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Mid-Range Game 46: A Broken Imperium

Mat

By Mat
in Sanderson Elimination

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|TJ|

|TJ|

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Condensation said:

Is there anyone that can confirm this? I trust Quinn and Gears over you. Quinn hinted about Gears being TLR to me earlier(although I didn't get it) and this seems suspicious to me.

Why is it suspicious? If you believe Gears, then you'd believe his scan on me? Think about it, why would he claim to Quinn, whose alignment he didn't know, and not claim to me, whose alignment he apparently did? 

Y'all lynched Reading to give us info about Gears. Reading wasn't TLR and he wasn't a WGG'd elim. That means, as clear as a day, Gears was roleblocked. 

Are we really considering that an elim!role-blocker blocked elim killer to frame someone more than the simple fact that Gears is an elim whose kill was blocked and is now lying to get out of the lynch?

Like the fact that elim!roleblocker would block elim kill is more farfetched than a WGG because we didn't even know that roleblock would show as "attacked but survived" in C1, and I don't know why elims would know any different as Mat didn't mention it anywhere else, and role-blocks never showed the message in previous games, so the elims would have no reason to believe that role-blocking the elim kill would show the message. Besides, what's the point? To frame a villager at the expense of a kill? When they could have easily gotten mislynches as it was just C2, and not waste an elim kill. Why would they choose Gears to frame, a player who always dies very early in the game? 

Pretty sure they plan to kill me this cycle, so they'd clear me here and then submit the kill so when I flip village, Gears would get trusted. 

People in PM with Gears, do look out of the scope of PMs as it's very easy to get manipulated in PMs. It's quite clear from all the info that we have in the thread that he was the one who submitted the role-blocked elim kill. I really hope TLR who scanned Ash trusts someone to claim to them.

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Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Why is it suspicious? If you believe Gears, then you'd believe his scan on me? Think about it, why would he claim to Quinn, whose alignment he didn't know, and not claim to me, whose alignment he apparently did? 

Y'all lynched Reading to give us info about Gears. Reading wasn't TLR and he wasn't a WGG'd elim. That means, as clear as a day, Gears was roleblocked. 

Are we really considering that an elim!role-blocker blocked elim killer to frame someone more than the simple fact that Gears is an elim whose kill was blocked and is now lying to get out of the lynch?

Like the fact that elim!roleblocker would block elim kill is more farfetched than a WGG because we didn't even know that roleblock would show as "attacked but survived" in C1, and I don't know why elims would know any different as Mat didn't mention it anywhere else, and role-blocks never showed the message in previous games, so the elims would have no reason to believe that role-blocking the elim kill would show the message. Besides, what's the point? To frame a villager at the expense of a kill? When they could have easily gotten mislynches as it was just C2, and not waste an elim kill. Why would they choose Gears to frame, a player who always dies very early in the game? 

Pretty sure they plan to kill me this cycle, so they'd clear me here and then submit the kill so when I flip village, Gears would get trusted. 

People in PM with Gears, do look out of the scope of PMs as it's very easy to get manipulated in PMs. It's quite clear from all the info that we have in the thread that he was the one who submitted the role-blocked elim kill. I really hope TLR who scanned Ash trusts someone to claim to them.

You're mixing up the timing, first of all. As I just told you in our PM, Gears claimed to me before he scanned you, and it was actually my idea to scan you at all.

Also they never did frame Gears, they framed Reading. If anyone "framed Gears" it was me, because I was the one who RBd him and then started the chain.

And it isn't just for reasons in PMs that I find it hard to see Gears as elim. The RB chain about him spread widely enough that the elims must have known about it, but they never did anything to stop/counter it. Neither did he, and he stopped the only counter-chain that could have deflected suspicion from him. And when he claimed TLR to me last cycle, he told me he hadn't scanned the cycle before even though he was technically allowed to--which is a very non-elim thing to say, if you think about it. An elim probably would have just said "I scanned you, I know you're village."

Edit: Oh, yeah, and Ash didn't trust you apparently. He messaged me just before rollover last cycle asking me to look into you if he died. For the moment I guess I'm trusting Gears, so I'm trusting that you aren't elim, but the point is that Ash likely was lying to you about TLR scanning him. He certainly never told me anything like that. 

Edited by Quinn0928
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Posted
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11 hours ago, TJ Shade said:

Also, I'd imagine you'd want to contact me as soon as you had scanned me to build a village trust. You haven't done so, as it is the first time I'm hearing you have scanned me. You're lying to escape the lynch again. 

Timeline: C1: I aligned with the village. C2: I could have submitted a scan but forgot because school is awful. C3: I submitted the scan on you at Quinn's behest. C4 [now]: I got the scan, told Quinn, and thought telling the thread would be more productive than telling you then the thread, since I was going to claim in any case. This would be the first you'd hear of it anyways. My apologies for not reaching out. 

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Posted
Posted (edited)

Hmmm, I still don't see a case where an elim roleblocker blocks an elim kill, and the main thing that set off my bells is you clearing me, which is what elims always do before killing me off, but now apparently the choice was Quinn's so.. I'll wait for a counterclaim. If there isn't one, then I'll think about it.  

EDIT:

7 minutes ago, Ventyl said:

I think we lynch Gears, it’s probably the best lynch we have right now. Because, if he is telling the truth, then it’s fine, he’ll survive our lynch. And if he’s lying then we kill an elim, then we lynch Quinn next.

Ventyl, this is super suspicious. You do know he'll survive the lynch as he could be Spiked right?

Edited by TJ Shade
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27 minutes ago, TJ Shade said:

Hmmm, I still don't see a case where an elim roleblocker blocks an elim kill, and the main thing that set off my bells is you clearing me, which is what elims always do before killing me off, but now apparently the choice was Quinn's so.. I'll wait for a counterclaim. If there isn't one, then I'll think about it.  

EDIT:

Ventyl, this is super suspicious. You do know he'll survive the lynch as he could be Spiked right?

I’m aware that it’s suspicious, and no I wasn’t thinking about that...

29 minutes ago, Quinn0928 said:

Why would we lynch me? 

Either you’re being pocketed, or you and Gears are both elims trying to make some gambit.

EDIT:

Of course, I could be wrong and Gears is the Lord Ruler. In that case, I’d be less suspicious of both of you.

Edited by Ventyl
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danex

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Posted
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19 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

Well, Reading was an obligator, so this cycle we lynch Gears

Also, somehow Ash knew he would be targeted. He messaged me just before rollover and asked me to look into something for him if he died.

 

17 hours ago, Quinn0928 said:

I would guess so? I mean, I am. 

Also, I guess Gears for now, though it was my scheme (and before that, my PM-chain) that implicated him in the first place and I have a hard time imagining how Reading survived that kill C1 unless Gears is an elim... But it's true that I read him very strong village.

Basically I've been super confused about everything this whole game, and also I claimed to like three different people and have been assuming at least one of them was elim because there's no way I'm that lucky. But two of them--Ash and Reading--are dead now, and the third--Gears--is... well, I have no idea what he is.


I’m so confused. This is incredibly contradictory, way more than Turtle’s weirdness was, and we almost unanimously lynched them for that. 

Quinn didn’t gain any new information between these two posts. Why would you change your vote?? And what are the odds of there being 3 Roleblockers? Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the scenario where Gears is village, there has to be three right?

1. Quinn. Claimed to Connie. Started chain. Roleblocked Village!Gears who didn’t submit an action. 
2. Unknown. Claimed to Connie. Didn’t submit action. 
3. Unknown. Roleblocked Unknown Elim who targeted Reading. 

Edited by Danex
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Posted
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2 minutes ago, Danex said:

I’m so confused. This is incredibly contradictory, way more than Turtle’s weirdness was, and we almost unanimously lynched them for that. 

Quinn didn’t gain any new information between these two posts. Why would you change your vote?? And what are the odds of there being 3 Roleblockers? Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the scenario where Gears is village, there has to be three right?

1. Quinn. Claimed to Connie. Started chain. Roleblocked Village!Gears who didn’t submit an action. 
2. Unknown. Claimed to Connie. Didn’t submit action. 
3. Unknown. Roleblocked Unknown Elim who targeted Reading. 

I actually did gain new information, Danex: I learned that there were other people also willing to believe that Gears might be village. Before that I wasn't sure I trusted my own judgement/reads on Gears but since I'm not the only one, I'm more inclined to think I'm right.

And yes, you're correct, if Gears isn't elim, there must be three RBers.

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Condensation

Condensation

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Danex said:

I’m so confused. This is incredibly contradictory, way more than Turtle’s weirdness was, and we almost unanimously lynched them for that. 

Quinn didn’t gain any new information between these two posts. Why would you change your vote?? And what are the odds of there being 3 Roleblockers? Correct me if I’m wrong, but in the scenario where Gears is village, there has to be three right?

1. Quinn. Claimed to Connie. Started chain. Roleblocked Village!Gears who didn’t submit an action. 
2. Unknown. Claimed to Connie. Didn’t submit action. 
3. Unknown. Roleblocked Unknown Elim who targeted Reading. 

I agree, that does seem kind of farfetched. I suppose the third one could just be practicing PM safety a little more, but I don't know.

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Posted
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19 hours ago, Gears said:

In order to preserve my worthless life, I'm coming clean. I am the Lord Ruler.

Why would you claim this in the thread? If you are Village-aligned, you made yourself into a target. You could have just PM'd individual people and claimed. Like maybe the ones voting on you or just enough to get another wagon going with more votes.

Regardless, the situation is as it is now. So we should allow Gears to live for today. The Elims will attack him tonight anyway if he's really a Village-aligned TLR.

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2 hours ago, Ghanderflaffle said:

I’m kinda thinking this is an elim plot by Gears and Quinn, but at the same time nobody else has claimed TLR.

What kind of elim plot? The kind where I claim in PMs that I've RBd Gears, then pass the chain on to accuse them, then we don't start a counter-chain, then I post on the discussion board proposing that maybe one elim RBd another, then we post on the board, publicly, that I've RBd Gears? I feel like that's a little bit insane from an elim standpoint, y'know?

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Condensation

Condensation

Posted
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Just now, Quinn0928 said:

lol I'm literally only on 17th Shard for SE so that's not a problem for me... anyway, I was following the thread but I had my notifications set so that it didn't send me a notification if someone posted... So like... :rolleyes: that was so smart of me

You should join some RPs! I know a lot of fun ones.

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danex

danex

Posted
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43 minutes ago, Whysper said:

Regardless, the situation is as it is now. So we should allow Gears to live for today. The Elims will attack him tonight anyway if he's really a Village-aligned TLR.

I made that same argument about Connie being a Hem in LG71, remember? The Elims might purposely attack someone else because they know they can get a free mislynch by doing so. 

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Danex said:

I made that same argument about Connie being a Hem in LG71, remember? The Elims might purposely attack someone else because they know they can get a free mislynch by doing so. 

Conversely, if he's an elim and spiked, then they might attack him to give him credibility.

Edit: Though I acknowledge that that's riskier for them and thus a less likely outcome.

Edited by Quinn0928
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