Horneaters are agents of Cultivation – a Theory

[voxtruth he/him]

Background

• Lift converts food into Cultivation’s Lifelight to power her Radiant abilities
• There is connection between the Horneaters and Cultivation by virtue of Cultivation's perpendicularity being in the Horneater Peaks
• Rock, the self-appointed chef of Bridge 4, described a birth-order based caste system where the first two sons are responsible for obtaining food so there’s always enough

Theory

• Food is particularly important to the Horneaters because it fuels Lifelight
• Horn-eaters, including Rock, have abilities granted by Cultivation/Lifelight.
  • Rock has enhanced physical ability as he was able to draw the shard bow
  • Rock’s unwillingness to bond a spren is related to his Life-light abilities
• Lift’s ability to touch spren while in the Physical Realm by existing partially in the Cognitive Realm is from Cultivation and is related to the Horneater’s ability to see spren
  • Rock says that those who swim in the ‘Water’s of Life’ (aka Cultivation’s perpendicularity) can see the ‘place of gods’ (aka Shadesmar)
  • Rock has the ability to see spren and implies that other Horneaters can do the same
• Horneaters are a hybrid race of humans and singers. This is the result of Cultivation’s influence. The Horneater people have been 'cultivated' since the early days of Roshar and will be important to Cultivation's future plans

Open Question

• Cultivation’s perpendicularity is spread out over several pools on several peaks. Would they all grant the same powers or does each grant something different. Brandon has said the number of peaks is important but RAFO'd the specific number – could this be related to the number of abilities?
  EDIT: WOB Link: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6332

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by voxtruth

[Frustration he/him]

27 minutes ago, voxtruth said:

Open Question

• Cultivation’s perpendicularity is spread out over several pools on several peaks. Would they all grant the same powers or does each grant something different. Brandon has said the number of peaks is important but RAFO'd the specific number – could this be related to the number of abilities?

Could you please link the WoB here, thanks

And I can't say why but I get the feeling and maybe I'm being weird but I just have this feeling that maybe 10 is the answer to the number.

Good theory but for what purpose?

[mathiau he/him]

Quote

Horn-eaters, including Rock, have abilities granted by Cultivation/Lifelight.

It actually comes from direct action of lesser sprens

Quote

Rock has the ability to see spren and implies that other Horneaters can do the same

Actually no, only some of them can.

Quote

Lift’s ability to touch spren while in the Physical Realm by existing partially in the Cognitive Realm is from Cultivation and is related to the Horneater’s ability to see spren

I'd add to this list the Singer's ability to see more of the spren when they attract and The Lopen's ability to taste from which gemstone Stormlight came from

On 18/12/2020 at 5:19 AM, Frustration said:

And I can't say why but I get the feeling and maybe I'm being weird but I just have this feeling that maybe 10 is the answer to the number.

Honestly I'm betting on 11

[apepi]

Aren't their food a lot of people don't like? It is too hard? And does not put a lot of spice in it. Also they have like the strongest alcohol their is.

[Bejarden he/him]

This is because of the singer-human hybrid I believe

they have stronger jaws and can resist more wine

[XaviGzz]

On 12/18/2020 at 5:19 AM, Frustration said:

And I can't say why but I get the feeling and maybe I'm being weird but I just have this feeling that maybe 10 is the answer to the number.

It's heavily implied that 10 is significant to Honor only, as well as 9 is to Odium. 16 to Scadrial (and bigger picture to the Cosmere in general). I would bet cultivation's number is different to Odium's and Honor's.

[Frustration he/him]

1 hour ago, XaviGzz said:

It's heavily implied that 10 is significant to Honor only, as well as 9 is to Odium. 16 to Scadrial (and bigger picture to the Cosmere in general). I would bet cultivation's number is different to Odium's and Honor's.

Actually 10 is the number of the entire Rosharan system, except Braize, the Shards had nothing to do with it.

[Ixthos he/him]

36 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Actually 10 is the number of the entire Rosharan system, except Braize, the Shards had nothing to do with it.

It does raise interesting questions though:

• Do the numbers come from the Shards, or groups of Shards, or from the solar systems or individual planets?
  • For groups of Shards, if Honour and Cultivation together make the system 10, then Braize's uniqueness in the system being a different number would be because Odium makes it 9
• If it is because of the Shards, why does each have the number it does, and how universal are they? Or is it because multiple Shards together produce a number, i.e. 16 isn't Preservation's number, but rather Ruin and Preservation together produce the significance of 16.
  • Key point is that both 10 and 16 are important to the Cosmere, 16 for the number of Shards, 10 for the number of major worlds
• If it is because of the planets or solar systems, and the Cosmere consists of around 50 to 100 stars, is it an index number for them, or could some have the same number, or does it only apply to planets with Shards?
• Do the significant numbers start at 1 and go up to 16?

[mathiau he/him]

Just now, Ixthos said:

It does raise interesting questions though:

• Do the numbers come from the Shards, or groups of Shards, or from the solar systems or individual planets?
  • For groups of Shards, if Honour and Cultivation together make the system 10, then Braize's uniqueness in the system being a different number would be because Odium makes it 9
• If it is because of the Shards, why does each have the number it does, and how universal are they? Or is it because multiple Shards together produce a number, i.e. 16 isn't Preservation's number, but rather Ruin and Preservation together produce the significance of 16.
  • Key point is that both 10 and 16 are important to the Cosmere, 16 for the number of Shards, 10 for the number of major worlds
• If it is because of the planets or solar systems, and the Cosmere consists of around 50 to 100 stars, is it an index number for them, or could some have the same number, or does it only apply to planets with Shards?
• Do the significant numbers start at 1 and go up to 16?

The significant number for each planets are almost always 4 or 16

Also

Quote

The Only Joe (paraphrased)

Do all shards have a number they're associated with?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Some do, (most/some) don't.

Firefight Portland signing (Jan. 16, 2015)

[Frustration he/him]

1 minute ago, mathiau said:

The significant number for each planets are almost always 4 or 16

Aether planet is twelve.

[Ixthos he/him]

6 minutes ago, mathiau said:

The significant number for each planets are almost always 4 or 16

Thanks :-) I have to contest part of that though, as Nalthis's number is 5. I can't think of any which use 4 I'm afraid.

 

6 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Aether planet is twelve.

I'd forgotten that, thanks :-)

 

[mathiau he/him]

9 minutes ago, Frustration said:

Aether planet is twelve.

I didn't know that, thanks

1 minute ago, Ixthos said:

Thanks :-) I have to contest part of that though, as Nalthis's number is 5.

Wait, how is Nalthis 5?

Quote

I can't think of any which use 4 I'm afraid.

Me neither but Khriss can.

Though she was talking of the number of fundamental elements and while there's basically no way that number is different from the significant number, maybe it's just that most words with a different significant number don't have fundamental elements. It'd be weird though

[Ixthos he/him]

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

Wait, how is Nalthis 5?

5 scholars, multiples of 5 for each Heightening, 5 visions, Pahn Khal believe in a unity of 5 gods, etc.

[Edit] Also, the divine Breath of a Returned is automatically at the fifth Heightening.[/Edit]

 

2 hours ago, mathiau said:

Me neither but Khriss can.

Though she was talking of the number of fundamental elements and while there's basically no way that number is different from the significant number, maybe it's just that most words with a different significant number don't have fundamental elements. It'd be weird though

Actually ... that's making me wonder. There are four Dawnshards, and the Dawnshards originated on Yolen, or were present there if the shattering happened there ... could Yolen be the planet with the number 4?

Edited March 22, 2021 by Ixthos

[LewsTherinTelescope]

1 hour ago, Ixthos said:

Do the numbers come from the Shards, or groups of Shards, or from the solar systems or individual planets?

• For groups of Shards, if Honour and Cultivation together make the system 10, then Braize's uniqueness in the system being a different number would be because Odium makes it 9

 

I'd guess it comes from the perception of the people on the planets, at least for Roshar. The Rosharans and presumably Ashynites believe in ten Surges, ten fundamental forces of creation, which then causes things to manifest in tens. Meanwhile, the inhabitants of Braize, the Fused, only believe in nine, due to believing Adhesion is a false Surge, and so most things happen in nines there. Related:

Quote

Argent

My understanding of the... spren is that they grant powers based on what they understand to be fundamental? Ish?

Brandon Sanderson

Ish. I wouldn't 100% go with that. I would say these are the fundamental forces-- They aren't as scientific as our fundamental forces, but I would say it's more than just what the spren view and what the humans view in that case. But they are more philosophical than scientific, in cases.

Argent

Other cognitive beings, could they-- A spren on Earth. Would it grant electromagnetism surge, for example?

Brandon Sanderson

That, I would say yes.

Skyward Chicago signing (Nov. 16, 2018)

[Ixthos he/him]

4 minutes ago, LewsTherinTelescope said:

I'd guess it comes from the perception of the people on the planets, at least for Roshar. The Rosharans and presumably Ashynites believe in ten Surges, ten fundamental forces of creation, which then causes things to manifest in tens. Meanwhile, the inhabitants of Braize, the Fused, only believe in nine, due to believing Adhesion is a false Surge, and so most things happen in nines there. Related:

The only problem with that is that logic doesn't work on Scadrial, as most inhabitants in Era 1 don't know the significance of 16, unless the original Terris people did and it persisted. Also Nalthis and five seem to all be independent examples of five showing up. It certainly can explain Roshar, though it doesn't seem as effective for other planets.

[LewsTherinTelescope]

11 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

The only problem with that is that logic doesn't work on Scadrial, as most inhabitants in Era 1 don't know the significance of 16, unless the original Terris people did and it persisted.

I imagine in the past they did, yeah. And the Steel Ministry considers sixteen holy, to the point that they even say "well there has to be sixteen metals and we're just missing some".

Quote

“There does for one this strange,” Elend said. “Did you realize that it strikes down exactly sixteen percent of the population? Sixteen percent—to the man.”

 

Instead of being surprised, Yomen just shrugged. “Makes sense.”

 

“Sense?” Elend asked.

 

“Sixteen is a powerful number, Venture,” Yomen said, looking over some reports. “It was the number of days it took the Lord Ruler to reach the Well of Ascension, for instance. It figures prominently in Church doctrine.”

 

Of course, Elend thought. Yomen wouldn’t be surprised to find order in nature—he believes in a god who ordered that nature.

 

“Sixteen . . .” Elend said, glancing at the sick boy.

 

“The number of original Inquisitors,” Yomen said. “The number of Precepts in each Canton charter. The number of Allomantic metals. The—”

 

“Wait,” Elend said, looking up. “What?”

 

“Allomantic metals,” Yomen said.

 

“There are only fourteen of those.”

 

Yomen shook his head. “Fourteen we know of, assuming your lady was right about the metal paired to aluminum. However, fourteen is not a number of power. Allomantic metals come in sets of two, with groupings of four. It seems likely that there are two more we haven’t discovered, bringing the number to sixteen. Two by two by two by two. Four physical metals, four mental metals, four enhancement metals, and four temporal metals.”

 

11 minutes ago, Ixthos said:

Also Nalthis and five seem to all be independent examples of five showing up.

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to tell where a magical thing is intended or where Brandon just wants a theme, lol. I'd note that those examples of five all probably are very connected to Endowment, whether that's because Endowment is inherently tied to five or because perception of five as a special number makes her act that way.

Edited March 22, 2021 by LewsTherinTelescope
formatting

[Ixthos he/him]

@LewsTherinTelescope Fair enough :-P good points.