunner said: "That answer has already been revealed canonically. RAFO." So... there are a couple ways I could take this. The allomancy poster says "pure atium grants the Allomancer an expansive vision of the future and enhances the mind's ability to accept, process, and hold information. In alloy form, it produces various mental and temporal effects." This could be read in two ways: The effects we see in the books do, technically, satisfy the letter of the description. In this case, it would mean that pure atium does what we see this "impure" atium do, allomantically. It's possible that the "expansive vision" and "mental enhancements" from pure atium are bigger in scale and degree than what we saw from atium burners in the book. We've been reading it like 3.1.1 the whole time, but that's been a misinterpretation. The hemalurgy table says atium "Steals any power. Must be refined." So, technically, we do know what pure atium does. But we only know what it does hemalurgically, not allomantically or feruchemically, which does technically answer the questioner's followup of "what does pure atium do." Peter says "RAFO" instead of explaining it. Is it possible that this gets touched on in The Lost Metal? But that wouldn't be "revealed canonically" yet, in my mind, since the book's not published yet. He may have just been saying RAFO since the topic's OP (who was not the questioner in the comments) is partway through reading Bands of Mourning... but we don't learn anything new about atium after that or in Secret History (the Hemalurgy table is in the Hero of Ages leatherbound), so I'm not sure what he'd be avoiding. If Peter isn't mistaken here, my thought is that the ancient Terris prophecies were made using Atium. The Terris prophecies are the only instance on Scadrial that we know of where someone who is not a Shard saw further than a few seconds in the future besides Elend at the end of HoA. I don't believe Feruchemy has any properties that would allow someone to do that. They didn't have strong enough Allomancy back then to do what Elend did with duralumin + Atium. But, maybe they were able to use some sort of pure form of Atium to connect to the Spiritual Realm like Elend did and see the future where Sazed saves humanity or were able to just straight up see the future through some other utilization of Atium. Another possibility is that Ruin's Perpendicularity is the pure Atium and they were able to use that much like Rashek and Vin used Preservation's. Except, Ruin's power could be used to see into the future.
Tglassy Posted November 5, 2021 Posted November 5, 2021 I had this theory about Atium a while back, where it inverted the metal it was alloyed with. Annoying that someone shot it down back then, quoting the "Atium alloys do various temporal things" at me. I didn't know what Electrum would do, because I was assuming that Atium was it's own thing that just happened to do the opposite of Electrum, but this makes sense. My theory: Gold shows you your past, Gold/Atium shows you others' pasts Electrum: Shows you your future, Electrum/Atium shows you others' futures Iron: Pulls metals to you, Iron/Atium allows you to pull metals to each other Steel: Push metals from you, Steel/Atium Pushes metals from each other. Note: The way I see that working is being able to see the same metal lines as burning iron and steel, only instead of having them be connected to you, they're connected to each other. Tin: Enhance your own senses; Tin/Atium: Enhance others' Senses Pewter: Enhance your own physical attributes: Pewter/Atium: Enhance other's Physical Attributes Note: Perhaps this would work like a clowd, where people around you are enhanced, or like Nicrobursts, where you have to touch them. Brass/Zinc: Riot/Sooth the emotions of others. Not sure what the Atium version of this would do. If it simply inverses, then perhaps they riot/sooth your own emotions? That would be strange, but in theme. Copper: Hides you from Bronze; Copper/Atium: Not sure here, either, unless it lets you stick Copper Clouds on others, so you don't have to be there. Bronze: Sense allomancy; Bronze/Atium: Perhaps this would allow others around you to hear Allomancy, either by proximity, or by touching them. Bendalloy/Cadmium: Allow you to speed up/slow down time in a bubble around you; Add Atium, and the only thing I can think of is that it would let you make bubbles around other people, excluding yourself. Duralamin/Nicrosil: These are already opposites, the one enhancing yourself, the other enhancing others. Same with Aluminum/Chromium: negating metals. So I'm not sure what an Atium Alloy would do with these. Unless...hmm...what if adding Atium to Chromium allowed you to STEEL the metals in others, or to Aluminum to give them some of yours? Or something. Just a thought. 1
Frustration Posted November 5, 2021 Posted November 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, Tglassy said: I had this theory about Atium a while back, where it inverted the metal it was alloyed with. Annoying that someone shot it down back then, quoting the "Atium alloys do various temporal things" at me. I didn't know what Electrum would do, because I was assuming that Atium was it's own thing that just happened to do the opposite of Electrum, but this makes sense. My theory: Gold shows you your past, Gold/Atium shows you others' pasts Electrum: Shows you your future, Electrum/Atium shows you others' futures Iron: Pulls metals to you, Iron/Atium allows you to pull metals to each other Steel: Push metals from you, Steel/Atium Pushes metals from each other. Note: The way I see that working is being able to see the same metal lines as burning iron and steel, only instead of having them be connected to you, they're connected to each other. Tin: Enhance your own senses; Tin/Atium: Enhance others' Senses Pewter: Enhance your own physical attributes: Pewter/Atium: Enhance other's Physical Attributes Note: Perhaps this would work like a clowd, where people around you are enhanced, or like Nicrobursts, where you have to touch them. Brass/Zinc: Riot/Sooth the emotions of others. Not sure what the Atium version of this would do. If it simply inverses, then perhaps they riot/sooth your own emotions? That would be strange, but in theme. Copper: Hides you from Bronze; Copper/Atium: Not sure here, either, unless it lets you stick Copper Clouds on others, so you don't have to be there. Bronze: Sense allomancy; Bronze/Atium: Perhaps this would allow others around you to hear Allomancy, either by proximity, or by touching them. Bendalloy/Cadmium: Allow you to speed up/slow down time in a bubble around you; Add Atium, and the only thing I can think of is that it would let you make bubbles around other people, excluding yourself. Duralamin/Nicrosil: These are already opposites, the one enhancing yourself, the other enhancing others. Same with Aluminum/Chromium: negating metals. So I'm not sure what an Atium Alloy would do with these. Unless...hmm...what if adding Atium to Chromium allowed you to STEEL the metals in others, or to Aluminum to give them some of yours? Or something. Just a thought. All the alloys of Atium have temporal/mental effects.
Pagerunner he/him Posted November 5, 2021 Author Posted November 5, 2021 On 11/4/2021 at 0:26 PM, Nameless said: Here's the WoB talking about it: (Spoiled for length) Reveal hidden contents Brandon Sanderson So, one thing I think I did wrong in the books was not having more allomancer guards and soldiers who were women. I don't think our same gender norms would be the case on Scadrial. One of the [screenplay] revisions is this: Shan is no longer Elend's fiance, but his sister. Their father has left on business to the outer domninances, and so Shan is making a play to secure the heirship, trying to prove she is more bold and strong than her brother. This is what gives the team an opening, and why they're striking now with the heist, as in this version, House Venture maintains the city policing and has access to the atium stash. The plan is to put a few Allomancers (including Ham) into the Venture house guard, and exploit Shan's desire to prove herself by creating chaos in the city that she'll think she needs to put down with decisive action. That will involve her pulling out the atium stash, which will in turn let the team know where to go to rob them. It streamlines the book's story in some elegant ways to do this. Shan becomes the primary "mark" of the book, in many ways. It also lets me explain a little more succinctly what various members of the crew are doing in the background while we focus on Vin, who is to get close to Shan as a confidant--which is why she's sent to the parties. And why Shan being a brat to her isn't just annoying, it means a major part of the plan isn't yet in place. It explains way better, in my opinion, why Shan would act against Elend. It's all clicking into place as I move pieces around. That said, I understand those who want a Television show. I could see going that way, perhaps. Trouble is, nobody in streaming needs a big fantasy property. Anywhere I go right now, I'd be in a distant second or third place to Tolkien, WoT, Witcher, or Kingkiller. The offers I've gotten have been for a fraction of the budget of those shows--since everyone has already spent big money on their big fantasy show, and isn't really interested in another. I'm confident feature is the place I want Mistborn; but even if I weren't, I'm not thrilled by the idea of being lost on Netflix as their "other" fantasy show. Rapharasium I don't know if I'm being negative, but these changes really worry and disappoint me. I really like Era 1 as it is, and all this change in the dynamics of society and the plot as too drastic. Brandon Sanderson This isn't negative; I understand this response, and think it's valid. At the same time, I'm of the personal philosophy that a film should generally be a different beast than a book--a book can lean into the little intricacies of a story, while a film should be a bold but unified statement. Nothing will happen to the books; those will remain the same. But if I want this film to work as a film, I believe I need to be willing to re-imagine parts of the story. Mycroft_canner With Elend having a sister does that mean you don’t need the Zane plot anymore? Brandon Sanderson That's from the second book--so it would be in the television show, and we'd likely still do it. DataLoreHD prove she is more bold and strong than her brother Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody. Brandon Sanderson It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making. Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them. meh84f The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected? Brandon Sanderson So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off. So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.) Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form. The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.) Phantine Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway. Brandon Sanderson It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity. General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020) Thanks for the quote. It makes things a little clearer; atium being usable by any allomancer would be a part of the alternate movie universe, not the canon book universe. But then why is Peter trying to reconcile the events of the book and this hypothetical divergence in the movie? I'm leaning more towards an off-the-cuff headcanon response with no deeper meaning for his first comment. How Peter would retcon atium being burnable by all allomancers without directly contradicting the books. But it still doesn't illuminate, in my mind, what Peter was saying about the canonical effect of pure atium. All this speculation is well and good and fun to read, but what exactly has been "revealed canonically"? Any kind of atium inversion, atium alloy effects, that's all just theorization. Back in my original post, I shared the canonical reveals surround pure atium (the allomancy and hemalurgy tables). The WoB that directly contradicts atium being usable by anyone was from February 2016, a few days before Secret History came out, and the only canonical information we've received since then about pure atium's effects was the hemalurgy table (nothing allomantic). So, if Brandon changed his mind between that WoB and the 2018 hemalurgy table, that would be the only source of new, canonical info on pure atium's effects. In which case, since the questioner didn't specify pure atium's allomantic effect, Peter technically did answer his question. (But then, in the 2020 TV WoB, Brandon says it'd be a change he "wished he'd made," implying that he hasn't made it in current continuity, so what would the pure atium be on the hemalurgy table? It just keeps sending me in circles...) And, I guess, it's all social media. He's not necessarily taking his time to craft a carefully worded answer for some of these things, so parsing his comments like this may lead to stuff he didn't intend. I was already gonna be watching for any pure atium references in The Lost Metal, so this gives me a little bit more expectation that they're coming. 2
Quantus he/him Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) Reviving the topic with new info: We have had it confirmed in the Spoiler Stream that what was known in era1 Scadrial Atium is in fact a naturally occurring Atium/Electrum alloy, This leads to the question of what Aitum itself actually does as a Godmetal, and how it might function. Raysium shunts Investiture. Lerasium Overwrites Spiritwebs, and can Connect you to another Shard if alloyed to another Godmetal. Harmonium emits a temporary Spiritweb (or at least the investiture effects of one). Atium when Alloyed with a mundane metal appears to Invert its allomantic effect, as with both Electrum alloy (Era 1 Atium) and Gold alloy (Malatium) it takes a Self-Targeted Internal Effect and makes it affect something External. I think Atium Inverts Investiture effects, at least along the Internal/External axis and possibly across the Pushing/Pulling axis with the correct Intent. Entirely uncontrolled that sounds like a bad (and gross) thing if a person were to Burn it and target let it default target their own Spiritweb (or Spark of Life Investiture) without some specific effect in mind; in its most extreme and uncontrolled, it would turn their spiritweb "inside out" and Ruin them that way.. But given how impactful Intent is on Hemalurgy, I suspect it will be the Guiding mechanism for Atium as well. Im not really sure how you might go about making it interact with other magic systems, but Inverting the effects of Surges or Heighenings does sounds intriguing. Edited January 3, 2022 by Quantus 1
Cocoa he/him Posted January 3, 2022 Posted January 3, 2022 The way I figure, there are three probable allomantic effects of burning pure atium. Before I get into this, I should note that most of these rely on the idea that Ruin and Preservation are polar opposites in terms of Intent. High-level perception of the spiritual realm, allowing for foresight and possibly enhanced hindsight. As Harrycrapper noted above, that could potentially explain how the Terris originally got the Prophecies, since Preservation has a difficult time changing things and speaking to people. This option works best with the (now possibly outdated) WoB that atium alloys have temporal effects, but it does strike me as somewhat strange when thinking about Shardic Intent, since Ruin doesn't seem all that great at seeing the future (compared to Preservation at least). Burning atium kills you outright, either as a result of corrupting your spiritweb or just destroying it. This outcome meshes best with the idea that atium inverts the metals it alloys with in some way. Burning atium destroys your Connections to any invested arts, kind of like a super-aluminum burn. This idea follows from four things we already know: Ruin is Presevation's opposite, atium works very efficiently with hemalurgy, lerasium works very inefficiently with hemalurgy, and lerasium invests someone and creates allomantic Connections when burned. So with that in mind, atium behaving like lerasium's direct opposite and sabotaging allomancy when burned feels thematically appropriate. As for feruchemical properties, I haven't got the foggiest idea. So far out of atium, lerasium, "hathsinium," malatium, trellium, raysium, tanavastium, and the honor/cultivation alloys of sprenblades, we only know the feruchemical properties of hathsinium, so not terribly much to go on there.
Naive_Quit Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 On 1/4/2022 at 5:59 AM, Cocoa said: The way I figure, there are three probable allomantic effects of burning pure atium. Before I get into this, I should note that most of these rely on the idea that Ruin and Preservation are polar opposites in terms of Intent. High-level perception of the spiritual realm, allowing for foresight and possibly enhanced hindsight. As Harrycrapper noted above, that could potentially explain how the Terris originally got the Prophecies, since Preservation has a difficult time changing things and speaking to people. This option works best with the (now possibly outdated) WoB that atium alloys have temporal effects, but it does strike me as somewhat strange when thinking about Shardic Intent, since Ruin doesn't seem all that great at seeing the future (compared to Preservation at least). An allomancer burning god metal should still be using allomancy, which is power connected to Preservation. Perhaps Ruin's essence is used only as fuel, although it might show mostly future tragedies since it is Ruin. Using the essence of Ruin would allow the allomancer to tap into Preservation's ability to see the future.
alder24 Posted February 20, 2023 Posted February 20, 2023 54 minutes ago, Naive_Quit said: An allomancer burning god metal should still be using allomancy, which is power connected to Preservation. Perhaps Ruin's essence is used only as fuel, although it might show mostly future tragedies since it is Ruin. Using the essence of Ruin would allow the allomancer to tap into Preservation's ability to see the future. While allomancy is connected to Preservation, his essence is the fuel for most metals, he is providing investiture. With Atium however it uses Atium (Ruin's investiture) as a fuel to see the future. But it doesn't involve tapping into any specific ability of Preservation, you just use a power provided to you to by the metal in a specific way. Powers are not of Shard's - WoBs: Spoiler Brandon Sanderson Atium's Mechanism Atium is, indeed, different from the other metals. When you burn most Allomantic metals, it opens a conduit through which you can draw upon Preservation's power and use it in very specific ways. Atium doesn't do that. Atium is, itself, a fuel. When you burn it, the metal itself provides the power. A subtle distinction, I know, but it has to do with where the power is coming from. Most Allomancy is fueled by Preservation, but atium and malatium are fueled by Ruin. This metal doesn't quite belong on the table where it has been placed. The Hero of Ages Annotations (April 1, 2010) Spoiler Andrew The Great Why can Vin fuel Elend's atium-burning, even though Atium is Ruin's Body and Vin is using Preservation? Or did I misread that and he was just burning atium and had run out of everything else? Brandon Sanderson Yes, as has been pointed out: A powerful peace swelled in Elend. His Allomancy flared bright, though he knew the metals inside of him should have burned away. Only atium remained, and the strange power did not—could not—give him this metal. But it didn’t matter. For a moment, he was embraced by something greater. He looked up, toward the sun. (From the text.) As a note here, the powers granted by all of the metals—even the two divine ones—are not themselves of either Shard. They are simply tools. And so, it's possible that one COULD have found a way to reproduce an ability like atium's while using Preservation's power, but it wouldn't be as natural or as easy as using Preservation to fuel Allomancy. The means of getting powers—Ruin stealing, Preservation gifting—are related to the Shards, but not the powers themselves. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) Spoiler Czanos Preservation can fuel Allomancy, (minus atium.) but can Ruin fuel Hemalurgy? (Or atium?) And could Sazed fuel all three Metallic Arts? Brandon Sanderson Both gods could, if they wanted, fuel all of the Metallic Arts. Preservation is stronger at fueling Allomancy, Ruin stronger at fueling Allomancy or Feruchemy when it has been given via a spike. Both are balanced when it comes to Feruchemy. But this rarely comes up in the books, as it required expending power in a way that the gods were hesitant to do. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) Spoiler Kaimipono Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies? Brandon Sanderson The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms. Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.) So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) 1
IlstrawberrySeed Posted February 25, 2023 Posted February 25, 2023 When Elend burns the lerasium, Brandon says (in the annotations) there are more than three magic systems in the books. I don't believe shardmetals, when burnt, are used allomantically. I believe they are a sperate magic system that interacts with it, the same way that F/H charged metals have unique effects. I am not entirely convinced that pure Shardmetals can be used fuerochemically.
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