Jasnah Knows [discuss]

[Jofwu he/him]

I wanted to put this out there... In Rhythm of War we discovered that there's more to the Recreance than Oathbringer led us to believe. This idea isn't particularly surprising and has long been speculated of course. We are not, unfortunately, much closer to knowing the details.

But I think Jasnah knows.

What we did learn is that Ba-Ado-Mishram's imprisonment did something deeply wrong that was not predicted. We knew that this act turned the singers into parshmen, but it seems to have done something else. I'll highlight the chapter 94 & 97 epigraphs:

Quote

I was there when Ba-Ado-Mishram was captured. I know the truth of the Radiants, the Recreance, and the Nahel spren.

-----

As one who has suffered for so many centuries … as one whom it broke … please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren.

For I believe that in confining her, we have caused a greater wound to Roshar than any ever realized.

So the imprisonment of Ba-Ado-Mishram seems to have affected "all spren". It caused "a greater wound to Roshar" than the Heralds predicted. And the secret involves "the Radiants, the Recreance, and the Nahel spren."

What the heck could this be?!? This is one piece of lore that is most exciting to me for discussions. I don't have a great theory on this myself. What I'm here to post right now is simply this: Jasnah does know, as does Wit. (Perhaps Taravangian as well, and thus maybe other former members of the Diagram.)

Here's a quote from Oathbringer chapter 47:

Quote

“Ten orders,” Jasnah said. “All ended in death.”

“All but one,” Ivory agreed. “They lived in death instead.”

She turned around, and he met her eyes with his own. No pupils, just oil shimmering above something deeply black.

“We must tell the others what we learned from Wit, Ivory. Eventually, this secret must be known.”

“Jasnah, no. It would be the end. Another Recreance.”

Before Rhythm of War, it was easy to miss the real meaning of this passage. Jasnah's first comment seems to be about the Knights Radiant "dying" with the Recreance. Ivory's response seems to be saying, "Well, all except for the Skybreakers."

But that's not what they're saying at all. Notice that Ivory isn't correcting Jasnah. Ivory agrees with Jasnah. He corrects that that all ten "ended" in death, but he agrees with the "death" part.

Maya sheds a bit of light on what happened in chapter 94:

Quote

 

“Did you know the full cost, Maya?” Adolin asked, the question suddenly occurring to him. “Did you and your Radiants know that you would become deadeyes?”

Adolin felt Maya searching deep, pushing through her exhaustion, seeking … memories that were difficult for her to access. Eventually, she shook her head and whispered, “Pain. Yes. Death? No. Maybe.”

Adolin sat beside her, letting her lean against him. “Why, Maya? Why were you willing to do it?”

“To save … save…” She sagged and shook her head.

“To save us from something worse,” Adolin said, then looked to Blended

 

So something about BAM's capture drive them to the Recreance. They expected pain, but didn't really expect "death." It suggests that the notion of "deadeyes" is a post-Recreance (post-BAM-capture I should say) phenomenon. They didn't realize what they would become. Of course, the big change wasn't just the deadeye part. The BIG issue was whatever drove them to break their bonds in the first place, though I think they must be some relation there.

The most interesting thing from that Oathbringer excerpt is Ivory's comment about the highspren. The order that "lived in death" rather than "ending in death". Curious if others have thoughts on what this might mean.

What does it mean that the highspren "live in death"? Do they still? Just the spren who were alive before the capture of BAM? What about her capture caused them to die. Why did all the other Nahel spren choose to risk "ending" rather than "living in death"?

Whatever the answer may be, I think Jasnah already knows.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

2 hours ago, Jofwu said:

So something about BAM's capture drive them to the Recreance.

Or hypothetically it made them realize that their understanding was incorrect.

2 hours ago, Jofwu said:

They expected pain, but didn't really expect "death." It suggests that the notion of "deadeyes" is a post-Recreance (post-BAM-capture I should say) phenomenon. They didn't realize what they would become. Of course, the big change wasn't just the deadeye part.

Yet the Knights Radiant existed for millenia before the Recreance. No Knight breaking his oaths in all those years is quite unlikely. So what happened to an oathbreaker's spren before that time? It looks like the capture changed oaths themselves.

 

[Jofwu he/him]

9 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Or hypothetically it made them realize that their understanding was incorrect.

Yet the Knights Radiant existed for millenia before the Recreance. No Knight breaking his oaths in all those years is quite unlikely. So what happened to an oathbreaker's spren before that time? It looks like the capture changed oaths themselves.

Right, my point there was that deadeyes (as we know them at least) didn't exist pre-Recreance. That isn't to say Knights had never broken their oaths. Just that the aftermath of doing so was different.

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

I think we have to start by asking what exactly BAM did.  Apparently she Connected herself to the singers, many many of them, to give them forms of power.  In doing this, could BAM have inadvertently made herself some sort of god?  Did her imprisonment have such a terrible effect on Roshar because of her new deep connection to the world itself?    

[GudThymes he/him]

24 minutes ago, ShalladinForever said:

In doing this, could BAM have inadvertently made herself some sort of god?

From what Raboniel was trying to do to the sibling I think the causality here is reversed. BAM must have been a grand spren and was then unmade (corrupted?) by odium. Given the effect BAMs imprisonment had on the singers and spren -- my theory is that she may have been a spren that pre-dated the human arrival and was the embodiment of bonds on Roshar (other than the Nahel bond).

[Ba-Ado-Fisherman]

2 minutes ago, GudThymes said:

From what Raboniel was trying to do to the sibling I think the causality here is reversed. BAM must have been a grand spren and was then unmade (corrupted?) by odium. Given the effect BAMs imprisonment had on the singers and spren -- my theory is that she may have been a spren that pre-dated the human arrival and was the embodiment of bonds on Roshar (other than the Nahel bond).

Ok, I like this.  Was hoping that we'd get to see BAM in RoW, looks like we'll have to wait a few more years.  I'm guessing she's more important than we were lead to believe.

[TheOneKEA]

I posted a theory about Ba-Ado-Mishram in the lore board:

My theory agrees in part with ShalladinForever but I have some thoughts about what happened Realmatically.

[Jofwu he/him]

3 hours ago, GudThymes said:

Given the effect BAMs imprisonment had on the singers and spren -- my theory is that she may have been a spren that pre-dated the human arrival and was the embodiment of bonds on Roshar (other than the Nahel bond).

I had the same thought! Strongly supported, I think, by the way Kalak refers to her as "Mishram" rather than "Ba-Ado-Mishram". Seems to imply her original, pre-Unmade name. It makes a lot of sense to me that she would be... I dunno, Connected to certain aspects of Roshar. If she could Connect to all the Singers like that then perhaps she could had lots of Connections with the spren (or other aspects of Roshar) prior to being Unmade. Perhaps some of those Connections still lingered.

Heck, it seems like a fairly solid theory to me.

The thing I wonder more about is what those Connections were exactly, what their severing did (particularly to the spren, it seems), and why that severing prompted the Recreance.

[spitfireky she/her]

7 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

I had the same thought! Strongly supported, I think, by the way Kalak refers to her as "Mishram" rather than "Ba-Ado-Mishram". Seems to imply her original, pre-Unmade name. It makes a lot of sense to me that she would be... I dunno, Connected to certain aspects of Roshar. If she could Connect to all the Singers like that then perhaps she could had lots of Connections with the spren (or other aspects of Roshar) prior to being Unmade. Perhaps some of those Connections still lingered.

I wonder if the "Ado" portion of her name has any connection to Adonalsium.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

10 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

I had the same thought! Strongly supported, I think, by the way Kalak refers to her as "Mishram" rather than "Ba-Ado-Mishram". Seems to imply her original, pre-Unmade name.

Or that it simply means something like "Supreme Lady Mishram" and Kalak just understands the language.

10 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

It makes a lot of sense to me that she would be... I dunno, Connected to certain aspects of Roshar. If she could Connect to all the Singers like that then perhaps she could had lots of Connections with the spren (or other aspects of Roshar) prior to being Unmade. Perhaps some of those Connections still lingered.

Were there Thunderclasts around? If so she had Connection to at least some stone.

10 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

Heck, it seems like a fairly solid theory to me.

The thing I wonder more about is what those Connections were exactly, what their severing did (particularly to the spren, it seems), and why that severing prompted the Recreance.

What makesyou think that the Connections were severed? Malishi altered the Singers. That looks like rather than breaking the Connection he ripped the anchoring parts out of the Singers. That suggests that soul fragments and some spren ended up in that perfect gem together with Ba-Ado-Mishram.

[Jofwu he/him]

10 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

Or that it simply means something like "Supreme Lady Mishram" and Kalak just understands the language.

Could be, I'm just theorizing. I think it's telling he calls her a different name, but there are certainly other explanations.

11 minutes ago, Oltux72 said:

What makesyou think that the Connections were severed? Malishi altered the Singers. That looks like rather than breaking the Connection he ripped the anchoring parts out of the Singers. That suggests that soul fragments and some spren ended up in that perfect gem together with Ba-Ado-Mishram.

I don't know that "severed" is necessarily the best term, but I definitely disagree with your interpretation in general. I think it's pretty clear that what they DID was merely imprison Ba-Ado-Mishram. What happened to the singers was a side effect. A side effect they were exploiting, and which they didn't fully understand the extent of.

Quote

79	"Our revelation is fueled by the theory that the Unmade can perhaps be captured like ordinary spren. It would require a special prison. And Melishi."	30-20	third emerald
80	"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her."	30-20	fourth emerald
81	"We are uncertain the effects this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects."	30-20	fifth emerald

Quote

58	"So Melishi retired to his tent, and resolved to destroy the Voidbringers upon the next day, but that night did present a different stratagem, related to the unique abilities of the Bondsmiths; and being hurried, he could make no specific account of his process; it was related to the very nature of the Heralds and their divine duties, an attribute the Bondsmiths alone could address."	chapter 30, page 18

Quote

As one who has suffered for so many centuries … as one whom it broke … please find Mishram and release her. Not just for her own good. For the good of all spren.

For I believe that in confining her, we have caused a greater wound to Roshar than any ever realized.

I think they put BAM in a gemstone and it disrupted some (all?) of her Connections in some way that did damage to the things she was Connected to. I think of it like she was tied to them and somebody came along and yanked the cord, pulling part of the thing it was attached too away.

I don't know that the Connection itself and those pulled-out-pieces were trapped with BAM or if they were simply broken up and "decomposed".

[Lightspine]

17 hours ago, Jofwu said:

So something about BAM's capture drive them to the Recreance. They expected pain, but didn't really expect "death." It suggests that the notion of "deadeyes" is a post-Recreance (post-BAM-capture I should say) phenomenon. They didn't realize what they would become. Of course, the big change wasn't just the deadeye part. The BIG issue was whatever drove them to break their bonds in the first place, though I think they must be some relation there.

I think there's one other thing you left out; BAM's capture also seems to coincide with the Sibling losing their ability to create Towerlight and falling asleep:

Quote

I have... been wounded. Thousands of years ago, something happened that changed the signers. It hurt me too.

Navani covered her shock. "You're speaking of the binding of that Unmade, which made the singers lose their forms?"

Yes. That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too.

"How have no spren mentioned this?"

I don't know. But I lost the rhythm of my Light that day. The tower stopped working. My father, Honor, should have been able to help me, but he was losing his mind. And he soon died...

- Rhythm of War, Chapter 49, Page 621 of the U.S. Hardcover

I'm not sure how that is connected with the rest, but I do have an idea about BAM that covers both the deadeyes and the Singers.

Sja-anat calls the Bondsmith spren her "cousins." We also know that that the Sibling would have become one of the Unmade had Raboniel succeeded. This makes it almost definitive that the Unmade were once ancient spren and a part of Roshar's ecosystem. Of equal or similar level to the Stormfather himself to the operations of the planet. I think Ba-Ado-Mishram's role was—and continued to be after her Unmaking (for lack of a better word)—some sort of spiritual healing. It's the common thread that the Parshmen and the Deadeyes share. Part of their spiritweb was ripped out, and never healed. 

As for the Sibling, when Navani is bonding them at the end of the book, this happens:

Quote

Honor's song welled up inside her, and she sang it. The pillar began to vibrate as the Sibling sang Cultivation's song. The pure sound of Lifelight. The sound began to shift, and Navani modulated her tone, inching it closer and closer to...

The two snapped into harmony.

...

"That is it, the Sibling whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower. My song.

"Our emulsifier," Navani whispered to the Rhythm of the Tower.

The common ground, the Sibling said. Between humans and spren. That is... that is why I was created, so long ago...

- Rhythm of War, Chapter 110, Page 1149 of the U.S. Hardcover

There's two interpretations of this. The first I find boring and downright weird; that when the Sibling "lost the rhythm of [their] light" upon BAM's capture they actually only lost Honor's Rhythm, but remembered Cultivation's. Navani just needed to provide Honor's.

The second interpretation is that the Sibling lost the emulsifier. I like this idea better. It's more cohesive than BAM, a spren of Odium, somehow being necessary to provide Honor's Rhythm to the Sibling.

So, combining these separate ideas together, I think BAM was needed for healing of the spiritweb on Roshar, and also related to the "emulsification" or the bridging of Humans and Spren (and Singers too I guess?). Looking at this from the angle of Connection, I think I have the answer; BAM Connected the (native?) inhabitants of Roshar with something that they all shared. Part of my first quote from the Sibling was:

Quote

That terrible act touched the souls of all who belong to Roshar. Spren too.

Whatever it was that they shared, it was something that allowed them to heal their spiritwebs. This also explains how BAM Connected with all of the Singers in the fist place—by strengthening the Connection she already had. Connections are also somewhat transitive—if two spiritwebs are Connected to the same thing, that provides some Connection between the two spiritwebs (evidence: Dalinar Connects with an Azish person, whose Connection with their language allows Dalinar to speak that language). This means that by Connecting humans and spren to the same source, this may have provided some sort of emulsifier.

[Samuel]

Really getting a kick out of these replies, but a great deal of this speculation relies on the account of the Herald Kalak.

Quote

Do not trust anything any Herald says. Ever.

 

 

[Seloun]

Crazy theory - We know that, from Ishar's bit, that Radiants swearing oaths can cause some sort of recovery from insanity:

Quote

“I can see clearly,” the voice said from within the perpendicularity. “I do not know why. Has a Bondsmith been sworn? We have a Connection, all of us.… Nevertheless, I feel my sanity slipping. My mind is broken, and I do not know if it can be healed. “Perhaps you can restore me for a short time after an Ideal is spoken near me.

Everyone sees a little more clearly when a Radiant touches the Spiritual Realm. For now, listen well. I have the answer, a way to fix the problems that beset us. Come to me in Shinovar. I can reset the Oathpact, though I must be sane to do it. I must … have help … to…”

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

We also know that right around the Recreance, Honor was losing his mind. And the spren that died during the Recreance were trying to save something...or someone. What if they were trying to restore Honor? If one person swearing the oaths could recover Ishar's sanity for a few moments, what about hundreds doing so at once? We can presume before the Recreance, the breaking of the bonds didn't cause spren to die as they do in modern times (points for this made already earlier in the thread). So the crazy plan may have been for all of the existing Radiants to break their bonds, free their spren, and have a whole lot of people bond at once.

This is actually how I think things will go in Book 5 - we have a huge collection of deadeyes following Adolin around now, while Kaladin has essentially been training people en masse to be ready to bond as Radiants. Shallan 'primes the pump', so to speak, by figuring out exactly how the process to work with her dead spren, and in the end, Honor is restored through the collective action of a lot of people bonding themselves to the remnants of the Shard (Honor lives in the hearts of men, taken literally).

There are two sections that really stood out to me regarding the problem with having Vessels for the Shards:

Quote

Dalinar wavered. Stopping now, with Azir and Thaylenah safe—with a good portion of Roshar protected, and with a chance for more in Alethkar and Herdaz if he won—was truly more than he ever thought possible. A true end to the war.

Jasnah spoke of the need for councils. Groups of leaders. She thought putting too much power in the hands of one individual was dangerous. He could finally see her point, as he stood there on that field of golden light. This new deal would be good for his allies—they’d celebrate it, most likely. But he couldn’t know for certain. He had to make a decision.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

This is referring to the conversation they had earlier:

Quote

“I do like them,” he said. “I just don’t like how much bureaucracy Fen has to go through before anything gets done. The Azish are even worse. Why name your ruler an ‘emperor’ if he has to get approval from a dozen different functionaries to do his job?”

“One is a constitutional monarchy, the other a scholarly republic,” Jasnah said, sounding amused. “What did you expect?”

“A king to be a king,” he muttered, drinking the rest of his wine in one gulp.

“Both of their governments go back centuries,” Jasnah said. “They’ve had generations to refine their processes. We’d do well to learn from them.” She eyed him, thoughtful. “The days of absolute power in one person’s hands will likely soon pass us by. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m the last true Alethi monarch.”

“What would your father say, hearing you talk like that?”

“I suspect I could make him understand,” she said. “He was interested in his legacy. Building something that would span generations. His goals were laudable, but his methods … well, our kingdom has been difficult to maintain. A king ruling by the gauntlet and sword can easily see it slip away when he weakens. Compare this to the Azish system, where a bad Prime is unable to single-handedly ruin their government.”

“And a good one is unable to accomplish much,” Dalinar said, then held his hand up to forestall further argument. “I see what you’re saying. But I find nobility in the traditional way of rule.”

“Having read the histories, I believe the nobility you imagine is created from stories about the inhabitants of ancient days, but rarely possessed by said inhabitants. Those kings tended to live short, brutal lives. No matter. Once we win this war, I expect to have decades to persuade you.”

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

Initially this just reads like setting up for a democratic evolution on Roshar (and that's part of it, I'm sure). But combined with the first section - what if the Shards could somehow be borne by a group of people rather than just a single individual? What happened on Scadrial is one way to mitigate the influence of the Shards to prevent them from being so unbalanced (combine several of them together); perhaps another way is to instead spread the influence around groups of people. The Oathpact could have been an unintended prototype.

As a separate note, I think one of the consequence for sealing away BAM was that it made the spren somehow mortal, or more mortal than before:

Quote

“I am sorry,” Navani said, “for discovering this Light. It will let spren be killed.”

It was coming to us, the Sibling said. Consequences once chased only humans. With the Recreance, the consequences became ours as well. You have simply sealed that truth as eternal.

Sanderson, Brandon. Rhythm of War (The Stormlight Archive) . Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition. 

This is probably why the Recreance ended up going as badly as it did, since Maya implies the spren didn't expect to die as badly as they did (or, spren die when they are killed...). I wonder though if this, in the end, doesn't work out better for the spren, allowing them to change instead of being immutable (something we may be seeing in Syl).

- 

[Jofwu he/him]

3 hours ago, Lightspine said:

I think there's one other thing you left out; BAM's capture also seems to coincide with the Sibling losing their ability to create Towerlight and falling asleep:

True! My thoughts on this are all disjointed unfortunately. Maybe I'm forgetting something that would totally upend this... But I THINK my theory on that is that the Sibling's changes are related to Honor's decline. Their changes seem to have begun BEFORE the Recreance and I don't see much time passing between BAM's capture and the Recreance. We know that Honor's decline was steady however. And I could see how Honor slowly dying would have such an effect on the Sibling.

Just an idea.

And not to say they weren't also affected by BAM's imprisonment.

[Lightspine]

26 minutes ago, Jofwu said:

True! My thoughts on this are all disjointed unfortunately. Maybe I'm forgetting something that would totally upend this... But I THINK my theory on that is that the Sibling's changes are related to Honor's decline. Their changes seem to have begun BEFORE the Recreance and I don't see much time passing between BAM's capture and the Recreance. We know that Honor's decline was steady however. And I could see how Honor slowly dying would have such an effect on the Sibling.

 

You're correct about the timeline, since the Oathbringer epigraphs (from the gem archive) include: (I'm taking these from Coppermind btw)

Quote

"My research into the cognitive reflections of the spren at the tower has been deeply illustrative. Some thought that the Sibling had withdrawn from men by intent- but I find counter to that theory."

Quote

"Something is happening to the Sibling. I agree this is true, but the division among the Knights Radiant is not to blame. Our perceived worthiness is a separate issue."

along with their planning to capture BAM:

Quote

"Ba-Ado-Mishram has somehow Connected with the parsh people, as Odium once did. She provides Voidlight and facilitates forms of power. Our strike team is going to imprison her." "We are uncertain the effects this will have on the parsh. At the very least, it should deny them forms of power. Melishi is confident, but Naze-daughter-Kuzodo warns of unintended side effects." "Surely this will bring - at long last - the end to war that the Heralds promised us."

Since the gem archive has no mention of what proceeds after capturing BAM, I think you're correct in concluding that the Sibling began withdrawal before the event, and that BAM's imprisonment was not the sole factor in this. The Sibling mentions his loss of Towerlight was specifically on the same day as BAM's capture, so it seems to have been the final straw.

Interestingly, the gem archive also talks about Melishi, who seems to be the Sibling's bondsmith and how was definitely directly involved in creating that defensive shield. I seem to remember somewhere in RoW they mention the Sibling cut off his bond with Melishi right before the Recreance? I forgot where that quote was though (please help if you remember!).

[Leuthie]

Is there any real evidence that BAM is an Unmade?

Thought: After a thousand years of Odium being imprisoned, the Singers got back a Connection that Odium was keeping from them. They used this Connection to fight against humans, so humans assumed that Odium found a new way to power his forces. In fact, it was just Roshar rehealing itself. Humans assumed the spren powering this Connection (BAM) was Odium's, an Unmade, so they trapped it to stop the threat, tearing away a piece of Roshar.

What if BAM was never Odium's at all?

[ftl]

I love all these theories about BAM.

Funny how the contest of champions feels overshadowed to me as a setup for book 5. I don't want a random fight between Dalinar and Moash or something! Let's restore all the deadeyes by releasing BAM and mass-bonding radiants to restore Honor!

[+Ptolema]

2 hours ago, Leuthie said:

Is there any real evidence that BAM is an Unmade?

Thought: After a thousand years of Odium being imprisoned, the Singers got back a Connection that Odium was keeping from them. They used this Connection to fight against humans, so humans assumed that Odium found a new way to power his forces. In fact, it was just Roshar rehealing itself. Humans assumed the spren powering this Connection (BAM) was Odium's, an Unmade, so they trapped it to stop the threat, tearing away a piece of Roshar.

What if BAM was never Odium's at all?

Since she apparently granted Voidlight, she likely was an Unmade. That said, considering how Raboniel's attempt at corrupting the Sibling by injecting Voidlight was referred to as "unmaking", I feel like this book opened up the possibility of the Unmade in general having been former important spren of Honor/Cultivation/or-a-combination, that just got forcibly turned into Odium's "Unmade".

[Realmatic Shadow]

12 hours ago, Lightspine said:

The Sibling mentions his loss of Towerlight...

12 hours ago, Lightspine said:

...the Sibling cut off his bond with Melishi...

I hate to be a pedant on this point, but I find it important to mention. The Sibling is a non-binary spren, and therefore using they/them pronouns for them would be more accurate than masculine ones (he/him).

I have somewhat of a personal stake in non-binary representation, so get overly pedantic over stuff like this, and I really don't mean to come off as rude, though I probably do.

 

[Lightspine]

2 hours ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

I hate to be a pedant on this point, but I find it important to mention. The Sibling is a non-binary spren, and therefore using they/them pronouns for them would be more accurate than masculine ones (he/him).

I have somewhat of a personal stake in non-binary representation, so get overly pedantic over stuff like this, and I really don't mean to come off as rude, though I probably do.

 

I don't think you're being rude or overly pedantic! I made a mistake and you rightfully pointed it out.

I've been trying to use they/them pronouns when referring to the Sibling but it appears that I slip to thinking of them as "him" sometimes. I've noticed that I often need to consciously remind myself to use they/them pronouns for people in real life as well. It might be because I didn't really meet any non-binary people earlier in my life. This is something that I need to work on.

Thank you for calling me out on this! I will keep trying to improve!

[Krafl]

On 19/11/2020 at 5:41 AM, Jofwu said:

The most interesting thing from that Oathbringer excerpt is Ivory's comment about the highspren. The order that "lived in death" rather than "ending in death". Curious if others have thoughts on what this might mean.

What does it mean that the highspren "live in death"? Do they still? Just the spren who were alive before the capture of BAM? What about her capture caused them to die. Why did all the other Nahel spren choose to risk "ending" rather than "living in death"?

Whatever the answer may be, I think Jasnah already knows.

What if Ba-Ado-Mishram, being the "Spren" of Roshar (at some point corrupted by Odium), granted to all spren access to the Physical Realm, without undergoing the transition during which they lose most of their awareness? It could explain why they did not exepected death: at that point their only connection with the PR was the Nahel Bond, which they broke, resulting in their "deaths".
 

[Bork]

What if all the unmade were at one time bondsmith level spren? If they hadnt been unmade, could there have been more bondsmiths? If they can somehow heal them, can there be more?

 

[Elithanathile10]

I'm curious about what would have happened if a Radiant had broken their oaths sometime between the splintering of Honor and the capture of BAM.

[Lightdancer]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:22 AM, ShalladinForever said:

In doing this, could BAM have inadvertently made herself some sort of god? 

This reminds me of what's going through Sja Anat's head. Since we keep hearing threats of "another recreance", I wonder if that means something. (My thoughts aren't very cohesive though.)