Shallan's Origin Story

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 12.10.2020 at 6:52 PM, Wyndleblade said:

Lets say she has royal locks. I see only three options:

Then her brothers must have them, too. No evidence of that.

 

 

[Halyo_Alex he/him]

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Then her brothers must have them, too. No evidence of that.

 

 

A Returned's appearance is heavily dependent on self-perception, and presumably the Royal Locks as well. If her brothers have no reason to believe their hair can change color, then it wouldn't.

[+Oltux72 he/him]

12 hours ago, Halyo_Alex said:

A Returned's appearance is heavily dependent on self-perception, and presumably the Royal Locks as well. If her brothers have no reason to believe their hair can change color, then it wouldn't.

The Royal Locks react to emotion, hence involuntary reactions.

[+robardin he/him]

5 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

The Royal Locks react to emotion, hence involuntary reactions.

And it's not necessarily linked to being a Returned per se. Spoiler for ending of Warbreaker,

Spoiler

Of the two Returned that we see physically die in Warbreaker (other than Lightsong turning completely white from giving up his Divine Breath), Denth's hair changes colors ending in "terror", but Blushweaver just bleeds out.

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by robardin

[JoyBlu she/her]

Recently read this and it reminded me of a thread (maybe it was this one?)

from Oathbringer 

Quote

“I was suspicious when Veil … when you told me to go on this mission,” she said. “Then I saw the illusions, and guessed.” She paused. “I had it reversed. I thought Brightness Shallan was the persona. But the spy—that’s the false identity.” “Wrong,” Shallan said. “They’re both equally false.”

So this quote implies that the “Real” Shallan is false. That there is something more (mystery Mraize is keeping)

 

there is also this 

Quote

Shallan took a deep breath. Then changed her face. Not to that of Veil or Radiant—not one of her secrets—but instead to an illusion of Adolin.

There is always another secret!

[Dark_Sun77]

10 hours ago, JoyBlu said:

Recently read this and it reminded me of a thread (maybe it was this one?)

from Oathbringer 

So this quote implies that the “Real” Shallan is false. That there is something more (mystery Mraize is keeping)

 

there is also this 

There is always another secret!

Great add!

[JoyBlu she/her]

Ok, I found another interesting quote from Shallan while rereading Oathbringer. 
 

pg 733

Quote

In that moment, these people seemed like strange beasts, beyond her understanding. Sometimes she felt like a thing wearing a human skin. She was that thing in Urithiru, the Unmade, who sent out puppets to feign humanity.

So is Shallan human? What thing is she?

[ftl]

That one, I think, is more metaphorical than literally. She feels like she's always acting. "Shallan" is a persona, "Veil" is a persona, "Radiant" is a persona. Shallan is only pretending to be a functional human being, sending out fake puppets into the world while she herself is whatever is hiding inside them.

I think literally speaking, Shallan is a normal human, the daughter of Lin and (unnamed mother Davar). Mentally, she feels like the persona she projects to the world is entirely fake/pretend.

[JoyBlu she/her]

So I’m going to add a few more quotes that I recently read in OB about Shallan. I find it interesting that Wit calls her by the name Shallan. (See last quote)
 

@ftl I agree with you that Shallan is probably human but the way those were written I wonder what experiences she had that we don’t know about yet that made her feel inhuman. 
  
Here are some quotes from OB

pg 768

Quote

“Nice,” she said. “But you forgot to do the back of the head, the part not in the drawing.” “What?” Vathah asked, frowning. She showed him the hand mirror. “Why’d you put his face on me?” “I didn’t,” Veil said, standing. “You panicked and this happened.” Vathah prodded at his face, still looking in the mirror, confused.
 

“I’ll bet the first few times are always accidents,” Veil said.

I hope we get to hear about Shallan’s first few times. 

 

pg 764

Quote

The enemy knew what she looked like. Should she have created a new persona, a false face, to not expose Veil? But Veil is a false face, a part of her said. You could always abandon her. She strangled that part of her, smothered it deep. Veil was too real, too vital, to abandon. Shallan would be easier.

Since we met Shallan first, I assumed it was her primary persona. But if Shallan would be easier to abandon than Veil, then I am obviously missing something. But then again this is Veil thinking. 
 

pg 772

Quote

A heart. It beat an irregular rhythm, bum-ba-ba-bum instead of the common ba-bum of her own heartbeat. Give in. Join the revel. Shallan, listen to me. She shook herself. That last voice had been different. She’d heard it before, hadn’t she? She looked to the side, and found her shadow on the ground, pointed the wrong way, toward the moonlight instead of away from it. The shadow crept up the wall, with eyes that were white holes, glowing faintly. I’m not your enemy. But the heart is a trap. Take caution.

The voice (unmade) called her Shallan. While she was Veil. And it was a familiar voice. 
Pg 787

Quote

They left her with those hundred faces, in silence, until her Stormlight died off. That left only Shallan. Unfortunately.

Without Stormlight she is Shallan. So does that mean the other personas that require Stormlight are not real?

I don’t remember if Shallan is always Shallan in Shadesmear. I’ll have to watch for that. Does anyone else know?

Quote

Forgiveness. For herself. She gasped, pulling her finger back as if it had been bitten. “It’s terrible,” Wit said, stepping up beside her, “to have been hurt. It’s unfair, and awful, and horrid. But Shallan … it’s okay to live on.” She shook her head. “Your other minds take over,” he whispered, “because they look so much more appealing. You’ll never control them until you’re confident in returning to the one who birthed them. Until you accept being you.” “Then I’ll never control it.” She blinked tears. “No,” Wit said. He nodded toward the version of her still standing up.
 

“You will, Shallan. If you do not trust yourself, can you trust me? For in you, I see a woman more wonderful than any of the lies. I promise you, that woman is worth protecting. You are worth protecting.”

 

She nodded toward the illusion of herself still standing. “I can’t be her. She’s just another fabrication.” Both illusions vanished. “I see only one woman here,” Wit said. “And it’s the one who is standing up. Shallan, that has always been you. You just have to admit it. Allow it.” He whispered to her. “It’s all right to hurt.” He picked up his pack, then unfolded something from inside it. Veil’s hat. He pressed the hat into her palm. Shockingly, morning light was shining in the doorway. Had she been here all night, huddled in this hole of a room? “Wit?” she asked. “I … I can’t do it.” He smiled. “There are certain things I know, Shallan. This is one of them. You can. Find the balance. Accept the pain, but don’t accept that you deserved it.” Pattern hummed in appreciation of that. But, it wasn’t as easy as Wit said. She took in a breath, and felt … a shiver run through her. Wit collected his things, pack over his shoulder. He smiled, then stepped out into the light.

Wit explicitly says Shallan is worth protecting. I believe that there is something special about Shallan that we don’t know about yet. I’m excited to read and find out what!!!!

[RShara she/her]

On 10/9/2020 at 10:48 PM, JoyBlu said:

@Darksun

I asked Brandon if she was the biological child of her Father. He said yes. Here is the WoB. I should have been more specific and asked about her mother as well. 

Skyward release party (Nov. 6, 2018)
#37

JoyBlu

Can you confirm that Shallan is the biological child of her dad, Lin Davar?

Brandon Sanderson

*evil laugh* Should I confirm that? Yeah, I'll confirm that, she is.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/367/#e11634

Hey, Joy! FYI, Brandon has confirmed that Shallan's parents as presented are her biological parents.

Quote

Questioner

Is Shallan's mother, the one that she kills, is that her birth mother?

Brandon Sanderson

It is.  Good question. Good question.  You had a theory there that I may have just killed.

Questioner

That's okay!

Words of Radiance Omaha signing (March 13, 2014)

Quote

Questioner

Is Shallan's father her actual father?

Brandon Sanderson

Ah! People asked if her mother were her mother. No one's asked yet if her father were her father... Yes, it was her father. Yes, I will give you that, yes. Her mother and father as presented in the stories were actually her mother and father.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

 

[JoyBlu she/her]

@RShara

Hello! I’m bummed that I won’t see you at the RoW release party! I love seeing all the costumes and meeting the people (like yourself). I guess that means we get extra time to plan our costumes for the next event! If it were not for the Governors order I would suggest we all meet someone to have our own little party but maybe we could do something like that another time. 
 

Thank you so much for the information on Shallan’s mother. I can’t believe that question was asked in 2014 and I hadn’t seen the WOB on it yet. 
 

I do think that there is something interesting and important about Shallan’s heritage that will be revealed eventually. I really wasn’t expecting a lot of Shallan’s past to come up in RoW but it is looking like we will learn more about her past. 
 

I still think that Kaladins’s mom, Hesina, is a descendant of Wit/Hoid. (Thanks @Mason Wheeler  for pointing that out). 
 

I’m guessing that Kaladin’s & Shallan’s ancestors were somehow involved in the past with something important with Spren/Singers, etc. perhaps the fused interacted with some of them in the past. 

[Mason Wheeler]

14 minutes ago, JoyBlu said:

I still think that Kaladins’s mom, Hesina, is a descendant of Wit/Hoid. (Thanks @Mason Wheeler  for pointing that out). 

Yeah, this is my personal Kaladin theory.  Brandon has said that Hoid has had many love throughout over the ages.  It's quite possible that he's got descendants running around on the various Shardworlds, and he ends up interacting with them from time to time.  And far too much of the stuff he says in his Wit persona on Roshar has some deeper meaning.  So when he says to Kaladin that he has some wit in him... I take that literally.

I asked Brandon about this but he RAFO'd it.