Laral + Kaladin

[Bigmikey357 he/him]

Aren't all Kaladin's relationships with women start off antagonistic?  He was annoyed by Syl, he argued vociferously with both Shallan and Jasnah,  he insults Lyn, and him and Laral have baggage.  I guess Tarah is the only girl he had a relationship with that didn't involve an initial wrong foot move, though with Kaladin we cannot be sure. For all we know he stepped on her foot on his way to bribe another squad leader and she threw a rock at his head in retaliation. 

[+Oltux72 he/him]

On 29/07/2020 at 8:46 PM, robardin said:

This is not so much a question about Kaladin + Laral (Laradin? Kalaral?), so much as about Laral herself on her own. For all the talk about what Order Lirin or Hesina might best be matched with, it's Laral I've got my eye on as a potential Radiant.

I am afraid I need to point out that we are about to see a shortage of spren. And she is not the protective type. She goes for high risk, high reward.
 Elsecaller, Dustbringer, but no Windrunner.

On 29/07/2020 at 8:46 PM, robardin said:

What we see of her in singer-controlled Hearthstone early in RoW is pretty interesting. She's as strong willed, determined, and self-possessed as a water carrier as she was as the lady of the manor in Oathbringer when Kaladin first returned to Hearthstone. She's enough of an underground leader type to be in cahoots with Lirin (and evidently, Dalinar and Co.) about using Hearthstone as a staging area to extract the Herdazian general.

Do we know who is the active part in this, Laral or Roshone?

On 29/07/2020 at 8:46 PM, robardin said:

It's also interesting how the Fused have allowed humans to continue living and working in communities like Hearthstone, when the Fused have a stated goal of wiping out humankind from Roshar, even with a war still going on for control.

While you are running a war, you have to keep your production base working. They need to eat and spears do not make themselves.

9 hours ago, dgreene196 said:

I'm not sure that a lighteyes in the chain of command who (at one point) had a spanreed directly to the Queen's ardent, as well as has been in communication with a key member of the military is necessarily a random aristocrat.

Again. The Roshone household has such a connection. Roshone himself once had the ear of the king. You are attributingm to Laral personally what is not necessarily hers. Did her father have one?

9 hours ago, dgreene196 said:

 Plus, Hearthstone is the first attempt by the coalition forces to rescue an entire village from conquered territory (or reconquered territory, rather).  They may prefer to keep them together under a leader they know, with Laral reporting to Jasnah or some other underling.

That is exactly why you cannot allow that. You'd set a precedent for hundrous of little aristocrats building power bases in Urithiru. Worse you'd have somebody from Sadeas in command of parts of Urithiru. Plus it would look like the best way to get an office in Urithiru would be to have light eyes and to be a childhood buddy of Kaladin's.

[StormlightFan23]

I think Laral + Kaladin will be at least soundly explored.  There is no way to avoid it when they are both in Urithiru!  I am not thinking it will be the end all for Kaladin, but I can see romantic feelings, and flirting, and also I think she can help him get past Tien, because don't forget she was friends with Tien too.  (She wasn't the one who sent Tien to die, and she had no choice in marrying Roshone.  I think she is help unfairly accountable for that.)

I also think Adolin and Laral would get along well, and I would love to see some of the brotherly Kaladin and Adolin bromance with some Laral sass thrown in!  And in all seriousness, I think Shallan and Laral could be good friends... Shallan could use a girlfriend.  Ok, now I'm convincing myself the happily off into the sunset carriage ride WILL happen

[Master Silver]

Roshone is dead dead it seems. So, perhaps Laral+ Kaladin has a chance. He does need to work a couple of things out first though.. cough fourth ideal...cough. Otherwise, that might not end well. If Laral were a Truthwatcher or Lightweaver that would be icing on the cake (we can dream right?)

[king of nowhere]

laral is a good woman. she cares about her community, she has at least that in common with kaladin. then again, i'm not sure she'd be ready to start a relationship just after her husband was murdered. and she may go for a political marriage anyway.

kaladin, on his side, need to work out his issues before being ready for a relationship. unless he's lucky enough to find one girl who could help him with those, but such people are rare. personally, i've seen/heard many instances of a lover trying to help hir mate through issues that are disrupting to the couple, and it very rarely ends well. kaladin needs a pshycologist, and before that he needs to realize he needs a pshycologist. and then he needs to worldhop on some more advanced world, because i doubt they have developed pshycology on roshar.

but all this is moot. what really sets me thinking on this coupling is trying to decide whether "kalaraldin" sounds cool or awkward

Edited August 27, 2020 by king of nowhere

[Tamara]

On 7/27/2020 at 7:18 PM, Subvisual Haze said:

Looking forward to Kal aggressively flirting with Laral over Roshone's still warm corpse.

Oh my goodness, that’s hilarious.

[Tamara]

I didn’t see it mentioned in the books but does Laral have kids? It seems a bit odd that she wouldn’t have had one or two in those 6(ish?) years she was married. Kaladin isn’t ready to be a father, if that’s even the case. I mean, he kinda has to save the world first. Not to mention the how PTSD and depression would effect that transition.

I wouldn’t mind some flirting or even some kissing between Laral and Kal but in the end I’d like to see Kaladin reject Laral. However great she is or isn’t, she’s boring and Kaladin would get board. All these girls, Laral and Lyn, I really think Kal would just get board with them eventually.  I’m still thinking there is a way for him and Syl to be together. She is a great balance of interesting and stable for him.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Tamara

[Tamara]

On 8/27/2020 at 11:37 AM, king of nowhere said:

kaladin, on his side, need to work out his issues before being ready for a relationship. unless he's lucky enough to find one girl who could help him with those, but such people are rare. personally, i've seen/heard many instances of a lover trying to help hir mate through issues that are disrupting to the couple, and it very rarely ends well. kaladin needs a pshycologist, and before that he needs to realize he needs a pshycologist. and then he needs to worldhop on some more advanced world, because i doubt they have developed pshycology on roshar.

My husband is an infantry officer and has deployed a couple times, he has PTSD and depression. We have a great relationship and a big part of why it works is me NOT trying to fix him and just supporting him and accepting his brokenness. In a lot of ways it’s hard for him but in more ways his issues have made him a stronger, better man. Surgebinder or not, we all break, and that’s the beauty of being human. I think Kal could do a relationship but it would have to be with someone greatly independent who didn’t try to fix him but just loved him as his is, broken and everything. Storms, I hope that’s not Laral.

[Crylorenzo he/him]

While I'm not sure if it will happen in this book or at all, there are bits of it that would make it satisfying

1. There is precedent/foreshadowing(if it happens)
              They were attracted to each other when younger.
              They have had repeat interactions where there is still A relationship (right now bad and lacking communication, but conflict
              is a fine place to start).
              As others have mentioned, both Lirin and Syl like her.
              Kaladin may say it "was never going to happen" but it's not an abnormal situation where two people who hate each other
              end up together
2. Laral has attributes for Kaladin similar to what Adolin has for Shallan
              Temperamentally they are actually similar - strong willed, stubborn, leaders, making the best of their situation, witty
              (and probably more)
              Laral has the potential to really understand Kaladin at a deeper level and recognize the true him.
              Laral has the potential to help Kaladin in the places where he needs to improve - understanding lighteyes and knowing he
               can't save everyone.

Now, will it happen, who knows? I think Sanderson treats his characters pretty accurately according to themselves, so the relationship we get I think will be earned.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Crylorenzo

[+robardin he/him]

18 hours ago, Tamara said:

My husband is an infantry officer and has deployed a couple times, he has PTSD and depression. We have a great relationship and a big part of why it works is me NOT trying to fix him and just supporting him and accepting his brokenness. In a lot of ways it’s hard for him but in more ways his issues have made him a stronger, better man. Surgebinder or not, we all break, and that’s the beauty of being human. I think Kal could do a relationship but it would have to be with someone greatly independent who didn’t try to fix him but just loved him as his is, broken and everything. Storms, I hope that’s not Laral.

Not advocating for the match specifically, but why wouldn't that description match Laral?

We have no idea what Laral feels or ever felt for Kaladin at a personal level, other than possibly a childhood crush kind of way. Her reaction to his comment in Oathbringer that he'd always imagined coming back and "saving her from this" (her marriage to Roshone) was full of independence, as was her distinct lack of awe in seeing him come back as a Shardbearer and thus of at least the fourth dahn. ("Shardbearer or not, another word like that and I'll have you thrown out of my house." Strong words from someone who had no Shards and would be hard pressed to literally throw a truly unwilling Shardbearer out of her house - but she also knows Kaladin would not resort to violence to defy such an order, and is really communicating how upset she is at his presumptive attitude.)

As for her trying to "fix" Kaladin, there's a difference between actively trying to mold or change him into something else "better", and supporting him by providing a stable base to lean on. She clearly resents it when someone does the first to herself, I don't think she's the type to then do that to others. As for the second kind of behavior, when we see how she carries herself and interacts with others in the singer-ruled Hearthstone in the early chapters of RoW, I think she's definitely exhibiting that, and in spades.

Oh, and Syl likes her.

Edited August 31, 2020 by robardin

[Tamara]

24 minutes ago, robardin said:

Not advocating for the match specifically, but why wouldn't that description match Laral?

I’m not saying it does or doesn’t match Laral. I just don’t like the girl. It more about me than her, she probably is a great, amazing person. I just don’t like her. That really is the base of my reasoning for it not being her. That, and she’s boring. 

[+robardin he/him]

21 minutes ago, Tamara said:

I’m not saying it does or doesn’t match Laral. I just don’t like the girl. It more about me than her, she probably is a great, amazing person. I just don’t like her. That really is the base of my reasoning for it not being her. That, and she’s boring. 

Well, what we saw of Laral in TWoK flashbacks were fairly flat because they were from a youthful Kaladin's POV, where she's largely a figure to try to impress, to feel betrayed by (when she goes along with Rillir's dismissal of Kaladin as a darkeyed child), or to rescue from a clearly mismatched marriage to a much older Roshone.

We've only glimpsed seeing an adult Laral as herself (as she would see/act herself) in two or three Hearthstone passages in Oathbringer and early RoW chapters. And I like what I see. Whether I like that as a match for Kaladin, I have actually no opinion on that - but I do find her evident strength of will and character admirable.

[dgreene196]

21 minutes ago, Tamara said:

I’m not saying it does or doesn’t match Laral. I just don’t like the girl. It more about me than her, she probably is a great, amazing person. I just don’t like her. That really is the base of my reasoning for it not being her. That, and she’s boring. 

I hadn't ever really consider Laral as boring.

To me, she's a bit of a black box.  We know about her from a young Kaladin's perspective, and, more recently, a few interactions with Kaladin and Lirin, where she seems to have some good qualities.  So we know a bit about her, but we don't really know her.  We know more about Gaz's thoughts than we do about her's.  And I'm not certain we'll ever get such a perspective.  From what we know now, a Laral interlude wouldn't necessarily advance the greater narrative in a meaningful way; I guess there could be a twist in there.

[+robardin he/him]

2 minutes ago, dgreene196 said:

I hadn't ever really consider Laral as boring.

To me, she's a bit of a black box.  We know about her from a young Kaladin's perspective, and, more recently, a few interactions with Kaladin and Lirin, where she seems to have some good qualities.

True, and yet to give @Tamara leeway, that doesn't mean she has to like her. I mean, you could say we've seen The Stump from Edgedancer show similar no-nonsense, stern-but-doing-good personality traits in Yeddaw. That doesn't mean you'd want to get into a relationship with her (or to root for a favorite character to do so)!

[I Am A Fish he/him]

Honestly,

I've been rooting for Karal for a while. I think that Laral would be empathetic enough to help carry the emotional deadweight that Kaladin has. While still staying strong. And the Laral we've seen seems like a pretty good fit for Kaladin. (Not to mention Syl likes her.)

[Robot]

Laral didn't give a single crap about Tien dying or Kal having slave marks when Kal got to see her again in OB. Instead she whined about her floor. Hard pass for me.

[king of nowhere]

45 minutes ago, Robot said:

Laral didn't give a single crap about Tien dying or Kal having slave marks when Kal got to see her again in OB. Instead she whined about her floor. Hard pass for me.

then again, neither tien nor slave marks were laral's responsibility, and there was no reason whatsoever for kaladin to cut the floor.

[Robot]

Yeah, she wasn't the one who sent his brother to his death or enslaved him, why should she care about it?

[Harbour he/him]

2 hours ago, Robot said:

Laral didn't give a single crap about Tien dying or Kal having slave marks when Kal got to see her again in OB. Instead she whined about her floor. Hard pass for me.

Big TRUE.

[+robardin he/him]

2 hours ago, Robot said:

Laral didn't give a single crap about Tien dying or Kal having slave marks when Kal got to see her again in OB. Instead she whined about her floor. Hard pass for me.

"I was sorry to hear about your brother." -- what else would she say about something she had no hand in, and from her POV was 4+ year old news?

And her not commenting on Kaladin's slave brands is actually a plus mark to me. Everybody else - the lighteyed and darkeyed guards alike, Roshone, even to some extent his own father, were like, deserter! With a shash! Dangerous! Killer on the loose! - Laral is focused on dealing with the people and their problems.

If you go back and read her "entrance" in Ch. 7 of Oathbringer, she meets Radiant Kaladin after walking in (and after hearing) what he says to Roshone about the Everstorm, the parshmen transforming into Voidbringers, and the necessity to build homes that slope in both directions. Roshone, already in shock, slumps down morosely; and then from behind him, Laral says, "We'll do it."

And then dresses him down for damaging her floor. This after he'd noticed with a bit of surprise that the guards who'd refused to fight him on Roshone's direct command, would not bring him maps from the study without the lady's approval.

"Whined?" Far from it. She is setting parameters as to who's in charge in her domain - her. That's how she got that respect from the guards and the people in the first place.

Yes, her first priority is not Kaladin's happiness or emotional well-being. That hardly makes her a bad person. It makes her a leader in her own right, the true leader of the people of Hearthstone. And what we see of Roshone (all too briefly) in RoW where he finally seems to be coming around to being one himself, is likely due to her influence, not Kaladin punching him in the face.

[Elena she/her]

I was very happy to find this topic! I also believe this may be the set-up for a romance (Brandon is many thing but an innovative romance writer he's not, and he does seem to have a fondness for 'first girl wins' type of scenarios). I'm tentatively enthusiastic about it if it means more Laral in the story, I've wanted more of her since Way of Kings, and I've always had a soft spot because of how much grief she got for siding with the family of her guardian / betrothed under whose roof she lived over the childhood friend she hadn't seen in years that one time. I see things aren't changed, and now her crime is whining about the floor.

Anyway, I really hope she has a bigger role going forward. Or if she isn't Kaladin's love interest, I hope whoever he ends up with is someone who doesn't automatically believe he's the greatest ever, as many around him seem to. 

[Adolinalsium he/him]

I think something could start to form or reform I should say. But that Laral will die and that will bring the fourth or fifth ideal for Kaladin. It could be his dad though it my theory could be wrong. But I do support that relationship. I didn't but now that they are adults Laral is okay and Kaladin needs get.

[Ramona Tehradin she/her]

3 hours ago, Adolinalsium said:

I think something could start to form or reform I should say. But that Laral will die and that will bring the fourth or fifth ideal for Kaladin. It could be his dad though it my theory could be wrong. But I do support that relationship. I didn't but now that they are adults Laral is okay and Kaladin needs get.

Spoiler

The Ideal has sailed and its not what you think. 

 

[LiftIRL]

I just really want to see Adolin and Laral interact. Like, can you imagine how eager Adolin will be to hear stories about what Kaladin was like as a kid and young teen, not just from a parent perspective, but, as a friend and from a vaugely-similar-age-as-him (adolin) perspective? the gossip potential... the teasing of Kaladin opportunities for both of the... and Laral would be like "HOW THE HELL DID YOU MAKE HIM CARE EVEN VAUGELY ABOUT FASHION. I SAW HIM THE OTHER DAY TALKING ABOUT THE TERRIBLE SUIT CUT THE HEADARSHAL OF ROION'S ARCHERS WORE IN THE LAST BALL. HOW DID YOU *DO* THAT"

[IndigoAjah he/him]

On 26/07/2020 at 5:27 PM, Karger said:

Welcome to the shard.  Kaladin says in response to Syl's "so that is the girl you were supposed to marry" that Laural was the person "he would never marry no matter what."

I'm not sure Kaladin is the best source on what Kaladin wants.

 

That's not sarcasm. That's just how messed up he is regarding anything he could possibly want or need.