Destrus

It may not be the exact methodology, but we do know that you can take a Seon off world now. I would figure the same process will work for Spren.

@Darth_Hel I had completely forgotten that.

@Darth_Hel I've read Secret History, but it's been several years. I need to go back and re-read it.

So, while I was reading through this, I'm trying to figure what Kelsier's end game would be, if he were Thaidakar. And the question I'm asking myself is "would a cognitive shadow be able to touch a Shard and Ascend? ie. Could a Cognitive Shadow become a Vessel?"

@Darth_Hel I see your point. I need to go back and brush up on my Mistborn soon. I know we're getting Book 7 sometime in the next 12-18 months, so it's about time to start a re-read coming up in the summer.

@bloodlust Yeah, I finished RoW on Friday. We got 4 names dropped in the Harmony letter. It appears that we are still missing 2 unnamed Shards.

Pay close attention to the Epilogue. Brandon talks about subversion and misdirection specifically as it relates to storytelling. He already kind of did that with Taravagian/Odium. I think the Kelsier hints are more misdirection. I also think Kelsier could be a threat off world to the Ghostbloods and that Mraize could be/is trying to potentially set the organization’s enemies (Shallan and Kelsier) at odds with each other for the mutual benefit of the GB. if the GB are operating on Scadrial, then it is as likely that Kelsier could be in opposition to them as leading them.

I agree. We see a seon in the closing chapters. And this finally feels like the book where Brandon has said “if you haven’t read the other books by now, this is going to start getting confusing”. I remember reading recently, cannot remember where, that the Sleepless are clearly non Rosharan entities. I would think it opens the door to them being tied to other groups, like The Set for example. But I’m not sure that The Set and Ghostbloods aren’t the same organization.

Okay, I might just be dense, but are we supposed to recognize Axindweth? I get a feeling that the multiple rings is a clue to their identity, but am I just overlooking who this is? Also, is Axindweth the Ghostblood that Mraize reports to? The one between Mraize and Thaikadar... because in Ch 115 Mraize says “can you handle my master? Can you handle HER master?” Is this a quick insight into the Ghostblood hierarchy. Does anybody have any ideas on where the Sleepless are from? Obviously, they’re non Rosharan. Are they a separate organization from the Ghostbloods (I don’t think they’re GB affiliates). Are they potentially connected to The 17th Shard organization? Preventing access to Aimia to help prevent access to the powers contained there (seems pretty non interventionist at its heart)? Last question, why all the Nalthis connections in this book? Yes we saw Vasher and Vivenna in previous books but MORE Nalthans in Shadesmar traveling in caravans. And Wit is using Breaths to store his excess memories.

Seriously though, wouldn’t Kelsier being Thaidakar be a little bit of a heel turn? I don’t feel like the Ghostbloods are in any way “good guys”. I’m just struggling with seeing Kelsier as a villain in the greater Cosmere.

Yes, exactly. When Taravangian Ascends he specifically mentions that hate. It is the overriding “Passion” of Odium. That’s made explicitly clear.

I think Valor, Invention, Ingenuity, and possibly Cultivation shards could be combined. I think there are several combinations that could work. Sazed has the problem that he grabbed the two Shards that are most diametrically opposed to each other. Preservation and Ruin are complete opposites. Honor and Cultivation got along just fine (apparently) before Odium shattered Honor.

The confusion for me came from Epigraph 29 where Harmony says they are seeking the ideal person to act on their behalf. Who embodies both Preservation and Ruin. This is what threw me off track. But yes. I’m on Chapter 36 now. I see what you mean. my other questions about combining complimentary Shards still stands Would that Vessel be stronger than Odium potentially by holding multiple Shards? Obviously, Sazed has spelled out Odium’s endgame plan.

Beltway, it’s in Part 2 of Rhythm Of War if you read between the lines.

I am up to chapter 30, so please no spoilers for the last 2/3 of Rhythm Of War but So now there are apparently TWO Vessels which hold more than one Shard? This one must be the holder of the last two that aren’t named yet. And they deal with hold opposing forces just like Harmony. based on the commentary that they find themselves unable to act because of the conflicting nature of their Shards, is it even possible to get a Third and Fourth and Fifth Ascension? Odium seems content to destroy and disperse Vessel/Shard powers, so are these holders of Two, Harmony and the new one, stronger than Odium? What if one picked up complimentary Shard? Would power amplify? Like Preservation/Cultivation, Cultivation/Autonomy, Valor/Honor, Ruin/Dominion? (Yes I know some of those are dead/splintered)

If there is a “Unmaking Dawnshard” then it would make sense that it ruled over Odium and Ruin and two others. I am thinking the 4 “quadrants of Asonalsium” will be connected and similar Shards in same grouping. Like Preservation and Cultivation. Maybe those specific Dawnshards have power over the specific Shards in their groupings.

Isn't the statement in Dawnshard that there are 4 Commands? I felt that it was implied that the Four Commands gave Adonalsium the power of "godhood" and those same Four Commands were used to unmake Adonalsium. It also strongly implied that each Shard is in a group of for that ties to a command. Four groups of four. And it seems that the time Dawnshard is the ability to Make/Remake. So Cultivation goes there, right? Endowment as well perhaps?

I think the Fourth Oath is going to be something to the effect of: “I will protect those who mean me harm, as long as it is right.” And be related to Moash/Vyre or possibly “I will protect myself, because I cannot protect others without protecting myself” and have it tied to his inability to come to terms with his depression and his demotion

I found another version of it. I got Elsecaller as well....and with the explanation, I can see it.

There apparently is an error with that page I keep getting a WP-Coder id="1" error Now I'll never know which order I truly belong in!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Solid questions. I really dig the era 2 Mistborn Magics when they add the Allomancy and Ferumancy together. That’s probably my favorite magic system to see the hybrid Magics. Favorite Cosmere novel is either The Hero Of Ages or Words Of Radiance....though the first part of Rhythm Of War is a banger. I would love to say I am a Windrunner....but I feel I am probably a Bondsmith. I love Kaladin, but feel more connected ultimately to Dalinar.

Without getting 'spoilery', I don't know that I would consider him a minor character looking at the beginnings of his arc in RoW. He's a supporting character, sure, but he has much more screen time than....say Renarin for a counterpoint. I think Adolin has the potential to be like a Sazed type character. There, not a major character who is at the forefront of the narrative, but still accomplishes some major things.

Oooooooooh, that's a tough question in terms of who I would be friends with. Legitimately, would probably be Sazed , Vasher, or Wayne. Sazed appeals to the philosophic and research based sides of me. Sazed is the kind of guy you would go digging through the sacred texts looking for clues about Shards and Ascension and Adonalsium. I would think that many of us here are like Sazed in our search for the 'story behind the story'. Vasher is the character that I think most fits how I would deal with the circumstances that were thrust upon him. If I had been through the things Vasher had been through, I could see myself on a virtually identical trajectory (even into his departure from Nalthis). And Wayne, who doesn't want to be friends with Wayne? You need a friend who is loyal and dedicated and keeps it light when there needs to be a tension breaker.

I had read these, regarding Ingenuity and Prudence. I was more wondering if he was planning to make series around groupings of the remaining Shards or if he’s working them in as crossover novels. I would figure that Dragonsteel would features all the shards at the end as well as the Vessels ascending... since my understanding is that it will be the book where they kill Adonalsium. @Eternal Khol i tend to agree with you. I don’t think we will have 9 Shards all appearing in RoW.

Huge WoT fan. Favorite Overall book in WoT was Lord Of Chaos and followed closely by The Shadow Rising. Love The Dresden Files. Grew up reading Stephen King. Fave from SK is The Stand. Also really adore the Piers Anthony Incarnations Of Immortality Series.