Long Game 75: Alethi Politics

[Quivil]

28 minutes ago, Araris Valerian said:

Is this still the case when the game rules ensure that someone is guaranteed to be grinched? I think if the rules permit, a case can be made for doing normal D1 voting and then everyone cancelling at the last second so nobody actually dies. The village could still learn something from that. But surely the voting process itself forces the elims to engage with the game when they could otherwise hide.

I don’t think you’re elim for having this opinion, but then how, if we somehow don’t grinch anyone D1, is the D2 vote any different? We certainly can’t solve this game mechanically, and elim kills don’t give much info.

My personal opinion is that if someone must die anyways, it’s almost a bit cowardly to be unwilling to get your hands dirty. We’re playing a game about murder here. Might as well get involved from the get go. And folks ‘round here are guilty until proven innocent.

Ok. I'll vote Araris.

[+Whysper she/her]

On 3/25/2021 at 11:45 PM, Dannex said:

Not a ton of thoughts yet, but I'm kinda surprised at how many misunderstandings there have been. I found the rules to be rather clear. excluding the highstorm/Highstorm thing.

maybe all the 'mistakes' and 'misunderstandings' are part of a meta elim tactic to spread confusion? to waste time n stuff? probably not. but maybe.

Dannex

Getting a bit of an Elim vibe from this. He pops in with this post that basically shades people for the misunderstandings. And in a hedging way at that. And then nothing more from him. I don't think Elims would draw such attention with a tactic like this since misunderstandings are easily cleared up by other players and by the host.

[Gears]

@forget me not's nickname is one of the following: Lethe, Moneta, Ysalles, Astra, Talis. Take as many as you like, minimum one (1). 

The following is a post-by-post analysis. Anything not noted is null.

1. Gears: Analysis
2. Striker: 4 elims, misunderstands events
3. Nettle: Could use Anarchy when confirmed elim
4. Archer: Analysis, misunderstands peace contracts, misunderstands events. [This is a common theme, I see. As always, I disagree with a significant portion of the analysis, but most of my concerns were already addressed.]
5. Whysper: Misunderstands highstorms.
6. Lumi: Exists, votes Tani [I think poke votes are useless.]
7. The Almighty: Clarifications
8. Taniel: Claims villager, talks about another game [don't do that. You just confirmed something that we suspected but did not know.]
9. Striker: Confused.
10. Books: Further misunderstandings. 
11. The Almighty: More clarity
12. Order: Exists, Highstorms [for some unknown reason, Order's posts always give me a terrible impression. I don't know why.]
13. Araris: Votes Archer. [Why do you put your ™ in parentheses instead of the actual one?]
14. Striker: Votes Archer, notes flaws in Archer's plan [Archer has major flaws as elim and villager, nothing too AI.]
15. Books: Points out flaws in Striker's flaw noting. 
16. Striker: Read the rules.
17. Wei: Wants Vengeance early, votes Order [could I have some reasoning to go with that vote?], peace contracts useless, Gears = weird
18. Ys: RP
19. TJ: Archer is wrong, throws knives at Ruby, contracts are useless
20. Taniel: Peace contracts are not easily coordinated
21. Tominel: Thoughts, storms, questions. [I actually feel moderately alright with Quinn this game. Nothing that seems particularly flawed at a cursory glance.]
22. THE ALMIGHTY: Natural Highstorm is its own thing
23. Archer: Realises the truth, now a capitalist. Asks about claiming. [The fact that you suggest it without taking a stance on it is noted.]
24. Araris: Banter, the plan. 
25. Taniel: Names. 
26. THE ALMIGHTY: More clarifications.
27. Danex: Exists, confusion = elim? [Noted for implicating everyone over what amounts to nothing.]
28. Wei: What value is a poke vote? [Poke votes, defined as votes on people who have yet to post and will be removed [or at least altered in reasoning] once the given individual has arrived, are useless, in my opinion. They are as effective as simply @'ing the person, probably because they are usually accompanied by a ping.]
29. Q: Poke votes are useless.
30. Weill: False. [Look, everyone knows that the poke vote will vanish after they show up, and no one wants to poke someone who has been poked, so it's not really any incentive at all. No one's actually going to X a person who hasn't shown up. [Until they do, in which case, that is just extremely rude.]]
31. Books: Claiming narrows possibility for confirmed village roles. [Elhokar isn't a Highprince.]
32. TJ: Don't need claims for accountability. Reads Danex and Books as elim [concur on Danex, not Books, I don't see what they've done at this point]. 
33. The Voice of God: No.
34. Lumi: Concurs with TJ's instincts, finds Tani to be village [they feel distinctly different from their haphazard panic in their semi-elim game, but that isn't a good indicator because they were alone. Confidence can come from being a legionnaire or a mob.]
35. Archer: Wei vote placeholder [placeholder votes are pointless unless voting is mandatory], the plan, don't claim, keeps coordinated highprinces in check
36. Wei: Banterly claims highprince
37. Whysper: Highprinces shouldn't claim, just wait to claim for that situation, Wei banter
38. Wei: Banter
39. Ruby: Vengeance last [terrible idea, but not particularly notable]
40. Lumi: Ties murder = villager death
41. Ruby: Oh.
42. TJ: Depend on the princes to find the elim princes, PV not good as last since mis-X very bad.
43. Elandera: RP
44. Danex: Finds agreeing gut reads to be suspicious [not necessarily true, again, Danex seems to try and pin suspicion on everything]
45. Wei: Danex opinions™?
46. Order: Danex opinions™.
47. Talis: RP
48. Striker: Leaving vote on Archer for encouraging claiming [they said they thought claiming was bad. They just brought it up. I will note that them proposing the option without stating an opinion encourages claiming indirectly]
49. Books: Votes Araris for 'fake-claiming' Ruthar. [RP characters exist.]
50. Lumi: Highprince!Elhokar?
51. Striker: Archer trying to get people to claim
52. THE ALMIGHTY: Elhokar.
53. Archer: Trying for discussion, not claiming. Thoughts on Highprinces.
54. Order: Jokes.
55. Ash: Absent.
56. Araris: RP discussion.
57. Quinn: Bad for highprinces to claim, only works with mindmeld.
58. Casper: Reading Araris and Archer as village 
59. Lumi: Mass claims counter themselves.
60. Wei: Said wrong.
61. Tani: Ninja'd by the page.
62. Lumi: Flaws in highprince claim [I think this plan is well and truly murdered now]
63. Books: Oh.
64. Taniel: Murder!
65. Lumi: Assume everyone is a liar.
66. Illwei: Banter
67. Quinn: Banter
68. THE ALMIGHTY: Banter
69. Archer: Assumptions [are evil].
70. Quinn: Wants more votes, doesn't know who to vote for
71. Araris: Goal is to pressure
72. Striker: Pressure, discussion
73. Whysper: Interested in newbie.
74. Lumi: Feels bad X-ing someone who was mix'ed early recently.
75. Striker: Someone has to die.
76. Wei: Banter
77. Whysper: Yes.
78. Striker: Banter
79. Tani: Banter
80. Illwei: Votes Whysper [I request a touch of reasoning with that vote]
81. Tani: Advocates no vote [that's not possible here, Tani. No vote minimum. And most games don't have a "no vote" option.]
82. THE ALMIGHTY: No vote is invalid
83. Tani: Banter
84. THE ALMIGHTY: INVALID
85. Illwei: Reads Tani as village
86. Striker: Must kill someone for discussion's sake.
87. Tani: Banter. [The word you used to mean "cheated" is an insult to the Roma and perpetuates that stigma. I understand that this was most likely not your intention, but there are many synonyms for that word that are better for common use.]
88. Quinn: Wei's reasoning?
89. Tani: Names.
90. Elandera: Votes Tani for not wanting the D1 X [They did that in LG74. It's normal. I don't think they like the D1 X.]
91. Tani: Just dislikes the D1 X.
92. Araris: There is no vote minimum. Might as well get involved.
93. Tani: Retaliatory vote on Araris. [Tani, you don't have to vote. I almost never vote D1. And voting on someone just because they criticise you is very antagonistic. The arguments for a D1 X are that the responses of people to certain actions will lead to more info later. The X is our weapon, and if we don't use it, then we have nothing. 'Tis not the death we crave, but the interactions between people that come from looking Death in the eyes, the knowledge of how people try to save and kill those of certain alignments. We need knowledge, and death is the avenue by which we acquire it. Someone must die. There is no vote minimum and ties are decided randomly. Someone will die regardless of whether or not we vote, so we should do our best to make sure that the death is based on logical reasoning, however flimsy that reasoning may be. There is no way to stop death, so we instead take control of it.] 
    
    [ninja'd by Whysper, how dare you]
94. Whysper: Votes Danex for shading people. [I agree with this. Since I disagree with the Archer X, especially since they died C2 in the MR, I would be willing to kill Danex here.]

Current thoughts on people:

Danex: Stands accused of causing wide-spread paranoia and incentivising finding NAI things suspicious.

Archer: Stands accused of proposing terrible ideas and not taking a stance on them, thus planting the idea in the general public. [I don't think this is particularly incriminating, but I think it is good to be aware of.]

Taniel: Seems fairly standard. Could be the confidence of having teammates, could be reverting to standard village.  However, they seem distinctly different from their semi-elim game.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Gears
Ninja'd by Whysper

[+Whysper she/her]

4 minutes ago, Gears said:

Danex: Exists, confusion = elim? [Noted for implicating everyone over what amounts to nothing.]

4 minutes ago, Gears said:

Danex: Stands accused of causing wide-spread paranoia and incentivising finding NAI things suspicious.

Haha, mindmeld on this  Glad you noticed this also.

 

[Illwei]

That moment when you've also been getting bad vibes from Danex but now they're conflicting with the bad read you're getting on Whysper because all of her posts up until the Danex vote have been short responses

[Quintessential she/her]

27 minutes ago, Gears said:

[I actually feel moderately alright with Quinn this game. Nothing that seems particularly flawed at a cursory glance.]

Does this mean you don't normally feel moderately alright with me? lol

4 minutes ago, Illwei said:

That moment when you've also been getting bad vibes from Danex but now they're conflicting with the bad read you're getting on Whysper because all of her posts up until the Danex vote have been short responses

A. Ah, so that's why the Whysper vote and B. just because someone you read as elim votes someone else you read as elim doesn't mean you can't read them both elim XD it doesn't even mean they can't both be elim, as I've learned the hard way >> (*cough* you and Maill in LG74 *cough*)

[Illwei]

1 minute ago, Quintessential said:

A. Ah, so that's why the Whysper vote and B. just because someone you read as elim votes someone else you read as elim doesn't mean you can't read them both elim XD it doesn't even mean they can't both be elim, as I've learned the hard way >> (*cough* you and Maill in LG74 *cough*)

Aint mean that they don't both be conflicting reads tho do it

[Quintessential she/her]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Aint mean that they don't both be conflicting reads tho do it

...I think I kind of just said it does mean that? idk XD 

[+Whysper she/her]

22 minutes ago, Illwei said:

That moment when you've also been getting bad vibes from Danex but now they're conflicting with the bad read you're getting on Whysper because all of her posts up until the Danex vote have been short responses

Hmm, I think I respected your vote more when I thought it was just some random poke vote.  Given that I generally don't post a whole lot at once unless I have to combine responses to multiple posts due to catching up. And there hasn't been all that much to respond to so far. And when I have, people have posted in between so haven't needed to combine. So yeah, kind of looking like you are stretching for reasons on this.  

[Illwei]

I'm just going to continue going purely by PoE until I have reason not to

because that's such a good method

[forget me not she/her]

16 hours ago, Whysper said:

I was curious about forget me not. Don't want to vote them, but I think that's the only completely new name for me. I've only seen a couple RP posts from them, so just hope they can get involved more.

@forget me not hello  What's your experience with SE and/or Forum Mafia?

This is my first game, and I am not exactly sure what to think. I am getting a gut read on Illwei though so I guess I'll vote on them.

15 hours ago, StrikerEZ said:

Also, I'm just wondering what nickname we can come up with for forget me not

I don't have a preference for that. Anything that makes since works for me. (:  

[+Whysper she/her]

10 minutes ago, forget me not said:

This is my first game, and I am not exactly sure what to think. I am getting a gut read on Illwei though so I guess I'll vote on them.

Yeah, SE (and Forum Mafia in general) are definitely a whole new experience. It's actually nice to get introduced on this site. Most of the games here involve quite a bit of mech, so at least there's that to get involved with. Because the social read aspect can be kind of confusing and intimidating at first. Other sites often have games purely based on social reads. But stick with it because it does get addicting.  

[Illwei]

Danex

Just realized that it's like 6 hours til EoD huh

It's been a while since I've been voted off as village tbh

EDIT:

29 minutes ago, Whysper said:

Yeah, SE (and Forum Mafia in general) are definitely a whole new experience. It's actually nice to get introduced on this site. Most of the games here involve quite a bit of mech, so at least there's that to get involved with. Because the social read aspect can be kind of confusing and intimidating at first. Other sites often have games purely based on social reads. But stick with it because it does get addicting.  

and other sites are much more competitive and agressive oh ho ho

Edited March 26, 2021 by Illwei

[dannnex male]

Guys, why have we learned about voting off Dannex on D1 of an LG. 
It usually doesn’t end well. 

But all joking aside, I really don’t understand these votes on me.

[Quintessential she/her]

2 minutes ago, Illwei said:

It's been a while since I've been voted off as village tbh

Uhhhh wow okay so there goes my null village read on Illwei. Current VC:

Illwei (2): Archer, Menot
Archer (3): Araris, Striker, Quinn
Randby (1): TJ
Tani (1): Elan
Araris (1): Tani
Dannex (2): Whysper, Illwei

So... Illwei's not about to be voted off... especially since there are 5.5 hours left in the cycle... so that comment just strikes me as odd. Or... idk, performative or something. Like, "look at me, I'm casually so village, you should really just vote someone else :))))" especially since she seems to assume she'll end up voted off? When really one of those votes was a poke by Archer, who just hasn't moved it.

Uhhh yeah I'm gonna... Archer Illwei 

[Mat he/him]

3 minutes ago, Illwei said:

Just realized that it's like 6 hours til EoD huh

5 hours and 33 minutes left in the turn!

I have Track in about three hours, which ends about half an hour before rollover. I should be able to catch up on the thread quickly, but the rollover period might be a bit lengthy as I won't have time to (attempt to, EoD's are great sometimes :P) pre-write the writeup like I did for MR46. Should be fine, though, as most of those pre-write attempts were for naught because of the aforementioned great EoD's. I have practice  

[Illwei]

Just now, Quintessential said:

"look at me, I'm casually so village, you should really just vote someone else :))))"

I thought we've talked about how LAMIST is a terrible reason and not at all Elim AI at all and I hate it with all my being

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, Illwei said:

I thought we've talked about how LAMIST is a terrible reason and not at all Elim AI at all and I hate it with all my being

...we talked about how it's a terrible acronym, not how it's a terrible reason. And besides, it's more just that you were talking about how you were going to be voted off when A. you weren't even in the lead, B. you only had two votes, C. one of those two votes was a poke, placed by someone who would probably have wanted to move the vote elsewhere because he was in the lead, and D. there are 5.5 hours left in the cycle. So it just seems... like an overreaction. okay, overreaction is the wrong word, but it's more... like, being overly worried? about what's going to happen to you. When nobody was really expressing suspicion of you in the first place. that reads elim to me.

[Illwei]

Just now, Quintessential said:

...we talked about how it's a terrible acronym, not how it's a terrible reason. And besides, it's more just that you were talking about how you were going to be voted off when A. you weren't even in the lead, B. you only had two votes, C. one of those two votes was a poke, placed by someone who would probably have wanted to move the vote elsewhere because he was in the lead, and D. there are 5.5 hours left in the cycle. So it just seems... like an overreaction. okay, overreaction is the wrong word, but it's more... like, being overly worried? about what's going to happen to you. When nobody was really expressing suspicion of you in the first place. that reads elim to me.

I mean personally I'd call it a terrible reason, because the people who do it aren't usually doing it for towncred but I'm not here to have this conversation, I guess I'm just here to get into a battle with Quinn again *sigh*

Eh, Whysper indirectly shaded me after I explained my reasoning on her, and I completely forgot about the Archer train tbh lmao.

[Quintessential she/her]

Just now, Illwei said:

Eh, Whysper indirectly shaded me after I explained my reasoning on her, and I completely forgot about the Archer train tbh lmao.

...I'd be more concerned about the indirect shade thing if I hadn't heard that from village you in the past : P idk, "indirect shade" doesn't really seem like a reason for concern to me, because no one's gonna vote you on it, so... but anyway. Those are still like two people, one of whom you were voting for? plus Menot who's new anyway.

[Illwei]

11 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

...I'd be more concerned about the indirect shade thing if I hadn't heard that from village you in the past : P idk, "indirect shade" doesn't really seem like a reason for concern to me, because no one's gonna vote you on it, so... but anyway. Those are still like two people, one of whom you were voting for? plus Menot who's new anyway.

AAAAa you don't- AAA

indirect shade has little to do with influencing otherssssss. it has to do with the fact that I believed that Whysper would have no problem switching to meeeee

11 minutes ago, Quintessential said:

...I'd be more concerned about the indirect shade thing if I hadn't heard that from village you in the past

also. ???

But also it does. have impact that is. if people aren't Elim reading Whysper and they are catching up through the thread then- again. I'm not. I'm not wanting to have this discussion. Yall I joined this game being like "imma be only mildly active" smh.

[Quivil]

3 hours ago, Gears said:

Tani: Banter. [The word you used to mean "cheated" is an insult to the Roma and perpetuates that stigma. I understand that this was most likely not your intention, but there are many synonyms for that word that are better for common use.]

Fixed.  And thanks for correcting me. I won't use it again.

 

Edit: @Matrim's Dice Danex

Edited March 26, 2021 by Tani

[dannnex male]

44 minutes ago, Tani said:

Edit: @Matrim's Dice Danex

Reasoning please

1 hour ago, Illwei said:

Danex

Reasoning please

[Quintessential she/her]

2 minutes ago, Dannex said:

Reasoning please

Yeah uh I'm gonna second (third?) this. I have some slight gut against Dannex but... like... why is everyone else voting him? Just... gut? : P

Edit: wait there are only three people voting him I coulda sworn there were more than that huh okay don't mind me  

Edited March 26, 2021 by Quintessential

[StrikerEZ he/him]

There’s three people voting him? Cool. I like ties.