KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 I just finished the Lord of Scars Shardcast and it got me thinking. We know the Ghostbloods want stormlight, but why? And what else could they be doing? Let's consider that Ghostblood management is based out of Scadrial. Scadrians have access to allomancy, feruchemy and hemalurgy. -Allomancy uses metals to access a fairly powerful magic system. It only requires a small amount of metal but after being used it is exhausted so more metal is required. It's a fairly difficult source to obtain investiture - Feruchemy uses metal. It allows one to store their own attributes for later use. It's very versatile and since you are the source of investiture, its very easy to access. However since their is no outside source of power its not terribly convenient. So, Ghostbloods theoretically have access to two magics that are powerful and versatile but the energy source is inconvenient. Of course they want to transport stormlight offworld, right? If they can figure out how to use it to power their own magic that makes for an easy source of investiture. But when you think about it, it's not that convenient either. But Nalthis would like stormlight since its much more ethical than breaths. Ghostbloods would like access to the heightenings provided by breaths. We know that Scadrial was already involved in interplanetary trade during the lord rulers time. They were sending canned food off world. What if they reestablished the trade network to exchange canned food in exchange for breaths?
Crucible of Shards he/him Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 My conclusion is that the Ghostbloods want a monopoly on the trade of Investiture. They want to decide who get it and for how much. Power+profit. 4
basement_boi he/him Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 Thaidakar is gaining power so he can leave and kill all the nobleman on other planets 2
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Crucible of Shards said: My conclusion is that the Ghostbloods want a monopoly on the trade of Investiture. They want to decide who get it and for how much. Power+profit. It could be that simple. I wonder if they need Scadrian metal for their magic or if any metal will do? There could be a Scadarial Mining and Smelting Company on Roshar recycling all those old cans for investiture. 1 hour ago, basement_boi said: Thaidakar is gaining power so he can leave and kill all the nobleman on other planets You were probably joking but I think he has gotten past that. 1
Frustration Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 16 minutes ago, KSub said: It could be that simple. I wonder if they need Scadrian metal for their magic or if any metal will do? There could be a Scadarial Mining and Smelting Company on Roshar recycling all those old cans for investiture. Any metal will work. 1
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Frustration said: Any metal will work. Is there confirmation of that? It would be great if they have been seeding the Cosmere with Rosharan investiture disguised as garbage. Even better, if that garbage was made of atium.
Frustration Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, KSub said: Is there confirmation of that? It would be great if they have been seeding the Cosmere with Rosharan investiture disguised as garbage. Even better, if that garbage was made of atium. Spoiler Questioner Will iron mined-- created and mined on Roshar work to power Allomancy on Scadrial? This is a clarification from earlier session. Brandon Sanderson Um, hehe… Okay, so what do you want to have happen, talk to me. Explain to me-- Questioner …Iron is iron, does it have the same effect if it will be iron that was created on Roshar-- Brandon Sanderosn Oh, I see what you're saying. Questioner --power Allomancy on Scadrial-- Brandon Sanderson The metals are themselves-- and I've said this before, I think, but-- the metals themselves-- where you get it is not relevant. Moderator So if say Wit is drinking flakes on Roshar, then those flakes could be Roshar-derived. Brandon Sanderson Yes. JordanCon 2016 (April 23, 2016) Long WoB 2
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 Fair enough. That seems odd though. Are Scadrians powers limited to the Scadrian system?
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, KSub said: Fair enough. That seems odd though. Are Scadrians powers limited to the Scadrian system? No. We’ve seen them used on Roshar. Most powers aren’t limited. If you could get a Spren off Roshar you could use surges offworld. We’ve seen Breath used offworld too. 3 hours ago, Crucible of Shards said: My conclusion is that the Ghostbloods want a monopoly on the trade of Investiture. They want to decide who get it and for how much. Power+profit. This. And then they can cut off anyone who messes with Scadrial. Like we literally see the Scadrians doing in Sequel of the Dusk. 1
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: No. We’ve seen them used on Roshar. Most powers aren’t limited. If you could get a Spren off Roshar you could use surges offworld. We’ve seen Breath used offworld too. When do we see allomancy used on Roshar? The thing is stormlight and breaths aren't created offworld. If non Scadrian metal allows allomancy that would be unusual.
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, KSub said: When do we see allomancy used on Roshar? The thing is stormlight and breaths aren't created offworld. If non Scadrian metal allows allomancy that would be unusual. Metal is just a key. Allomancy is inherent and genetic. We’ve seen Hoid use it. 1
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: Metal is just a key. Allomancy is inherent and genetic. We’ve seen Hoid use it. That's true. It just feels like it is less restricted than the other magics. I guess it can be, something just feels off to me. So short of selling stormlight to other worlds I don't see why they would bother getting it offworld.
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 Just now, KSub said: That's true. It just feels like it is less restricted than the other magics. I guess it can be, something just feels off to me. So short of selling stormlight to other worlds I don't see why they would bother getting it offworld. It might be a more stable fuel than Ettmetal. The real reason is to find a way to get Kelsier off Scadrial, of course. But I suspect fiscal controls over the Cosmere to ensure Scadrial’s interests, prosperity and security is a major factor.
KSub Posted February 2, 2021 Author Posted February 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said: It might be a more stable fuel than Ettmetal. The real reason is to find a way to get Kelsier off Scadrial, of course. But I suspect fiscal controls over the Cosmere to ensure Scadrial’s interests, prosperity and security is a major factor. Possible. I just believe there's always another secret with Kelsier. 1
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 2, 2021 Posted February 2, 2021 1 minute ago, KSub said: Possible. I just believe there's always another secret with Kelsier. Oh, there always is! 1
AquaRegia he/him Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 OK, this seems like as good a place as any to try to get some Kelsier questions cleared up. WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD FOR MISTBORN ERA 1 AND 2, SECRET HISTORY, WARBREAKER, AND PROBABLY EVERYTHING ELSE. We are supposed to believe that Kelsier is "stuck" on Scadrial and wants to be able to worldhop. But WHY IS HE STILL STUCK? As seen in BoM, he's got a physical body as of Catacendre + a few years. He's been a cognitive shadow with a physical body for 300+ years by the time we get to "current" Roshar. He knows Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy; he's got access to a culture in Southern Scadrial who can make unkeyed metalminds for anything, including Connection and Investiture; and he's got agents all over the Cosmere. And we know that both cognitive shadows and highly invested objects can travel to Roshar from offworld, otherwise, how did Vasher and Nightblood get there? I don't get it. Seems to me if Kelsier hasn't been able to figure out how he can leave Scadrial in 300 years, he isn't trying.
StanLemon Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 It is odd that he's still stuck. It's probably something to do with how he became a Sliver after death and that he's held together with Preservation's Investiture rather than just being a Cognitive Shadow. Returned are special though as Brandon has said there is something unique to the way Divine Breaths and Endowments Investiture work.
Kingsdaughter613 she/her Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 17 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: OK, this seems like as good a place as any to try to get some Kelsier questions cleared up. WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD FOR MISTBORN ERA 1 AND 2, SECRET HISTORY, WARBREAKER, AND PROBABLY EVERYTHING ELSE. We are supposed to believe that Kelsier is "stuck" on Scadrial and wants to be able to worldhop. But WHY IS HE STILL STUCK? As seen in BoM, he's got a physical body as of Catacendre + a few years. He's been a cognitive shadow with a physical body for 300+ years by the time we get to "current" Roshar. He knows Allomancy, Feruchemy, and Hemalurgy; he's got access to a culture in Southern Scadrial who can make unkeyed metalminds for anything, including Connection and Investiture; and he's got agents all over the Cosmere. And we know that both cognitive shadows and highly invested objects can travel to Roshar from offworld, otherwise, how did Vasher and Nightblood get there? I don't get it. Seems to me if Kelsier hasn't been able to figure out how he can leave Scadrial in 300 years, he isn't trying. I mean, Kalak’s been working on the problem for 4000 years, so... It’s been 350 years for Kell. First ten he was working on getting a body. Then he spends a few decades rebuilding South Scadrial. So let’s say we’re at 290. Then he really starts feeling that he can’t get off world. But he doesn’t know why and knows he doesn’t know enough to figure it out. So he sets that aside. Then he starts building the Ghostbloods as an organization. Let’s say this takes ten/fifteen years to really get moving off Scadrial. Now we’re at 275. He spends the next few decades gathering information. Around 250 Spook steps down and joins him. Meanwhile, Kell has discovered Cosmere politics and starts getting involved because, well, Kelsier. He can’t not. The next century is spent studying, learning about Cosmere politics, infiltrating governments and growing the Ghostbloods. At some point Kelsier gets distracted/needs a new project and sends the GBs off to find Yolen. Then he wants to know what’s hiding on Patji. He has the GBs find a passage to Sel. He starts dealing with Autonomy. He discovers that Drifter is rather more than he expected. He’s very busy and traveling offworld isn’t as important as learning everything he can and consolidating as much power as possible for himself and Scadrial. At some point during all of this he and Harmony have a (possibly manufactured) falling out. Also, he’s doing stuff on Scadrial. And Trell starts becoming an issue. About 150 years ago he really starts working at the Connection problem, which he now knows is a bigger problem than just his inability to get off Scadrial. And then works on that, but also on other things. It’s not his sole focus. There are more important things - like that idiot trying to bring back the Desolations which could potentially free Odium. And Harmony’s increasing lack of Autonomy (maybe they should steal him some...? Put it on the list.) And those Set people are causing trouble. And Drifter’s still being an annoyance. And he has to convince the Ghostbloods he can kinda worldhop even though he totally can’t. And some stupid chit on Roshar actually thinks she can declare war on him. (Ha! She has no idea...) He’s very busy! But, well, it’s perturbing. Annoying. It’s not URGENT, but... He’d really like to see those other worlds... He’s definitely going to get it before that idiot Herald though! 3
LewsTherinTelescope Posted February 3, 2021 Posted February 3, 2021 59 minutes ago, AquaRegia said: And we know that both cognitive shadows and highly invested objects can travel to Roshar from offworld, otherwise, how did Vasher and Nightblood get there? Normal Breaths are apparently much easier to deal with in this regard, due to Endowment's nature, so it's possible that the two things you mention there, which are highly Invested with Endowment Investiture, might also be easier to deal with than they'd otherwise be. Quote Badger1289 If Investiture can’t be moved beyond a certain point away from its world/solar system, how in the Cosmere did three Awakeners end up on Roshar? Brandon Sanderson Investiture from different systems acts in different ways. Certain people have managed, for example, to get some kinds of Investiture to leave their home world through the use of a kind of magical pipeline. Breaths attach to the identity of the individual, and are fully given away--freely, which removes some of this Connection. It's a nature of Endowment that the gift is given without strings attached, so to speak. But while it's a renewable resource, it's a difficult one. Roshar is extra "sticky" so to speak with Investiture. It's part of the nature of Honor, Cultivation, and oaths. So getting it off is a problem, though collecting it is not. Echono Wouldn't consuming it also be a problem? You need a direct or secondary Bond to take in Stormlight Investiture. It's not like metals or Breaths that anyone could absorb. Although a certain grouchy ardent might have found a way... Brandon Sanderson You are right in that Stormlight is more being seen as a power source, since certain systems in the cosmere can work on a variety of different kinds. Not just anyone could make use of it, at least not unless it is refined. Rhythm of War Preview Q&As (Oct. 8, 2020) 1
AquaRegia he/him Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 Hopefully @Kingsdaughter613 will be available to write Secret History 2, just in case Brandon never gets around to it! I know I don't get to choose how things work out (have worked out) for our favorite crew leader. But I can't help but feel that with Allomancy, Feruchemy, Hemalurgy, Realmatic technology, Cosmere awareness, allies, minions, spies, and hundreds of years... if there was a way, he'd have been able to find it. 3
basement_boi he/him Posted February 4, 2021 Posted February 4, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 0:26 PM, KSub said: You were probably joking but I think he has gotten past that. Yeah, I was joking.
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