Axindweth is a member of the Set

[+Invocation]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Didn't they kidnap people who had strong bloodlines but weren't actually Allomancers (like Steris)? Or were most of them actual Allomancers and they just messed up with her? I can't remember.

I think Wax said none of them openly had Allomantic abilities, but that didn't mean much since there was no small amount of people that would just keep their abilities secret. 
Personally, I think it's both. If they found any Allomancers among the kidnapped ladies, instant spikes available, but if they play the long game, they can breed a renewable source of spiked abilities.

[StanLemon]

1 hour ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

Didn't they kidnap people who had strong bloodlines but weren't actually Allomancers (like Steris)? Or were most of them actual Allomancers and they just messed up with her? I can't remember.

We actually don't know. All we know is that they kidnapped women with direct lines of descent from Spook. As Steris was their first target for kidnapping at the party it implies they either didn't care about Allomantic ability and just wanted people with strong bloodlines (giving credence to the breeding theory) or that they were kidnapping them to see if they did have Allomantic power for them to Spike.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 23.12.2021 at 9:23 PM, cometaryorbit said:

I am skeptical that there is actually an Allomancer breeding program. Post BoM that seems likely to be Wax's flawed assumption.

An assumption that Telsin shares. Right after they meet again she alludes that she is useless to their uncle's other project (her wording). Now, I suppose you could argue that the Set is deliberately constructing a misleading narrative, but why?

On 23.12.2021 at 9:23 PM, cometaryorbit said:

BoM makes it clear the Set uses Hemalurgic spikes granting Allomantic powers, they had to get the Allomancers for that, and we know they kidnapped Allomancers..

No, it makes clear that they recently have begun using spikes after getting information about it.

And they deliberately kidnapped women in a certain relation to the Lord Mistborn, whether they were known to be Allomancers or not. If you just want spikes, you kidnap people or run your baby factory with women nobody would notice. You do not go out of your way to really make most and the most important noble houses in Elendel angry. That would be enormously stupid. Nor would you instruct your henchmen that you need these. You'd give them a list of women with known allomantic abilities.

No, humans are mammals. The speed at which we can breed is limited by the availability of fertile females. Sorry to put it into these stark biological terms, but those are the facts from biology. Hence if you absolutely need large numbers of allomancers, you take male allomancers, whose cooperation is much easier to arrange and conceal, and women nobody will notice.
If the Set needs women they are not breeding more allomancers, they are breeding better allomancers. And of course they have history books. They want Mistborn.

[cometaryorbit]

 

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

An assumption that Telsin shares. Right after they meet again she alludes that she is useless to their uncle's other project (her wording). Now, I suppose you could argue that the Set is deliberately constructing a misleading narrative, but why?

It would make sense as a layer of misdirection as the existence of Hemalurgy seems rather secret but everyone knows Allomancy is hereditary. So people who know they exist as a criminal organization but don't know about Hemalurgy see a plausible motive for their kidnappings.

Edit: also, Telsin was posing as a prisoner of the Set, not a member. So almost certainly lying.

(The non Allomancers kidnapped don't have to have secret powers, they could be kidnapping extra people to make the cover story plausible.)

I don't think they care about angering noble houses, they expect to rule soon.

And that's actually part of the issue...the Set's plans as we see them in BoM seem too short time scale for Allomancers born post AoL to grow up. They're looking for war in the next few years not 20+ years.

So I really see only two possibilities: it was a misdirection all along, or the Set changed plans/vastly accelerated their timeline between AoL and BoM.

Edited January 5, 2022 by cometaryorbit

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 5.1.2022 at 2:09 AM, cometaryorbit said:

 

It would make sense as a layer of misdirection as the existence of Hemalurgy seems rather secret but everyone knows Allomancy is hereditary. So people who know they exist as a criminal organization but don't know about Hemalurgy see a plausible motive for their kidnappings.

Nobody would have cared if they had just taken allomantic miscreant, criminals or provincials. There is no point in creating a vague misdirection, if you weren't noticed in the first place.

On 5.1.2022 at 2:09 AM, cometaryorbit said:

Edit: also, Telsin was posing as a prisoner of the Set, not a member. So almost certainly lying.

You can lie only if you have an idea about what you ought to lie.

On 5.1.2022 at 2:09 AM, cometaryorbit said:

(The non Allomancers kidnapped don't have to have secret powers, they could be kidnapping extra people to make the cover story plausible.)

The specific list precludes that. You'd give your people a list of known allomancers.

On 5.1.2022 at 2:09 AM, cometaryorbit said:

And that's actually part of the issue...the Set's plans as we see them in BoM seem too short time scale for Allomancers born post AoL to grow up. They're looking for war in the next few years not 20+ years.

You need to keep your power after you've gotten it.

Secondly, we know for sure that their plans are changing. In fact radically and genocidally so.

 

[cometaryorbit]

17 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

You can lie only if you have an idea about what you ought to lie.

Well, sure, but Telsin could just be playing on Wax's expectations. It could be a previously established misdirection, but doesn't have to be.

 

17 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Nobody would have cared if they had just taken allomantic miscreant, criminals or provincials. There is no point in creating a vague misdirection, if you weren't noticed in the first place.

Not necessarily (I am not sure that there are enough *low profile* allomantic criminals & miscreants), and also, a cover story might be needed anyway for criminals they work with (like the Vanishers) who aren't "in" enough to know about Hemalurgy.

17 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

 

Secondly, we know for sure that their plans are changing. In fact radically and genocidally so.

At the very end of BoM, sure. But that's a surprise to Suit, so the whole plan to build up to a war between the outer cities and Elendel can't be reliant on that change. There would have to have been a previous change in between books.

Which is possible, admittedly.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Well, sure, but Telsin could just be playing on Wax's expectations. It could be a previously established misdirection, but doesn't have to be.

They'd have to be sure he'd get it. A long shot.

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

Not necessarily (I am not sure that there are enough *low profile* allomantic criminals & miscreants),

The Vanishers had two, Miles included.

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

and also, a cover story might be needed anyway for criminals they work with (like the Vanishers) who aren't "in" enough to know about Hemalurgy.

No. You just tell them that allomantic hostages are more valluable. In fact that's what they'll assume.

11 hours ago, cometaryorbit said:

At the very end of BoM, sure. But that's a surprise to Suit, so the whole plan to build up to a war between the outer cities and Elendel can't be reliant on that change. There would have to have been a previous change in between books.

Which is possible, admittedly.

So you do not think that the Set got hemalurgic knowledge out of obtaining a copy of Spook's book?

[EmulatonStromenkiin he/him]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:58 PM, AquaRegia said:

By Adonalsium, I think you are on to something here.  We know Cryptics in general, and Pattern in particular, see the world in terms of mathematics.

The members that control the Set are known as the "Series."  Known members include "Sequence", "Suit" and "Array".

Coincidence?  I think not.  I'm on board.  Not sure how I feel about what I've always thought of as an evil organization being founded by characters I love... but I cannot deny the logic here, and honestly, I have the same misgivings about the Ghostbloods.

Well done, @ChickenChaser.  Have an upvote and my hearty congratulations for your fine insight.

possibly corrupted cryptics, as corrupted spren often have a red cast