Thaidakar's Identity

[Darth_Hel]

2 hours ago, Destrus said:

@Darth_Hel  I've read Secret History, but it's been several years.  I need to go back and re-read it. 

Spoiler

Kelsier as a Cognitive Shadow does briefly take over Preservation's power but can't do much because he's not sufficiently aligned to control it.

 

[Destrus]

@Darth_Hel  I had completely forgotten that. 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

On 12/4/2020 at 2:04 AM, Ookla The Frustrated said:

She can't deal with a lot.

also this would probably have been a bigger reveal if someone *cough* @Kingsdaughter613 *cough* hadn't been human and made a mistake, not being perfect is verry inconsiderate of you.

All in all this doesn't sit well for me, not in the slightest.

What was the mistake?

[Frustration]

24 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

What was the mistake?

You said you wanted Super Carlin Brothers to read Stormlight before Mistborn so they could find out Thaidakar's identity, which tipped me off he was Scandrian, and there's only two possibilities, and I eliminated Felt pretty quickly 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

3 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

You said you wanted Super Carlin Brothers to read Stormlight before Mistborn so they could find out Thaidakar's identity, which tipped me off he was Scandrian, and there's only two possibilities, and I eliminated Felt pretty quickly 

Oh, right. I didn’t recognize you with the new name, lol.

I’m sorry about that. I had been in this forum and didn’t realize I had switched to another. There are other Scadrians around though. It could have been Spook, for example.

[Frustration]

31 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Oh, right. I didn’t recognize you with the new name, lol.

I’m sorry about that. I had been in this forum and didn’t realize I had switched to another. There are other Scadrians around though. It could have been Spook, for example.

possible, but I don't think he's alive anymore

 

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

2 minutes ago, Ookla The Frustrated said:

possible, but I don't think he's alive anymore

 

Really? Kell promised him immortality and the kid is known to have lived a rather long time.

[Clovermite]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:01 AM, Czernobog said:

3) Kelsier has already resolved his issue of Connection to Scadrial, and so now just wants a pet Herald to study how to resolve the long-term sanity issue. The southern continent Scadrian's applications of medallions show there's already a very firm grasp of Connection, so this conclusion feels most likely. Thaidakar is Kelsier, and Kelsier has world hopped at least once (and Hoid saw him there).

I'm a fan of this theory. The fact that "The Sovereign" left the bands of mourning lying around, and seems not to have re-established contact with Northern Scadrial suggests to me that Kelsier is no longer on the planet. At the very least, I think Mr "There's always another secret" would want to see Silverlight, having met Khriss and Nazh, let alone another planet. I think he probably chose some other planet to take over, becoming heavily invested in whatever magic system that particular planet uses.

On the note of heavy investure, I've also heard someone, can't remember who, speculate that Kelsier picked up the ambition shard somehow. I don't have anything in the text to back it up, but I really like that theory. Having figured out how to get a body, I can totally see Kelsier setting his sights on regaining shardhood, and Ambition does seem like the shard most suited to him.

[coolsnow7]

7 hours ago, Clovermite said:

I'm a fan of this theory. The fact that "The Sovereign" left the bands of mourning lying around, and seems not to have re-established contact with Northern Scadrial suggests to me that Kelsier is no longer on the planet. At the very least, I think Mr "There's always another secret" would want to see Silverlight, having met Khriss and Nazh, let alone another planet. I think he probably chose some other planet to take over, becoming heavily invested in whatever magic system that particular planet uses.

On the note of heavy investure, I've also heard someone, can't remember who, speculate that Kelsier picked up the ambition shard somehow. I don't have anything in the text to back it up, but I really like that theory. Having figured out how to get a body, I can totally see Kelsier setting his sights on regaining shardhood, and Ambition does seem like the shard most suited to him.

I particularly like the theory because of this bit about only showing up via Avatar.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

11 hours ago, Clovermite said:

I'm a fan of this theory. The fact that "The Sovereign" left the bands of mourning lying around, and seems not to have re-established contact with Northern Scadrial suggests to me that Kelsier is no longer on the planet. At the very least, I think Mr "There's always another secret" would want to see Silverlight, having met Khriss and Nazh, let alone another planet. I think he probably chose some other planet to take over, becoming heavily invested in whatever magic system that particular planet uses.

On the note of heavy investure, I've also heard someone, can't remember who, speculate that Kelsier picked up the ambition shard somehow. I don't have anything in the text to back it up, but I really like that theory. Having figured out how to get a body, I can totally see Kelsier setting his sights on regaining shardhood, and Ambition does seem like the shard most suited to him.

Unfortunately, we have a WoB that indicates otherwise. And Kell has been seen on North Scadrial supposedly.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

20 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

And Kell has been seen on North Scadrial supposedly

when?

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

21 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

when?

According to comments made in Alloy. Supposedly people have been visited by the Survivor. There’s no evidence for or against though. 
 

WoB is that he hasn’t gotten offworld yet, though.

[Stormtide_Leviathan]

13 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Supposedly people have been visited by the Survivor. There’s no evidence for or against though.

It's certainly a possibility, and that does seem like a set up for something like this, but I don't think we can say for sure considering there's the possibility a kandra is using his bones or something

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

1 hour ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

It's certainly a possibility, and that does seem like a set up for something like this, but I don't think we can say for sure considering there's the possibility a kandra is using his bones or something

I think it was actually to set up that he was still wandering around...

[Lupis]

I am on the side of it definitely is Kel. Even the name "Ghostbloods" screams cognitive shadows+hemalurgy to me.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Lupis

[Wolfbeckett]

17 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

WoB is that he hasn’t gotten offworld yet, though.

We all need to remember though that WoB is not necessarily 100% canon.  It's not canon until it's in the books.  There is every chance that at the time of that particular WoB Brandon hadn't fully fleshed out the Thaidakar = Kelsier plan and that as he did develop it he realize Kel needs to be a worldhopper for it to work so he's changed his mind.

[Aspiring Writer]

Lord of Scars fits Kell's scars, Slapping around fits with Hoid in SH, Hoid clearly does not like Kell as confirmed by Wobs, and It's clear in Mistborn Era two that he has become fairly Cosmere aware (The symbols in the temple appear to be Aons). The theory fits very well.

[Aspiring Writer]

3 hours ago, Wolfbeckett said:

We all need to remember though that WoB is not necessarily 100% canon.  It's not canon until it's in the books.  There is every chance that at the time of that particular WoB Brandon hadn't fully fleshed out the Thaidakar = Kelsier plan and that as he did develop it he realize Kel needs to be a worldhopper for it to work so he's changed his mind.

Yes, but but until we find anything to contradict the WoB, we should try and accept it's fact when making theories, and currently nothing says Kell can't lead the Ghostbloods while being stuck on Scadrial.

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

Just something interesting to add to this discussion: 

(WoA annotations)

‘In book one, Vin learned to trust–and she learned one of Kelsier’s prime beliefs. That it’s better to trust, and be betrayed, than to always worry about everyone around you.’

This is a rather important part of Kell’s personality and something we should keep in mind.

[Knight of Iron she/they]

The livestream is still going on, and the WOBs are probably a few days incoming before I can quote it properly.

But Brandon mentions that "we have seen the lengths Thaidakar would go to to achieve his goals in other books."

Does anyone who still doesn't believe it's Kelsier have anything to say about this?

[spitfireky she/her]

Just now, Knight of Iron said:

The livestream is still going on, and the WOBs are probably a few days incoming before I can quote it properly.

But Brandon mentions that "we have seen the lengths Thaidakar would go to to achieve his goals in other books."

Does anyone who still doesn't believe it's Kelsier have anything to say about this?

I wasn't fully paying attention to the livestream until he said this and I dropped my phone

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

35 minutes ago, spitfireky said:

I wasn't fully paying attention to the livestream until he said this and I dropped my phone

He basically confirmed it before we even started. He said that we should be careful to refer to characters by their SA names and specifically mentioned Thaidakar. 

[spitfireky she/her]

Just now, Kingsdaughter613 said:

He basically confirmed it before we even started. He said that we should be careful to refer to characters by their SA names and specifically mentioned Thaidakar. 

I saw that everyone's comments referring to it were being deleted but I didn't make the connection until he said that haha

[Kingsdaughter613 she/her]

28 minutes ago, spitfireky said:

I saw that everyone's comments referring to it were being deleted but I didn't make the connection until he said that haha

It made asking questions a fun dance, lol! I just inserted Thaidakar into any question where I would have said Kelsier. Not that it mattered, as those weren’t asked. I may have to wait for the Alloy Leatherbound to ask. Though my husband suggested sending him a letter with my tarot cards. 

I REALLY want to know when Thaidakar became Kelsier. Because I don’t see how that could have been the plan in WoK.

[TheDomanreiter he/him]

On 11/19/2020 at 0:29 AM, ALAKA said:

The evidence is growing overwhelming. But it still sits badly with me.

Kelsier, in all the Mistborn books was "broadly" a dashing rogue type character on the side of the good guys. It's odd that he's now running an organisation that kills innocent bystanders in cold blood. Remember those porters in WoR? The Ghostbloods are horrible people.

Even if from a psychological point of view this can happen (he is a megalomaniac after all), it leaves a bad taste for a hero to just pop up somewhere else as a villain. Would Brandon do that?

Yes. Kelsier is a great character, but you can't say he's never cruel.

Take, for example, when he attacks the Nobility in The Final Empire. The entire time, he's constantly telling himself he hates those mistings, and that they deserve to die. He slaughters people throughout his mortal life. His crew was nicer than he was. He was, if you really come to think about it, not that nice of a guy. Especially in Secret History. He's really just a grump the whole time. I don't doubt Kelsier to be capable of starting the Ghostbloods, but I do think we may learn that his intentions weren't so selfish or cruel.